Yup, similar in terms of hours, lots of people work far less (they also have the EU Working Time Directive to comply with these days too!)

I understand, most of the veteran servers at my restaurant actually overtip the bussers just so that their tables would be cleaned first. Usually the rookies, would be the ones to stiff/shortchange the busser, not knowing that they were actually costing themselves money in the long run.

As for the tipping system, everyone has their opinions and I nor anyone else will never be able to change the opinions of emma, nevertipneverwill, or pilot mechanic. All I can do is describe the system that servers work under and hopefully point out the major fallacies of the non-tippers ideology ie; tipping isn't needed, if I don't tip then it will improve service and/or get servers hourly wages to rise etc.

All I can tell you is that for the 5 years that I worked my way through school 100% of the money I earned for living expenses and other essential items was 100% based on the generosity of the patrons that I waited on.

Waiting was the best option for me because it allowed me to have a flexible schedule to handle my class load, and allowed me to work extra or give away shifts when necessary. Not to mention how difficult is to find a job that pays much above minimum wage until you get some experience in your field of study.

I agree; it's her or his money.

The servers' choice to do so?

We should tip because the bathroom is clean? It must be clean by law. The chef should get a tip too? Chefs are paid minimum wage?

Often, we see better service in smaller restaurants. I wonder if it has to do with the server getting to keep her tip in its entirety instead of being forced to share her tip with servers who are lazy.

One thing I don't think you clarified: Do the servers pool their tips together or is the cut for the bus boy and other support staff taken from each server's tip separately so that the lazy servers aren't making the same tips as those servers who are better and thus earn more?

I can agree with that only if the lazy aren't sharing in the spoils of those who work extra hard to get the larger tips.

I tip extra when I get great service from the server. I don't tip more because the bathroom is stocked with toilet paper. It's a personal decision to tip 20% or more based on the personality, talent, and efficiency of the server. Great ones get higher tips. So do the lazier servers share in the same tips of the better servers whose tips are more?

This has been very informative. The next time we get a top-knotch server who goes above and beyond, we will want to tip him directly. We'll give him a CASH tip and tell him that it's for him and him alone because we appreciate his service. So that he doesn't get in trouble, we'll tell the manager what we're doing so she can know what a great employee she has and so she knows that we want the server to keep the tip for a service well done. It would be pretty stupid for a manager to tell customers that they can't do that assuming they want return business. It's very hard to be a server; they have to deal with all kinds of personalities at the tables. They are on the front line and they deserve the money at least from this customer's point of view.

I will of course ask first if tips are pooled. It would be worse if the tips are divided equally among all servers IMO.

You just reminded me of my least favourite restaurant practice. Sometimes I go for late lunches, and order my meal, am served, but have not yet ordered pudding or coffee when the waiter plonks down the bill and tells me if is because their shift is finishing. I am afraid that is not MY problem, and I will pay the bill at the end of the meal as normal, when I have finished my food and drink. If it is an issue, they should speak to the server taking over the table, and make an agreement to split the tip between themselves (50-50 or whatever way they deem fair). How blooming rude is it to say 'hey, yeh, I'm done I want my money, stuff the fact you are still in the middle of your meal'. Or is that just me, and everyone else thinks that is normal / correct?

Hate that too!

That would be an immediate reason to plummet the tip. I don't think I've experienced being told something like that. We've been introduced to another server who will be serving our table which I assumed was because of a shift change. We've certainly been introduced to the new bartender at a shift change!

@ Analise

I have never heard of a actual restaurant that pools their tips between other servers. So that is a non-issue.

As far as tipping out I am afraid that you can't control that. As much as you might like to. Servers tip-out because others provide service that the server doesn't have time to (cleaning tables/making bar drinks). I wouldn't tip more or less based on restroom cleanliness that is more just good business/the law. The only restaurants I know that servers tip out hostess are ones where the hostess provides a service to the waitstaff other than seating (rolling silverware or taking to-go orders)

@Emma

Interesting point, and I think it does depend a bit on where you are at in the meal. Sometimes, a manager is the one telling the server to get off the clock and we can't clock out if we have open checks. Usually I just pass over the tab to the waiter coming in or wait until the guest is finished... unless of course they have been camping out for a while then I may say something.

Good to know. Thanks for clearing that up.

I understand that from your explanation above and from QueenOfCoach. Well, if it's a cash tip, I hope a top-knotch server keeps the extra part for herself. Can't track cash so that's advantageous for a great server.

As I said, there are various levels of experience. At a really great restaurant, you get superior food, superior service and really really tidy restrooms. You should tip accordingly. (I still remember the really nice restrooms at Pebble Beach.)

At a "regular" restaurant, you get good service, good food and decent restrooms. Tip the usual 15%.

Again, what happens to the money after it passes from your hands to that of the servers is not your business. It is the server's money to do with what they want. If part of that money goes to the bussers or the cooks, that's none of your business.

