Avoiding tipping?
 

How do you avoid services that need tipping? For example when at hotels I carry my own bags and avoid using room service.

I hardly ever carry small cash (or any cash) so I hate the scramble for singles or fives at the end of a tip-required interaction, as with bellhops or valet parking. I don't mind tipping for room service, dining, bar, etc. if I can add the sum to the tab, but I don't like having to keep money in my wallet. I do avoid bellhops and valet for this reason and would rather carry my own bags and park my own car anyway.

:) I do everything I can to avoid giving a tip, so that when I do have to tip I can feel comfortable giving a good tip.:)

eat at home or from convenience stores.....

It sounds like you in fact do know what to do.

Think about what services are done by professionals and then do them yourself. No restaurants (at best a cafeteria) and no taxis. Drive or take public transportation. If you travel, stay at B&Bs in which the owners themselves clean the room. Learn to cut, style and/or color your own hair. If not you, then ask a family member to do it or else make sure that the owner of the barber/hairdresser is the one who does all of the work including shampooing if that is part of the service. Shine your shoes. What else....

I'm not sure why but I feel comfortable giving tips in restaurants but hate other people carrying my bags :rolleyes:

Because a restaurant is an experience that you can't easily recreate by yourself (usually). Someone carrying your bags is simply brute labor and in many cases isn't saving you any real hassle.

I'm also totally fine with restaurant tipping (and rather generous with it), but don't like tipping for bellhops/skycaps/etc. either, and will therefore avoid their services unless I really need them (i.e. if I have more bags than I can reasonably carry on my own). Of course, if I do use them, I'll tip appropriately, but I prefer to simply avoid them instead. :)

I avoid tipping by not going to USA. Simples.

if I can do it myself, I do - especially the bags; i do not use the skycaps either.. very few exceptions why I would and then when they started mandatory charges, I won't even look at them

I don't tip the hotel/car rental shuttle driver if he/she doesn't touch my bags

some places you just tip.. restaurant where served or cabs and there really isn't anyway around it or bartenders

I never understood why its customary to give a hair cutter a tip. they are paid more than min wage.. for me.. its a 15 minute job tops. In the end they get 2 bucks from me

Simple. Remembering a simple fact. Nothing requires tipping.
A tip is not something you deserve. It is something that is earned. You do not earn a tip just because you have a job with crappy pay.

+1 I hate dealing with cash but don't mind tipping in restaurants when I add it to the bill and pay with my credit card. We use those carry-on Motherlode convertible backpacks so it would be ridiculous for a bellhop to grab them off our backs!

I don't tip (even in NYC :p) unless I have received what I consider to be an outstanding service. Otherwise what's the point of tipping?

Excellent solution.

Those working in service industries who work hard to provide good service are grateful for that! Simples. :)

+1

It is a compliment not a contribution to one's wages.

It is both. Tips are taxable income. Whether they are declared is for the IRS to investigate. I certainly won't tip or might leave something very low to show disgust over poor service. But that's quite rare. If waiters, for example, do their jobs or even deliver better service than just average, you have to tip here in the US.

AFAIK, only in North America are taxes calculated on presumed tips.

And it is important to remember that taxes ARE calculated on presumed tips, at least in restaurants and bars.

Some of you might not think that it's necessary to tip, but it is actually expected, not just by the waiter or bartender, but by the US government.

The servers and bartenders are expected to declare tips, based on their sales, WHETHER OR NOT YOU TIP them. Depending on the situation, it's at least 8% of sales, but in many cases, it's expcected that the tip will be the average of what credit card tips (the only ones that can be verified) are. The IRS has gotten a lot more careful in how they look at tipped employees, and most now declare most or all of what they make. And with credit cards becoming the vast majority of sales in restaurants and more and more bars, tipped emplyees must actually declare all of their tips.

Whether or not you actually tip them, they will have to declare that you did, and pay taxes on it. That comes to about 1/3 of what you should have tipped, but didn't.

