Multiple Citizenship
Oct 24, 2011, 7:24 am
#121
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If you are born abroad and settle in the country of your citizenship there should be a way to classify your citizenship as "other than by descent" through registration some how. I am officially a UK citizen by descent (born abroad) but I think I can register as a citizen other than by descent if I go live in the UK again for a certain period of time. I don't have kids so it makes no difference to me so I haven't really done the research into this. They will know how you got your citizenship because of a) Your place of birth, clearly marked on your passport and b) Where your birth was registered, if it was registered at an overseas consulate you obviously obtained citizenship by descent.
If two parents both have non-transmissible foreign citizenship by descent and their child is born in a lex soli country other than the one of their citizenship ("easy countries", e.g. USA, Canada, etc.) the child should be solely a citizen of the country of their birth. If the child is born in a jus sanguinis country but the parents are legally resident in the country, most countries have a law which allows the child to become a citizen of that country regardless of their parents' nationality. Furthermore, almost every country has a law that allows children born in that country who would be stateless to become citizens of that country as a sort of a catch-all. If there are more complicated circumstances which the local laws do not recognise (e.g. parents are tourists in a country with very stringent nationality law), the parents would most likely have to appeal to their country's consulate for assistance. The laws limiting transfer of citizenship by descent are to prevent mass immigration of "returning citizens" and abuse of the system, not to ruin the lives of peoples' children. Every country frowns on statelessness, there will be some solution.
If two parents both have non-transmissible foreign citizenship by descent and their child is born in a lex soli country other than the one of their citizenship ("easy countries", e.g. USA, Canada, etc.) the child should be solely a citizen of the country of their birth. If the child is born in a jus sanguinis country but the parents are legally resident in the country, most countries have a law which allows the child to become a citizen of that country regardless of their parents' nationality. Furthermore, almost every country has a law that allows children born in that country who would be stateless to become citizens of that country as a sort of a catch-all. If there are more complicated circumstances which the local laws do not recognise (e.g. parents are tourists in a country with very stringent nationality law), the parents would most likely have to appeal to their country's consulate for assistance. The laws limiting transfer of citizenship by descent are to prevent mass immigration of "returning citizens" and abuse of the system, not to ruin the lives of peoples' children. Every country frowns on statelessness, there will be some solution.
Oct 24, 2011, 9:28 am
#122
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Sjoerd, any such numbers are bound to be flawed as there is no way that while the authorities might be able to make a fair statement of those that have two, it is almost impossible for them to know how many people have 3 or more.
Oct 24, 2011, 11:02 am
#123
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In fact, the countries with most visa-free travel are Denmark, Finland and Sweden. https://www.henleyglobal.com/citizen...-restrictions/
1 Denmark 173
1 Sweden 173
1 Finland 173
2 Germany 172
3 United Kingdom 171
3 Netherlands 171
...
5 United States 169
...
12 Malaysia 158
...
23 Israel 142
25 Brazil 140
...
Pretty crowded at the top there. And this quite obviously includes visa-on-arrival countries. OK, which country/territory can be visited visa-free form Denmark that cannot be from Germany? And which is the one that the UK misses out on compared to Germany? The US count is lower because of Cuba and N-Korea? Malaysia seems like the biggest surprise up there.
Oct 24, 2011, 11:28 am
#124
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Most of the kids in my expat HS have multiple passports. I think the most common was 3. I think only a small handful had only 1 passport. Many of them had rights to more, but after a while, it was more of a liability (tax and otherwise).
For example, there's the birth country passport, one from each grandparent through mum, then the same through dad. Of course if both parents were expats too, then there's also their birth country passports....
Generally, if you haven't served in any military, there's no problem with having multiple passports.
For example, there's the birth country passport, one from each grandparent through mum, then the same through dad. Of course if both parents were expats too, then there's also their birth country passports....
Generally, if you haven't served in any military, there's no problem with having multiple passports.
Oct 24, 2011, 12:13 pm
#125
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Most of the kids in my expat HS have multiple passports. I think the most common was 3. I think only a small handful had only 1 passport. Many of them had rights to more, but after a while, it was more of a liability (tax and otherwise).
For example, there's the birth country passport, one from each grandparent through mum, then the same through dad. Of course if both parents were expats too, then there's also their birth country passports....
Generally, if you haven't served in any military, there's no problem with having multiple passports.
For example, there's the birth country passport, one from each grandparent through mum, then the same through dad. Of course if both parents were expats too, then there's also their birth country passports....
Generally, if you haven't served in any military, there's no problem with having multiple passports.
Oct 24, 2011, 12:48 pm
#127
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Depends on where you arrive. A few weeks ago in MEX: KL, AF and LH arrived at about the same time. 1.5 hr wait for foreigners; Mexicans were long gone by then. On the other extreme are German airports. They do have lines for EU and non-EU citizens, but nobody gives damn, and nobody ever gets sent to the "correct" line.
Oct 24, 2011, 12:49 pm
#128
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In fact, the countries with most visa-free travel are Denmark, Finland and Sweden. https://www.henleyglobal.com/citizen...-restrictions/
Pretty crowded at the top there. And this quite obviously includes visa-on-arrival countries. OK, which country/territory can be visited visa-free form Denmark that cannot be from Germany? And which is the one that the UK misses out on compared to Germany? The US count is lower because of Cuba and N-Korea?
