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-   -   Avoiding tipping? (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/travelbuzz/1167499-avoiding-tipping.html)

rofly Jan 5, 2011 1:15 pm


Originally Posted by Analise (Post 15589313)
I'm absolutely astonished that this practice is legal. I'm guessing that it is because your tips are underestimated like you said above, why would you or anyone else complain about this practice?

If the average estimate of tips were actually more than what people take home and there were enough people penalized by such an overestimation, I would guess that trial lawyers would come around to suing the federal, state and local gov'ts for taxing on income never actually earned but rather "estimated" to be earned thus overtaxing people.

Thank you for sharing this.

Well, I have not heard any servers on this thread complaining about the IRS calculating more tip income than they actually received. My guess is that's because that is not what is happening. The people 'complaining' mean well but do not have first-hand knowledge of how tips are reported. Let me state again that tips may be calculated differently by different establishments, but it is common knowledge that waiting tables in the U.S. is a well-paying job (considering it requires no formal education and the alternative is working for minimum wage).

Even though servers make a decent amount of money and one non-tipper per night will not destroy a server's earnings, not tipping is the crappy thing to do when it is absolutely the custom of this land.

rofly Jan 5, 2011 1:18 pm

To me it's simple. Hotel staff make minimum wage or above. Servers make ~1/3 of minimum wage, which is why I tip them while I don't tip hotel staff unless I've made a mess.

WCT3U Jan 5, 2011 1:48 pm


Originally Posted by rjw242 (Post 15582497)
And it's funny how disconnected from reality that underlying notion has become - here an author/waiter claims (with studies to back him up) that tipping is often uncorrelated with quality of service, having more to do with how well the waiter reads the customer and how the customer wants to be treated (whether with friendliness, aloofness, sarcasm, etc.).

(emphasis added)

It's an interesting article, but I'm confused about what is and isn't included in quality of service. From the article:


A good waiter adapts to every personality. There are people who like the archly reserved waiter, ones who like someone who will kid them a bit and give them a slightly hard time. Others who like the joke waiter, the entertainer.

But the thing that's always amazed me is that the quality of service has almost no effect on tipping.
I read it as saying (and I'd agree) that adapting to personality is a component of quality of service. Of course I don't know anything about it, but I'd also guess that the diner near your house does offer good, although unconventional, service to its clientele. If it truly had poor service, it would be out of business.

beta1607 Jan 5, 2011 1:59 pm


Originally Posted by rofly (Post 15589949)
To me it's simple. Hotel staff make minimum wage or above. Servers make ~1/3 of minimum wage, which is why I tip them while I don't tip hotel staff unless I've made a mess.

This is an over generalization, in California and several other states restaurants are required to pay servers the full minimum wage.

SFflyer123 Jan 5, 2011 2:35 pm

Wow
 

Originally Posted by jfhscott (Post 15589891)
Will all admissions, this thread has gone horribly OT.

There is so much hostility and anger on this thread... :eek:

cepheid Jan 5, 2011 3:28 pm


Originally Posted by Analise (Post 15587299)
Is there a special W2 form, for waiters to submit to the IRS, geared specifically for the restaurant industry that has the restaurant populate on the form what the gross sales were (or is it net?) for the entire year at that particular restaurant or chain of restaurants?

A 5-second search for "tips" on www.irs.gov reveals this page, among many others:

http://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc761.html

It's usually helpful to go to the source when asking such specific questions, rather than asking a nebulous population for anecdotes. The IRS website actually has many "user-friendly" pages that explain certain aspects of the tax code in layman's terms fairly well.


Originally Posted by Analise (Post 15589032)
Did the restaurant's estimate of the amount of money they think you earned in tips using a formula show up in black and white as your reported income on your annual W2 from them?

Again, from the IRS website, tips - whether actual or allocated - are included in box 1 of the W-2: "Wages, tips, other compensation."


Originally Posted by Analise (Post 15589313)
I'm absolutely astonished that this practice is legal.

It is not only legal, it is law - as in, it's not just allowed, it's required. The reason few people complain is that allocated tips are only 8%, while average actual tips are generally much higher... unless, of course, a large fraction of customers decide to stop tipping.

