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Originally Posted by belfordrocks
(Post 15579400)
+1
It is a compliment not a contribution to one's wages. |
Originally Posted by Analise
(Post 15579487)
Tips are taxable income.
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Originally Posted by tourist
(Post 15579546)
AFAIK, only in North America are taxes calculated on presumed tips.
Some of you might not think that it's necessary to tip, but it is actually expected, not just by the waiter or bartender, but by the US government. The servers and bartenders are expected to declare tips, based on their sales, WHETHER OR NOT YOU TIP them. Depending on the situation, it's at least 8% of sales, but in many cases, it's expcected that the tip will be the average of what credit card tips (the only ones that can be verified) are. The IRS has gotten a lot more careful in how they look at tipped employees, and most now declare most or all of what they make. And with credit cards becoming the vast majority of sales in restaurants and more and more bars, tipped emplyees must actually declare all of their tips. Whether or not you actually tip them, they will have to declare that you did, and pay taxes on it. That comes to about 1/3 of what you should have tipped, but didn't. So, please understand that if you use the services of the waiter or bartender and don't tip them, that you are actually COSTING them money. Is that fair? As for complaining that it's not fair that you have to pay for their salary because they're underpaid, that may be true. But the savings comes out of the price of food and drinks. In Europe tips are generally not expected in restauarnts and bars. But the servers and bartenders get a LOT more in wages than they do here. That extra cost is passed on to the customer in the form of higher prices for food and drinks. If the US were to switch to not tipping servers and bartenders, prices would go up dramatically on food and drinks because the businesses would suddenly have much higher payrolls to cover -- and not just for servers and bartenders. Bussers, barbacks, food runners and others often don't get full minimum wage either. All of their increased wages would go into the prices of the food and drinks. Waiters in most US states make less than $3 per hour. That's significantly lower than the minimum wage. That's because it is expected by the government that they will make tips to augment that salary. For better or for worse, tipping is not optional, unless the service was truly poor. Well, unless you're a complete jerk and don't mind that the bartender or waiter is effectively paying YOU for serving them. |
Originally Posted by belfordrocks
(Post 15579400)
+1
It is a compliment not a contribution to one's wages. It is expected by the US government that tips are the majority of one's wages. That is why tipped employees are generally not paid the legally required minimum wage. It is expected that the customer's tips will make up the difference. Waiters make 2.63 per hour in most states in the US, which is less than a third of the mimimum wage. Could you live on $105 per week? No, which is why the minimum wage is so much higher. In fact, few waiters even see a paycheck, because our wages don't even cover our taxes and insurance. I have to pay several thousand dollars per year in taxes beyond my paycheck. (I actually just figured out my taxes for this year yeasterday!) |
Originally Posted by davidhhh
(Post 15579766)
...few waiters even see a paycheck, because our wages don't even cover our taxes and insurance. I have to pay several thousand dollars per year in taxes beyond my paycheck.
Tipping hawks and overseas visitors who withhold tips obviously have never lived within our system themselves. |
IIRC and I'll say its been a few years since I was doing taxes for others but I believe you can get around that 8% rule if you can prove that you did not receive any tips or something less than 8%.
if you work at a place that does not allow tipping and you can prove it, you do not pay taxes on those wages |
Originally Posted by davidhhh
(Post 15579725)
So, please understand that if you use the services of the waiter or bartender and don't tip them, that you are actually COSTING them money. Is that fair?
Originally Posted by davidhhh
(Post 15579766)
It is expected by the US government that tips are the majority of one's wages. That is why tipped employees are generally not paid the legally required minimum wage. It is expected that the customer's tips will make up the difference.
However, if there is a law stating that I HAVE TO give tip, then of course I'm not going to break it. I'll just tip the minimum required by law. Please show me that government law. I really don't care at all if the waiter is loosing money because if I don't tip. Again, not my problem. The waiter can choose another job if she doesn't like it. And if she is being rude due to not tipping, I know not to visit that particular joint anymore. Easy:p I guess no need to link the "I don't believe in tipping" video? :D |
Originally Posted by nevertipneverwill
(Post 15580833)
However, if there is a law stating that I HAVE TO give tip, then of course I'm not going to break it. I'll just tip the minimum required by law. Please show me that government law.
Oh, welcome to FT. |
but simply that categorically refusing to tip waiters in this country (USA) is a jerk move. You may not like the system we have here, you may dispute the legality of putting only part of the price of the meal on the menu, you may feel the system should change. All valid points, but the fact remains that if you stiff someone whose livlihood depends on tips, you can't complain when people call you a big jerk. If I were to witness such behavior, in the US, I would indeed call that person a big jerk to their face. I often host visitors from Europe and I impress upon them the necessity of leaving a decent tip in situations where it is customary and expected. Similarly, I don't go to Europe or Australia or wherever and complain, to all within earshot, how their society could be improved by becoming more like the US. |
Originally Posted by QueenOfCoach
(Post 15581380)
I agree fully.
You may not like the system we have here, you may dispute the legality of putting only part of the price of the meal on the menu, you may feel the system should change. All valid points, but the fact remains that if you stiff someone whose livlihood depends on tips, you can't complain when people call you a big jerk. If I were to witness such behavior, in the US, I would indeed call that person a big jerk to their face. I often host visitors from Europe and I impress upon them the necessity of leaving a decent tip in situations where it is customary and expected. Similarly, I don't go to Europe or Australia or wherever and complain, to all within earshot, how their society could be improved by becoming more like the US. I often wonder why Americans cling so fiercely to the tipping culture, and why a more socially responsible system is not in place. Can anyone enlighten me? |
Originally Posted by PeteTheBrit
(Post 15581644)
I often wonder why Americans cling so fiercely to the tipping culture, and why a more socially responsible system is not in place. Can anyone enlighten me?
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Originally Posted by PeteTheBrit
(Post 15581644)
why a more socially responsible system is not in place.
(Hey guys, we love you and your wonderfully large and diverse country anyway, we just think you are a little weird when it comes to tipping, guns, and the political obsession with reproductive matters! :D) |
I don't care what the US government thinks or expects in this area. If these "independent contractors" don't like the rules or the wages then it is time to move on to a better job more in line with their capabilities and expectations.
I would be happy to see all tipping banned by law, and a livable wage paid to those workers instead. Not all waiters make $2.13 an hour. I believe in California they are still subject to the CA minimum wage law, which is higher than the Federal minimum wage. |
Originally Posted by planemechanic
(Post 15582003)
I don't care what the US government thinks or expects in this area. If these "independent contractors" don't like the rules or the wages then it is time to move on to a better job more in line with their capabilities and expectations.
I would be happy to see all tipping banned by law, and a livable wage paid to those workers instead. Not all waiters make $2.13 an hour. I believe in California they are still subject to the CA minimum wage law, which is higher than the Federal minimum wage. |
Originally Posted by PeteTheBrit
(Post 15581644)
It would make things more comfortable for everyone if tips did not form such a crucial part of the wage of waiter/waitress. They will be able to safely predict their earnings over a period affording them stability.
I often wonder why Americans cling so fiercely to the tipping culture, and why a more socially responsible system is not in place. Can anyone enlighten me? At the end of the day it's a cultural/societal norm, the merits of which are debatable. I think this is a situation where common sense should prevail, even if you find the practice objectionable bite the bullet during your travels and do like the locals. |
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