+100

Never, not in a million years, would I pay for a meal that I did not get and with such crappy service to boot. They won out on that deal, and probably ate the meal you paid for.

The restaurant staff probably didn't eat the meal.. they probably spat in it, and realized TrojanHorse was out of the restaurant and cleared the bill.. The staff probably wished they didn't vandalize the tantalizing one a half hour to cook meal. :D

It's not what I say that I do that counts, it's what I do in the field.

And the only source of information anyone has for that is: well, they could hire a private detective to have me followed. ;)

Those who tip less than me will claim I'm stupid or encouraging an inefficient practice. Those who tip more than me will claim I'm cheap and depriving someone. Either way, the most vehement response to what I tip, or what I claim I tip, isn't from the server. Tipping isn't only and perhaps not even mainly about the interaction between server and me, but the interaction between me and my fellow diners, both real and virtual.

A lot of interesting, different perspectives here.

I have worked as a waiter a couple of times. The last time, I was trained well and expected to perform well. I did. As a result, I earned excellent tips. I made more as a waiter than I had as a salaried state employee (the job I lost prior to becoming a waiter). My wage as a waiter was $2.35/hour plus tips.

As others have mentioned, I did not expect much (if any) tip if I didn't perform my job well. Because I worked hard and made people genuinely happy, they paid me well. That's the way it should work. My point? If someone deserves it, tip 'em well! If not, don't feel guilty about not tipping them.

A short aside-- I live in Japan, where tips are not expected and often returned/refused. I still tip people if they help me out or do a particularly good job. This includes restaurants, hotels and taxis. Folks usually try to refuse the tips, but I insist. They are invariably pleasantly surprised.

FWIW.

Kento

This is a very good perspective to adopt. ^.. well done

^^^^^^^^ :D ^^^^^^^^

A new FT symbol.. Looks sort of like a smiley airplane.:D

With all the "I don't know what's normal 'over there' comments", may I solicit some replies defining normal and where.

Starting with Kento's comment about zero in Japan, and, of course, the 15+% in the US, what's normal where you live?

In my experience:

Australia - zero
UK - zero
Ireland - zero

It's all in the sticky at the top of the forum:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/trave...ry-region.html

You might want to take those numbers with a grain of salt. As per the comments in the thread, many of them are incorrect and/or stated in the wrong way (percentages rather than "round to nearest X").

Something else to keep in mind is that in most countries tips are generally only given in the case of (well) above-average service, rather than as a matter of course like they are in the US.

Just from eyeballing the countries on that list I have spent enough time in to know the locals, the numbers are nearly all well and truly higher than I've ever seen any of them tip. My impression is that list is either a) coloured by and for American expectations and/or b) created by consulting the people being tipped, rather than the people doing the tipping.

Ha ha, good luck finding a porter in Sweden, never seen one and I live there. I never tip taxis, taxi service in Sweden is one of the most expensive in the world. No need for a tip. Just swipe the credit card and sign.

10% on a restaurant seems ok if service was ok AND service charge is not already on the bill.

But as numerous posts already stated, US is not Europe or Asia. You do as the locals and tip where expected, otherwise, don't travel. I always give a daily tip to hotel maid in the US. Why? She handles my personal stuff and I want her to be happy and take care of me.

You make a good point. Whilst I definitely do not like the US-style tipping system, when I visit the US I adopt it, because that's the way it's done there.

I'm wondering how many Americans, when visiting a non-tipping culture, disrespect it by not being able resist the natural urge to tip (or try to tip), which may well be offensive to the person they're trying to tip. And how much that habit, over time, may change the culture there. Quite a few, I suspect.

I'm not really too concerned by it, just pointing out that it is a two-way street.

yah you are true... but it's difficult to handle...

I'd say for the UK it varies - 10% or just under seems "convention", but never if service is bad, and you won't be resented if you don't as some people never tip.

In principle in the UK I'd say you don't talk about the tip - you just leave it quietly if you are going to, and it is only acknowledged in passing. I have complained about waiters who openly ask for a tip, stating clearly that asking for a tip is a guaranteed way not to get one.

Neil

I do not like to tip, but i do love to brag about how much money I have..

Please look at my Rolex it is a fake, but it was on sale...

Nothing Cheap about me, and I do deserve all the free service I can get.