Captain Schmidt Jan 5, 2011 3:33 pm


Originally Posted by beta1607 (Post 15590295)
This is an over generalization, in California and several other states restaurants are required to pay servers the full minimum wage.

and as per my earlier link to the DoL web-site, federal law also requires employers to ensure that all wait staff are paid at least minimum wage including tips and must make up the difference in cases where they don't.

rofly Jan 5, 2011 3:45 pm


Originally Posted by beta1607 (Post 15590295)
This is an over generalization, in California and several other states restaurants are required to pay servers the full minimum wage.

Of the 50 states in the U.S., only 4 mandate minimum wage at least equal to federal minimum wage ($7.25) for all workers: Alaska, California, Oregon, and Washington (maybe Nevada). In the rest of the states, hourly wages start at $2.13/hour but can be higher.

http://www.dol.gov/whd/state/tipped.htm

pinniped Jan 5, 2011 4:00 pm

So I have to wonder...

...where and when did tipping begin? Did it begin with restaurant waitstaff, bartenders, or elsewhere? Was there a transition period when it seemed like an unsavory bribe - something you weren't sure whether to offer or whether it would be accepted?

Did people originally do it in order to obtain better service? Did they do it because they felt that a labor market was being artificially manipulated by an external power? (e.g., Compassion for workers in some sort of indentured servitude or other forced labor relationship.) Some other reason?

And how does tipping make the leap into new professions? 15 years ago, the thought had never crossed my mind to tip a hotel housekeeper. In my time reading FT, I've now read about the concept but it seems like a minority actually do it. 50 years from now, will we all be tipping housekeepers as a cultural norm?

Understanding the answers to these questions might be important in some countries where tipping seems to be encroaching...

Captain Schmidt Jan 5, 2011 4:06 pm


Originally Posted by pinniped (Post 15591179)
So I have to wonder...

...where and when did tipping begin? Did it begin with restaurant waitstaff, bartenders, or elsewhere? Was there a transition period when it seemed like an unsavory bribe

The Singapore government still believes that to be the case and has been at great pains to stamp out the practice in the country.

Scanner Lady Nancy Jan 5, 2011 4:26 pm

When I was 18 and in high school, I was a waitress at a Pizza Inn for a few months. Back then, regular minimum wage was $3-something and wait staff minimum wage was $2.09/hr. The regular minimum wage today is way too high, but that's another topic.

I always reported my cash tips. Under-reporting is tax evasion, and I don't do that.

I didn't like working there because the place was so slow. One week, the restaurant had to add money to my paycheck because the $2.09+tips was still less than regular minimum wage.

I hate the tipping culture and wish it would go away, but at the moment we're stuck with it. When I go to a restaurant, I usually tip exactly 15%, or zero if the service is poor. I don't do complicated calculations, and I certainly don't consider the employee's personal tax situation.

BamaVol Jan 5, 2011 7:40 pm


Originally Posted by Captain Schmidt (Post 15590985)
and as per my earlier link to the DoL web-site, federal law also requires employers to ensure that all wait staff are paid at least minimum wage including tips and must make up the difference in cases where they don't.

I don't know if it's law, but when I worked at Radio Shack for commission, if my commissions didn't add up to minimum wage, the company made up the difference. Too many weeks of making up the difference and you were let go. The alternative was to under-report hours, which I saw frequently.

BamaVol Jan 5, 2011 7:45 pm


Originally Posted by User Name (Post 15588852)
Is this just a rant in general or is it directed at someone's post specifically? Because it has nothing whatsoever to do with the original post in this thread.

It's a rant in response to the other responses that are off-topic, as so often happens when the subject of tipping comes up on FT.

On topic; do everything yourself, and you'll not be obliged to tip at all. Cut your own hair, refuse housekeeping and just ask for fresh towels, eat at home or fast food, take no taxis, use no tour guides, handle your own bags, take your own groceries to the car, buy your newspaper from a box and park your own car.

Rejuvenated Jan 5, 2011 11:13 pm

During the times we don't feel like we want to pay tips while dining either we 1) eat at fast food places/joints in a mall food court that don't require waiter/waitress service or 2) eat at home.

wanaflyforless Jan 6, 2011 12:31 am


Originally Posted by Mr H (Post 15578149)
I avoid tipping by not going to USA. Simples.

I sometimes wish I had that option. :D ;)


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