So, please understand that if you use the services of the waiter or bartender and don't tip them, that you are actually COSTING them money. Is that fair?

As for complaining that it's not fair that you have to pay for their salary because they're underpaid, that may be true. But the savings comes out of the price of food and drinks. In Europe tips are generally not expected in restauarnts and bars. But the servers and bartenders get a LOT more in wages than they do here. That extra cost is passed on to the customer in the form of higher prices for food and drinks. If the US were to switch to not tipping servers and bartenders, prices would go up dramatically on food and drinks because the businesses would suddenly have much higher payrolls to cover -- and not just for servers and bartenders. Bussers, barbacks, food runners and others often don't get full minimum wage either. All of their increased wages would go into the prices of the food and drinks.

Waiters in most US states make less than $3 per hour. That's significantly lower than the minimum wage. That's because it is expected by the government that they will make tips to augment that salary.

For better or for worse, tipping is not optional, unless the service was truly poor. Well, unless you're a complete jerk and don't mind that the bartender or waiter is effectively paying YOU for serving them.

Actually, you're incorrect.

It is expected by the US government that tips are the majority of one's wages. That is why tipped employees are generally not paid the legally required minimum wage. It is expected that the customer's tips will make up the difference.

Waiters make 2.63 per hour in most states in the US, which is less than a third of the mimimum wage. Could you live on $105 per week? No, which is why the minimum wage is so much higher.

In fact, few waiters even see a paycheck, because our wages don't even cover our taxes and insurance. I have to pay several thousand dollars per year in taxes beyond my paycheck. (I actually just figured out my taxes for this year yeasterday!)

Knowing this to be true, I will sometimes watch my wait-person circulate, figure out how many tables he/she is handling and how quickly they're turning, and tip my share of a $20 or $25/hour gross wage. I figure if a waiter clears $150 a shift and works five days per week, that's a passable wage... more obviously in a higher-end place with more skilled service. But if I have run up a $75 tab in a place where the waiter is working six tables and they're all turning every 90 minutes, I might go a little lower. If I've run up the same tab in a place where she's working one or two tables only, I might go a little higher.

Tipping hawks and overseas visitors who withhold tips obviously have never lived within our system themselves.

IIRC and I'll say its been a few years since I was doing taxes for others but I believe you can get around that 8% rule if you can prove that you did not receive any tips or something less than 8%.

if you work at a place that does not allow tipping and you can prove it, you do not pay taxes on those wages

You cannot be serious??? I'm OF COURSE using the services of the restaurant(or whatever) is providing not the WAITER! In civilized countries this sort of thing is illegal. In civilized countries the government forces the restaurants to show consumers the ACTUAL full price of the meal. It OF COURSE includes taking the order and bringing it to you...

Not my problem US law is ....ed up.
However, if there is a law stating that I HAVE TO give tip, then of course I'm not going to break it. I'll just tip the minimum required by law. Please show me that government law.

I really don't care at all if the waiter is loosing money because if I don't tip. Again, not my problem.
The waiter can choose another job if she doesn't like it. And if she is being rude due to not tipping, I know not to visit that particular joint anymore. Easy:p

I guess no need to link the "I don't believe in tipping" video? :D

Nobody claimed there was a law, but simply that categorically refusing to tip waiters in this country is a jerk move. They're effectively independent contractors, paying restaurants for the privilege of waiting tables which (hopefully) will garner them enough tips to add up to a living wage. Similar to your "if they don't like the job they should quit" argument -- if you don't like the system here, you're more than welcome to not eat in restaurants (or stick to Mickey D's).

Oh, welcome to FT.

I agree fully.

You may not like the system we have here, you may dispute the legality of putting only part of the price of the meal on the menu, you may feel the system should change.

All valid points, but the fact remains that if you stiff someone whose livlihood depends on tips, you can't complain when people call you a big jerk. If I were to witness such behavior, in the US, I would indeed call that person a big jerk to their face.