Recent posts in the thread have been cleaned up or deleted to comply with FlyerTalk Rules to discuss the topic, not members; and to avoid turning the thread into a political rant that might be suitable for OMNI but not for this thread.

Thanks, Ocn Vw 1K, Moderator.

All depends where you are. I tip or don't in accordance with local practice. It's not fair to say that if you're from Western Europe where a tip is small and added for outstanding service that you don't need to tip in the USA where it's part of the process and expected.

I don't judge other societies for their choices.

That said, if you don't want to trip the bellman at a hotel in the USA, don't use him. If you don't want to tip the waiter at a restaurant, eat take out. The token booth attendant for the Subway in NYC doesn't expect a tip, but the cab driver does.

+1

That's what I do when I'm in the US, I put in my bags in and out of an airport shuttle, I eat only take out, I don't use bellman.

I don't like the fact that a hotel is offering something like 'complimentary' shuttle, when it's not really complimentary. I saw shuttles with big writing inside it saying 'We appreciate your tips' or something like that, then it's not as 'complimentary' as it really should be.

I agree. Even though the service itself is free, the obligation to tip is pretty heavy. And coming from the US, I really don't mind tipping at all. But sometimes I'm stuck in a situation where I'm not holding cash or appropriate bills, and now I'm the jerk who didn't tip. Sometimes those shuttles have to come get me at 5am, and the last thing on my mind is the cash in my wallet.

I wouldn't say I avoid tipping, more like I only tip professions where it is customary and make sense. I only tip at sit down restaurants, taxis or airport shuttles, and my local barber. I wouldn't normally tip any other barber but I have been going to the same place for 10 years now so it is just a habit. I wouldn't tip a barber at another place. I pack light so I am always able to carry my own bags (usually just one bag and even just a backpack at that) so I have no need for hotel bellhops, and I take public transportation at my destination whenever possible so valet parking and an airport shuttle or taxi usually doesn't apply. When going to my local airport I mostly drive my own car but in the occasional case where I take the airport shuttle I tip.

When I was in high school I had a job at a country club carrying and loading golf bags and cleaning clubs so having worked a service job where tips are appreciated I am understanding and a generous tipper when a tip is needed.

One thing that just grinds my gears and just bugs me to no end is when you go to a takeout or fast food joint and there is a tip jar on the counter, and/or the recept has an option for tips.

So I place my order at the counter, wait a bit, they call out my number, and I pick up my own order and either walk out with it and eat it at home, or stay in the restaurant and eat it there and throw my own trash out. That deserves a tip why? :confused: That makes as much sense as tipping the cashier at the grocery store for ringing up my items. :td:

I'd worry just a little less about what other people think, if I were you. If anyone thought you were a "jerk", then why should this be your problem?

I heard a New Orleans restaurant and food critic say many years ago that if you decide to tip well before you walk into the restaurant, you'll get better service. I've found that to be the case (with very rare exceptions) ever since in everything from neighborhood joints to the finest white tablecloth places.

Believe it or not, but try it and I think you'll come to the same conclusion.

While I agree with you, one thing that I find interesting is this:

If you go into a "mom and pop" burger joint you tip the waitress who gives a percentage of the tips to the cook. In other words you're tipping the cook (by proxy).

If the same guy was working in a fast food place cooking your burger he would not get a tip from you. Same guy, same burger (sort of), same customer but different tip....

+1 With the caveat that I regularly tip for the food delivered to my door (obviously) at the same rate that I would tip a waiter (18-20%, more if it's from a cheap place, where a $5 tip to the delivery guy just feels like the right thing to do). If I am picking up take-out, I will also leave a tip, as the folks who prepared my order (usually the gentleman behind the bar and a waiter or busboy) are going to be charged on their taxes as if I had tipped, so . . .

That said, ITA. When in Europe, I don't go around saying how much better things would be if only they did things the way we do them back home.

If you don't want to tip in the US, minimize the circumstances in which tipping is culturally expected, and move on.

Yeah, that's one of those local customs that the bellmen hate. ;)

Mike

The problem is, if you haven't spent extensive time in a tipping culture, knowing "the circumstances in which tipping is culturally expected" (and an appropriate amount to tip) is a major difficulty (and quite stressful).

