jlemon

I'll take this opportunity to respond to several of the above questions as we watch the Gulf of Mexico quite closely here in Louisiana concerning the development of a possible hurricane during the next several days.....

4) I seem to recall that Northwest operated DC-10 service nonstop between LAX and SEA in the late 70's and early 80's, so that's my first choice. My second choice is a bit more problematic: National Airlines operated DC-10 service as well nonstop between LAX and SEA at one point in the late 70's. However, I believe NA was acquired by Pan Am in 1980 but I'm not sure exactly when in 1980! I also think that Pan Am operated B727-200 service (most likely with an ex-National 72S) nonstop LAX-SEA at one point during the early 80's. So it's probably either National or Pan Am. BTW, Alaska Air had yet to commence service between SEA and southern California at this time and when they did, AS initially went into BUR and ONT from SEA and PDX. Their LAX service came later.

5) Hmmmmmm......was it SAS that operated either a B747 or DC-10 between LAX and SEA as part of their polar route service from the west coast to Copenhagen and Scandinavia? And I'm not sure of the identity of the other carrier other than it was most likely a non-U.S. based airline......although it might have been Finnair with a DC-10 en route to Helsinki.

Seat 2A

Looks like I've missed out on all the excitement here on the web, and with very little free time this morning I'll just take a moment to say thanks to WHBM for his fine collection of questions. I hope I'll be available for the next round. In the meantime, I'll leave y'all with just one question until I can get home and whip up a few more:

Which airline offered the first commercial jet service jet service into Tampa-St. Petersburg-Clearwater International Airport, then known as the Pinellas International Airport (PIE)?

WHBM

I think you might be a bit muxed ip here, S2A. Tampa-St Pete-Clearwater (TPA), generally just called Tampa nowadays, is the one over the bay by Tampa, whereas St Pete-Clearwater (PIE) is between these two cities, nearer the Gulf. It still has a huge long north-south runway.

Very familiar to me because in the immediate pre- 9/11 days I used to go flying there with a great little outfit, and have banged round the various patterns there probably second only to my home base here (and stayed in seafront places at Clearwater Beach). You just don't get to do that at commercial airports in the UK. Nowadays it's impossible for us to come over and fly in the US, we're all regarded as dangerous foreigners. Shame. Although I did do a night landing there, missed my turnoff, and delayed a UPS DC8-73F from departure by about 30 seconds. Sorry guys !

Oh, first jet ? I think it was actually just as PIE was being closed up and everything transferred to the new TPA facility. Northwest, with one of their first Boeing 720Bs, operating Chicago-PIE-Miami, just for a short while. Presumably Eastern and national waited until Tampa was fully developed.

WHBM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jlemon

4) I seem to recall that Northwest operated DC-10 service ..... National Airlines operated DC-10 service as well nonstop between LAX and SEA

5) Hmmmmmm......was it SAS that operated either a B747 .

Well, over here in the UK, "It's Friday, it's 5 o'clock, and it's ........" no, unfair to do this to those from the US, you need to have a Good British Background from quite a few years ago to know how that one ends up

Good shots from jlemon here. Yes, it was Northwest and National, of all carriers, and with DC-10s, having a shot at LAX to Seattle in 1980 against the incumbents. Just once a day each. However did they hope to fill the aircraft with profitable business ? I'm aware Northwest had a reasonable customer and route base at Seattle in those days, but National ..... ?

Regarding the oddball operators, yes SAS was one of them, LAX to Seattle and thence to Copenhagen. It's not as out of the way as you might think, I've flown from London to LAX and come down overhead Spokane WA before, but still a long way with empty seats for those boarding in Seattle. The other flight, again a 747, turns exactly the opposite way - it was Thai International, heading onward for Tokyo and Bangkok.

jlemon

St. Petersburg Clearwater Intl. (PIE) is one of those interesting airports: just when you think it's dead with regard to airline service, it springs back to life again.

A number of airlines served PIE in the past including PeoplExpress with 72S and 737 service to Newark (EWR), Northeastern International with DC-8 and 727 service to Long Island MacArthur (ISP) and New Orleans (MSY), and Air Florida with Electra service to Miami (I think). American, Delta, Eastern and National all served PIE at one point or another as well.