Yes - Malaysian citizens don't need Schengen visas prior to arrival. That's 27 countries right there.
Assuming, of course, that those grandparents had different citizenships, all of which could be relayed to their grandchildren... it's not as common as you might think.
Oct 24, 2011, 12:53 pm
#129
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FWIW, in the UK, if you're a non-EEA citizen, you can still show up at the EEA counter, they cannot actually send you away. They might not be happy about it and might ask you to wait until all EEA citizens have been processed, but they cannot make you go to another queue.
Oct 24, 2011, 1:02 pm
#130
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But otherwise your point is well taken.
Oct 24, 2011, 1:04 pm
#131
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There are a few issues with military service such as mandatory service that comes with a certain passport (Taiwan, Austria, Israel etc) but generally to serve in one military (i.e. to take the oath of service) is to basically choose one team and one team only. Some countries require a formal relinquishment of other citizenship in order to serve and will ignore the alternate citizenship rights of anyone who served in their own army. For example, if you served in country A, country A will forever view you as their own citizen regardless of any other citizenship you may hold, until the time you formally request (if possible) to relinquish citizenship of country A.
Also, if one serves in one army, it is harder for them to obtain other citizenships unless the citizenship of the country served is formally relinquished.
To further complicate the issue, some countries have a mandatory draft, and many countries offer citizenship in exchange for service. So it's more of a security issue. They don't want you to play for both sides if country A & country B were to engage in war with each other. You could turn around and shoot your own platoon and then do the same with the other side.
There are also special exceptions with Commonwealth countries and others with special immigration policies between certain countries.
Of course a lot of this has to do with whether one is truthful on the forms everyone fills out and whether they get caught in perjury etc....
Also, if one serves in one army, it is harder for them to obtain other citizenships unless the citizenship of the country served is formally relinquished.
To further complicate the issue, some countries have a mandatory draft, and many countries offer citizenship in exchange for service. So it's more of a security issue. They don't want you to play for both sides if country A & country B were to engage in war with each other. You could turn around and shoot your own platoon and then do the same with the other side.
There are also special exceptions with Commonwealth countries and others with special immigration policies between certain countries.
Of course a lot of this has to do with whether one is truthful on the forms everyone fills out and whether they get caught in perjury etc....
Oct 24, 2011, 1:09 pm
#132
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I think they can. The travel bans for hooli..., uh, unruly football fans haven't been challenged in the European Court of Justice yet AFAIK. Just one example. I'm sure there are others. You can also be expelled from an EU country even though you are the citizen of another EU country.
Oct 24, 2011, 1:13 pm
#133
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The UK has a history of trying to keep some EU-Schengen country nationals out. Sports hooligans included, but not just that. Some EU-Schengen countries have a history of trying to keep some EU-UK nationals out. Sports hooligans included, but not just that.
What will be interesting to see is what occurs if the ECJ ends up taking some such cases where there is a family reunification grounds that can be claimed by someone blocked out on grounds of hooliganism or something like that (perhaps even "unwelcome" speech/expression).
Military service, voluntary or perhaps otherwise, may be considered grounds in some countries to be an act of surrendering citizenship or of even being a traitor, depending on the circumstances. The reasons for this stance by some countries varies, but one of the reasons included is that some countries don't want their citizens waging war against another country without its citizens being authorized to do so by the relevant country/countries since it could create some headaches for the government(s).
What will be interesting to see is what occurs if the ECJ ends up taking some such cases where there is a family reunification grounds that can be claimed by someone blocked out on grounds of hooliganism or something like that (perhaps even "unwelcome" speech/expression).
Military service, voluntary or perhaps otherwise, may be considered grounds in some countries to be an act of surrendering citizenship or of even being a traitor, depending on the circumstances. The reasons for this stance by some countries varies, but one of the reasons included is that some countries don't want their citizens waging war against another country without its citizens being authorized to do so by the relevant country/countries since it could create some headaches for the government(s).
Oct 24, 2011, 1:16 pm
#134
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A college buddy of mine had 4 or 5: Swiss, Canadian, US, Moroccan, and perhaps Israeli too, I can't recall for sure. I do know that he had to do time in the Swiss army before he started college, apparently all Swiss people have to do it. He considered himself Swiss though.
I myself have 2 passports, and many people that I know have at least 2 or 3. It's very common for people of diverse ethnic backgrounds. Go to any college and I'm sure a big chunk of international students will have multiple passports.
The main benefit is ability to live and travel in various locals, without the headache of applying for visas, work permits, and resident permits. You don't really get any "free" governments services unless you pay tax in the respective country.
I myself have 2 passports, and many people that I know have at least 2 or 3. It's very common for people of diverse ethnic backgrounds. Go to any college and I'm sure a big chunk of international students will have multiple passports.
The main benefit is ability to live and travel in various locals, without the headache of applying for visas, work permits, and resident permits. You don't really get any "free" governments services unless you pay tax in the respective country.
Oct 24, 2011, 1:26 pm
#135
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Originally Posted by ajax
Assuming, of course, that those grandparents had different citizenships, all of which could be relayed to their grandchildren... it's not as common as you might think.