Great, you can hope. You have no actual control over where the money ends up. If a server gets a reputation for being chintzy with the tip-outs, guess whose food will be lukewarm and slow, guess whose tables won't get bussed and guess whose drinks will be watery.

A truly top-notch server would probably be extra generous with the tip-outs, just so they can continue to provide top-notch service to the customers. Hot food, timely, efficient service, fast table bussing and great drinks.

You don't necessarily get superior service at an expensive restaurant. You get more expensive food. One tips for the service one receives.

You don't necessarily get "regular" service at what you deem as a regular restaurant. I have found some of the best service to be gotten at small family restaurants, coffee shops, and inexpensive holes in the wall (or is it holes in the walls?). Regardless of the menu prices, we tip ~15% for average service and more as it gets better.

If we go out for breakfast at a coffee shop, we overtip because 15-20% is peanuts.

As for bathrooms, I don't analyze them as you do. As long as they are clean and have toilet paper, soap, and paper towels or those super-blast dryers, that works. That is also to be expected; if not, we won't return there again. NYC is getting serious about making sure restaurants are clean (the entire restaurant) as they are now being graded A, B, or C which are posted on the windows. C is failure. Restaurants with C's must get a better grade or suffer the consequences from the City of New York.

Ohhh, so they can choose to keep their entire tip since, as you said, it's the servers' money. The decision to share part of the tip is the for the servers alone to make, is that correct? I believe I've asked that question already.

I'll be asking the waiters and bartenders we see this weekend. I'll then ask how patrons can tip them and them alone. It's not my job to pay for behind-the-scenes employees. That belongs to the restaurant management. Even if we use the credit card for the check, we will tip cash.

with regards to tipping, i'd say I am more of a chintzy tipper than a good/generous tipper

typically in that 13-15% range for avg to above avg service

real good service might be 18% which is probably as high as I'd ever ever go

on that note

this thread makes me want to tip even less

1. I have no desire to have my tip to the server spread out.. its still my money at this point hence I don't want to give it out

2. its not my problem how they are paid, its not my problem that a server has chosen that profession but somehow they did

3. i don't buy the it costs me money if I don't tip.. maybe if you have one customer and that one tips you zero.. even then, there are ways around paying taxes

4. maybe its just a few people on this thread but this hand always out appearance just rubs me the wrong way

5. tipping is one of the major reasons I do not eat out if I don't have too

6. why I eat at the bar.. I don't tip as much there either..

changing the subject to hotels

while I'm at it.. I hate the hands out FS hotels.. every time you turn around, someone wants a five spot.. I've used a bellman once in the last 10+ years just b/c I hate the tipping.. room service.. the prices are high enough then you pay 18% to have them wheel it up to your room and the add a $X service charge.. I don't think so.. an all of this is when I'm not paying for it.. I just hate the whole concept of it so I just try to participate as little as possible by eating at places where I don't have to tip

It's your problem in the sense that you are deliberately exploiting their decision for your own gain and at their expense, and it is ultimately your action that deprives them of pay. If you are a proponent of personal responsibility and accountability, as I am and as you seem to be, then you must acknowledge that while the server is at fault for working in an unfair industry, you are at fault for exploiting that unfairness by directly depriving them of their expected pay. Sure, maybe it's unfair that the employer put you in that position to begin with... nevertheless, you must accept that you are exploiting that unfairness.

Out of curiosity, do you apply this same philosophy to everything? For example, do you feel that Board of Health regulations regarding restaurant sanitation should be dissolved, because if customers get sick, it's due to their own decisions to eat at unsanitary restaurants? Do you feel that OSHA and Worker's Comp regulations should be dissolved because if employees get injured, it's because of their own decisions to work at places with unsafe conditions? Yes, these are hyperbolic questions... but I'm curious as to whether you follow the logic of complete personal responsibility to these inevitable ends.

Isn't that exactly what you're doing now? You already know exactly what you're getting into, and you have even more control over things, because you can choose after the fact to pay more or less depending on your perceived quality of food and service. If tips were banned and prices raised, you would have less control after the fact.

You're not going to know any better whether you will receive good service or not if tips were banned and prices raised. You're not going to know any better what price you will pay, because you can already know what price you'll pay. The difference is pure semantics.

Technically, then, it's not your job to pay for any of the employees... why do you support tipping at all, in that case?

Because someone served us directly. Someone took our order, made sure that we had full glasses of ice water, stopped by to see if we needed anything once our order was served, timed the serving of food, fixed the problem if the kitchen made a mistake....that is all direct service to us. That gets a tip.

I tip the manicurist who does my nails for the very same reason. She doesn't pool her tips with those who clean the salon, wash the towels, or refill the lotions. She performs the service of giving manicures; she gets the full tips and she alone.

Then stay away from full-service hotels. Full-service means tipping. Try a Courtyard by Marriott.