And PIE is still very much alive these days: St. Pete Clearwater Intl. is a focus city for low cost operator Allegiant which operates MD-80 equipment nonstop to 25 different destinations in the midwestern and eastern U.S. from PIE, including such exotic locations as Allentown, PA; Bangor, ME; Huntington, WV; Roanoke, VA; Youngstown, OH; and Plattsburgh, NY (which just happens to be right down the freeway from Montreal, Quebec). Several other jet operators currently or seasonally provide service from PIE as well such as Vision Air, Air Transat and Sun Wing but not to the extent that Allegiant does.....

BTW, Allegiant (G4) got its start in Fresno (FAT) in 1998 and initially operated DC-9-21 and DC-9-51 equipment. The carrier is now based near LAS, operates ETOPS approved B757-200s (for their Hawaii service) in addition to the aforementioned MD-80s and is planning to introduce used A319s into their fleet. I do not think G4 has ever purchased a new airplane....

Seat 2A

You are quite correct, WHBM. I am a bit muxed ip! I'm so used to referring to the urban area as Tampa/St. Pete that I mistakenly included it in the title. The correct airport name, as you've indicated, is St. Petersburg - Clearwater International Airport, and yes, Northwest was the first airline to operate commercial jet flights into PIE. I shouldn't be surprised then that you should also know the flight was operated with a 720B. Excellent answer as always!

tonywestsider

Excellent answer, WHBM. You got me thinking that LAX-SEA must have been a codeshare corridor of some sort between SK and TG. I'm speculating that SK still had an investment stake in TG and used LAX-SEA as a trunk route for these two flights, one in the northwest direction by TG and the other in the northeast direction by SK, where both airlines used similar aircraft.

jlemon

I'll go ahead and answer this remaining question.....

The airline was Pan Am flying the Lockheed L1011-500, the long range version of the "Tristar" (L15). Here's the routing:

PA 417: SFO-LAX-CCS-GIG

This flight operated on Thursdays only, departing San Francisco at 10:45am and arriving at Caracas at 11:40pm. PA 417 then continued on to Rio De Janeiro, arriving the next morning at 7:15am.

jlemon

I'll take a guess at the last question posed by WHBM......

9) Air New Zealand flying AKL-PPT-LAX-LGW with B747 equipment.

WHBM

Sorry, not at all (airline nor aircraft). ANZ aircraft were coming to London at this time, not that you would ever know it from any timetable (that was covered in another question a few months ago). But the final destination airport you give is correct, which may give a clue.

Seat 2A

Well, it is 1980... any chance you might be flying from LA to Gatwick aboard one of Freddie Laker's DC-10s?

WHBM

Quite so, S2A, Those two flights from LAX were by Skytrain, the actual service name and title on the aircraft. Laker's name was confined to the tailfin
http://www.airliners.net/photo/Laker...1697d654798701

Skytrain was initially a no-reservations Transatlantic service, later this got changed a bit but the concept sort of remained, one class only for much of it's life, so they were not carrying any premium traffic. The DC-10s got used for quite a lot of holiday charters as well, which had been Laker's traditional market.

Seat 2A

After a week of sunshine and temperatures in the 60s, the last couple of days have been quite the opposite here in Alaska’s Interior with cold, misty rain and fresh snow along the mountain tops. What better time to enjoy time spent inside than by running a load of laundry while thumbing through the pages of the OAG to come up with a few questions.

Additionally, I’d like to extend all best wishes to our friends miniliq and jlemon and hope that they will not suffer any hardships from the impending storm Isaac, currently projected to hit landfall near New Orleans as a category 2 hurricane tomorrow evening.

The timeline for the following fifteen questions is the summer of 1968.

1. Following a week of fun and sun in the LA Basin, your services have been requested in Kingman, Arizona; but first you’ve been asked to join two colleagues for a luncheon meeting at Phoenix’s Sky Harbor airport. Identify the four airlines that operated nonstop flights between Los Angeles and Phoenix. Should you be so inclined, have a gander at the equipment used as well...