I often host visitors from Europe and I impress upon them the necessity of leaving a decent tip in situations where it is customary and expected. Similarly, I don't go to Europe or Australia or wherever and complain, to all within earshot, how their society could be improved by becoming more like the US.

It would make things more comfortable for everyone if tips did not form such a crucial part of the wage of waiter/waitress. They will be able to safely predict their earnings over a period affording them stability.
I often wonder why Americans cling so fiercely to the tipping culture, and why a more socially responsible system is not in place. Can anyone enlighten me?

I wouldn't say Americans fiercely defend the tips system so much as don't think about it all that much -- it's just the way it's been for most of our lives (just like driving on the right-hand side of the road and predominantly using dollar bills instead of coins). Of course, there's no law prohibiting someone from starting up a "socially responsible" restaurant that promises to pay servers a living wage and full benefits in exchange for disallowing tips (fast food sort of does this, except for the living wage and benefits thing), but the current system has a lot of inertia.

Because when our friends in the land of the free and the home of the brave encounter a frase like "more socially responsible system", many chose to hear "communist"? ;)

(Hey guys, we love you and your wonderfully large and diverse country anyway, we just think you are a little weird when it comes to tipping, guns, and the political obsession with reproductive matters! :D)

I don't care what the US government thinks or expects in this area. If these "independent contractors" don't like the rules or the wages then it is time to move on to a better job more in line with their capabilities and expectations.

I would be happy to see all tipping banned by law, and a livable wage paid to those workers instead. Not all waiters make $2.13 an hour. I believe in California they are still subject to the CA minimum wage law, which is higher than the Federal minimum wage.

Instead of being utopian, if you really feel that strongly, stop going out to restaurants. It seems odd to be against a type of work environment but then patronize that type of business.

I think the underlying notion is that good service deserves recognition, if you remove the incentive (the tips) from otherwise low paying jobs, then service will suffer. In terms of the business owner it's a no-brainer, why not let the public supplement your staffs' wages? Mind you, I don't necessarily think the rationale holds up, service in Japan is almost always uniformly excellent and tipping is non-existent.

At the end of the day it's a cultural/societal norm, the merits of which are debatable. I think this is a situation where common sense should prevail, even if you find the practice objectionable bite the bullet during your travels and do like the locals.

Boy, if any service professional anywhere figures out who you are, you better sniff your drinks for added bodily fluids. What an awful attitude. Like insisting on attending Ascot in spandex and a wifebeater because you think dressing up is stupid.

And it's funny how disconnected from reality that underlying notion has become - here an author/waiter claims (with studies to back him up) that tipping is often uncorrelated with quality of service, having more to do with how well the waiter reads the customer and how the customer wants to be treated (whether with friendliness, aloofness, sarcasm, etc.). Certainly if service had much to do with it, the diner near my house (slogan proudly emblazoned on the servers' shirts: "Service With A F* Y*") wouldn't still be in business, let alone thriving :)

At this point I basically think of it as another example of the "unbundling" craze. The restaurant bill pays for the establishment's food and expenses, tip pays for service, and only for truly atrocious service would I consider stiffing the server. If I don't want to pay for table service, I'll find a place that offers counter service or eat at home. It's really not that hard to figure out.

It doesn't seem like it was that long ago, but here's a thread that's basically the same content.

Avoiding tipping in the U.S. - altogether!

I wholeheartedly agree! Having read some of the horrifyingly low wages some are paid, and a notion of the balance of actual wage to tips of overall income, for me it would seem logical to shift the balance heavily over to a standard higher minimum wage thereby tips being seen as a bonus for quality service. I would also feel less guilty for not tipping when service/food is of a poor quality knowing now that tax is paid on estimated tips.
Am i the only one who thinks this is logical?

Goodnight...Peter

I can't say that anyone fiercely defends the tipping culture. I certainly don't. I would much prefer a system where workers get paid a decent wage and the full price, including goods and service, were on the price list. Fantastic. Great. Wonderful.