(Near as I've been able to deduce, "the circumstances in which tipping is culturally expected", are typically "when you know someone is getting screwed by their boss and you feel guilty about it".)

If that were the case, I'd NEVER tip. Unless I'm the boss or they're using slave labour why should I feel guilty because someone willingly accepted a crappy job? If anything their parrents and teachers should feel guilty for not better preparing them for life, not me.

So do you tip a dentist like you do a masseuse ?

Nope. I avoid dentists (will go when needed but they're my one phobia) and tip a masseuse as per local custom.

The point I was making is that, under normal circumstances, I don't feel guilty about a person's CHOICE of employment. They made their bed, they lie in it.

I know many people in dead end jobs use them as a means of survival while they get the education, etc to get better ones and I totally understand that. I did the same. I flipped burgers, worked as a security guard, etc and do you know how many people felt guilty over my choice of jobs? To my knowledge, none. Do you know how many people tipped me? None. No sour grapes from me, it was a means to an end.

However, those who take on dead end jobs and look at them as a career get no sympathy from me. You made the choice, not me. I will, and do, tip as per local custom and based on service level but I will not be bullied or guilted into tiping. Don't want a tip from me? That's the best way to achieve your desired result.

Well, my son works in a restaurant in Toronto and is grateful for any tip left! He wouldn't be able to survive without it which is unfortunate but true and a sad reflection on the wages paid to people in a sector where they work very long hours in work which believe it or not is extremely hard...not to mention the numerous pairs of shoes he has to buy from all the walking about. He also has to purchase his uniform which is changed every 3 months or so....He also has to tip out other people he works with on a percentage basis and this comes out of his own money if the tip left is lower than the percentage he has to pay others (if that makes sense!!).....so please carry on tipping, you really are making a difference!

Sounds like your son needs a new career path.

No one forces your son to work there. If he barely makes a living out of tips then it's time for him to change job.

I confess -- last year, year, my husband and I were in Germany. One morning, after breakfast, he went to a business meeting, and took me back to our hotel room. The room had still not been made up, and I sat up on the bed, flipping channels on the TV. Eventually, the housekeepers showed up. In my broken German, I asked them to come in and make up the room. They answered in broken German themselves, being, as it turned out, from Hungary. We ended up chatting, to the best of all our linguistically challenged abilities, during the time they were cleaning and straightening up. When it came time for them to make up the bed, they helped me out and onto my wheelchair (which for some inexplicable reason, my husband had left on the other side of the room, and would have taken me a good five minutes to get to), which I greatly appreciated.

You bet your life I gave them each a few Euro for the kindness, patience, and generosity they showed me that day.

Yes in that situation I'll probably tip too because the housekeeping staff is not expecting a tip (you do know that people earn enough in Germany).

However if you really want to show your kindness to them, you might consider telling the GM of the hotel about it. This way the hotel management knows that they have so lovely staffs, and this attitude should be promoted. I think this will mean even more than the tip you gave them.

Oh, I agree, and made sure to do that both verbally and in writing. This was one of those hotels that, while not the nicest or fanciest we've ever stayed in (and far from our first choice when we made our reservation), far exceeded our expectations in terms of the service we received. Great, great staff.

I often carry a few small gifts (usually stuffed animals- kangaroos, etc) in my bag for those situations where someone has gone out of their way for me (where a cash tip is inappropriate) and I'll leave one, along with a personal note, and ask the manager to pass them on to the person for me.

The biggest thing I try to avoid is room service. Because there is already a gratuity included in the bill, along with a delivery charge, a service fee, etc. And yet, there almost always the expectation of a tip from the person who delivers the food. It drives me a little nuts.

I also avoid bellhops.

Given that waitstaff in California make significantly more minimum wage than in other parts of the US, why do we tip the same 15-20%?

I'd like to see restaurants pay their workers a fair wage, adjust their menu prices or impose a mandatory service charge accordingly, and ask their patrons not to tip unless it's to recognize exceptional service.

Interesting commentary on this place, that has a mandatory service charge:

http://www.yelp.com/biz/iberia-restaurant-menlo-park

This is true at some hotels. However, I can think of a few around the Bay Area where they'll tell you the delivery charge and gratuity has already been included. There's still a line for 'tip' but no expectation that you do so. I think this is how it should be done.