2. Later that afternoon, you’ll need to make a connection to this airline offering nonstop service from Phoenix up to Kingman, Arizona. Identify the airline and the aircraft used on this route.

3. You’ve boarded Santa Fe’s Super Chief for the overnight ride from Kingman to Los Angeles but flooding in Riverside County has damaged the tracks resulting in a delay that will cause you to miss your midday flight out of Los Angeles. Alighting from the train in San Bernardino, you catch a cab to the San Bernardino airport (JSB) where nonstop air transport is available to LAX with this company. Identify the airline and the aircraft used on this scheduled 32 minute flight.

4. Two airlines offer nonstop service between Los Angeles and Fresno. Only one of them offers jet service, though. Identify that airline and the aircraft used.

5. Southern Pacific’s San Joaquin Daylight delivers you to Oakland, California. Following two days of business meetings across the bay in San Francisco, you head out to SFO for your flight down to Long Beach. Only one airline offers nonstop service on this route, flying it twice a day with the same type of aircraft on both flights. You’ve chosen the evening flight, departing San Francisco at 7:30pm and arriving Long Beach at 8:47pm. Identify the airline and aircraft used.

6. Duty calls in Chattanooga, Tennessee. There are no direct flights between LAX and CHA, so you book an overnight flight aboard the only airline offering nonstop service between LAX and Memphis, connecting with the single daily nonstop flight between MEM and Chattanooga. Identify the airlines operating each route.

7. Identify the four airlines that operated nonstop service between Memphis and Little Rock, Arkansas. Should you so desire, take a stab at identifying the equipment used by each airline.

8. Now you’re in New Orleans and have to get up to Kansas City. Only one airline operates a single nonstop on this route. Luncheon is served in both classes. Upon arrival in Kansas City, you’ll enjoy a plate of excellent barbecued ribs at Gates & Sons. Identify the airline and the aircraft used on this route.

9. Your special talents are required in Fairbanks, Alaska. No airline serving Kansas City also serves Fairbanks. You’ll have to make an interline connection in Seattle. Only one airline provides service between Kansas City and Seattle, offering a single daily nonstop in addition to a 2-stop direct flight. You book a seat in First Class on the nonstop to Seattle, but are disappointed to learn that the only airline offering the two nonstop flights from Seattle to Fairbanks operates a single class aircraft on both flights. Name the airlines involved on this itinerary and – if you feel up to it – have a go at identifying the aircraft utilized on each route.

10. After returning to Seattle aboard the Alaska Marine Highway, you’ve decided to fly the 130 miles south to Portland. Seven airlines offer nonstop jet service on this route. Identify each of the seven airlines and, if you like, the jets used.

11. Only one airline provides Eugene, Oregon with jet service. Which airline and what kind of jet is it?

12. After laboriously checking page by page, I’ve confirmed that in 1968, only five scheduled airlines served the state of Utah. Name the airlines.

13. The only service between Milwaukee and Kansas City is limited to one direct (1-stop) flight each afternoon, departing Milwaukee at 4:30pm and arriving Kansas City at 6:05pm. A snack is served in both First Class and Coach. Name the airline and the aircraft used.

14. In the June 1, 1968 OAG, I’ve identified at least six scheduled U.S. airlines (There may be more) that still operated regularly scheduled DC-3 service. Can you identify them?

15. This airline operated two almost daily (X6, X7) jet flights from White Plains, New York to Washington National (DCA). Name the airline and the equipment.

cs57

9) MSY/Kansas City (1968) Braniff had #250, using BAC111 departing New Orleans at 12:15pm to Kansas City, with direct service to Omaha and MSP. (This from the BN timetable 7/1/68)

Seat 2A

Correct-a-mundo, cs57! I've flown aboard BAC-111s in the service of five separate airlines and none of them have sported a First Class cabin. Although I'd logged 18 flights by the time 1970 rolled around, I sure wish I were about twenty years older back then with the time and money to have flown aboard some of those great airliners and services of the 1960s.

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