HOWEVER, it is simply not that way in most parts of the United States, especially in travel-related industries. In certain areas, people rely on tips as a good share of their income, and denying tips under the theory that "it should be different" does nothing more than make the non-tipping customer look like a big jerk, and impoverish the individual performing the service.

Another consequence is poor service when you return to the establishment. "Oh, look, here comes Mr Big Shot. Let's stick him at the table next to the restroom. No tip from him, so will send over our least experienced trainee waiter." If you justify stiffing the tip on the grounds that "back home we don't do that", you can guarantee that your compatriots will end up at that restroom adjacent table with the trainee waiter.

As I said before, I don't care if you think it's wrong. I don't care if you think our tipping system is stupid. You come to America, tip like Americans.

We have to do it your way when we are there. Do it our way when you are here.

I avoid tipping by living in Asia! :)

I strongly dislike the tipping system in the US.

Ah, ha, I just thought of a good example. Grocery bagging.

In the US, grocery store employees bag the customer's groceries. (Excepting cut-rate grocery stores.)

In Europe, customers bag their own groceries.

When I visit my neighborhood Vons or Ralphs, I stand there and let the baggers bag my groceries, thank them pleasantly and go on my way.

When I go to Europe and visit a Real or Sainsbury or LeClerc, I grab a bag and bag my own groceries, with a pleasant expression on my face. I thank the clerk after getting my change, grab my bags, and go on my way.

I don't stand there demanding a grocery store employee bag my groceries because THAT'S THE WAY WE DO IT IN AMERICA AND OUR WAY OF GROCERY BAGGING IS FAR SUPERIOR TO YOUR WAY OF GROCERY BAGGING. If I did that, I would be a big jerk.

Similarly, I would consider someone to be a big jerk if they stiffed a tip in an establishment in America where tipping is usual, customary and expected as part of the employee's compensation, citing the European (or Australian or Japanese or whatever) system as superior.

Peter, here is what I do. If the service or the food is of such poor quality that I would not want to leave a tip, I ask to see the manager. I explain to the manager, face-to-face what my problem is. I take the attitude that the manager would want to know if the food or service is of poor quality and that I am actually doing them a favor by taking the time to inform them.

In most cases, the manager thanks me for bringing the problem to their attention. Occasionally, they might comp my entire bill, or give me a coupon for a future meal in hopes of bringing me back and proving to me the bad service or food was a one-time abberation.

In no case do I slink off into the night leaving no tip. I put on my big girl panties, inform management of the problem, then leave with my head held high.

This is actually rare. Sitting here, I can only think of a handful of times, in my 56 years, this has been necessary. My husband worked his way through college as a bus boy and take tipping very seriously.

Much as I'd prefer to simply pay (more, if necessary) for the food/drink, and not be subject to 'expected' tipping, I adopt a "When in Rome" attitude to these things and adopt the local customs, including tipping for certain services (bar, restaurant, taxi etc.) when in other countries where it exists (and probably erring on the generous side if unsure of the amount).

I did have one experience I didn't like. I know tipping of hotel housekeeping staff does happen (I have no idea how common, or in which countries, or how expected the practice is) but it is not something I have ever done - it simply AFAIK does not happen here in Oz. Was not an issue anywhere on my 9 week RTW trip, till I checked in to a hotel in Anchorage and discovered an envelope beside my bed with a typed message exhorting me to put money in it for the housekeeping staff "because they do a great job" or something like that.

I found that quite offensive (I certainly did not accede to the request/demand), almost akin to a beggar approaching me in the street. Is tipping of housekeeping staff a common practice? Is it universally expected in the US? Reading the envelope did leave a dirty taste in my mouth (no, I didn't lick it ;)).

As far as I know tipping of housekeeping staff doesn't happen in Australia. You pay a price to the hotel for accomodation and that includes servicing of the accomodation, replacement of linens etc... so the need to tip these staff does confound me a bit.

Recently in Hong Kong I noticed large card left next to the bed with the name of the housekeeper on it, basically saying it had been his pleasure to service the room. First time I had ever seen one of these, and wondered if it was a prelude to a tip!