Knee Defender Gadget
Oct 19, 2014, 10:58 pm
#106
Join Date: Mar 2007
Programs: QFF Gold, Flying Blue, Enrich
Posts: 5,366
Of course not, it's no only about reclining, it's about how you decide to recline. If you turn around and check that it's okay, please go ahead and recline. I'm not going to be offended. If you are not paying attention to your surroundings and instead hit it with full force, I will not pay attention to my surroundings either. Respect goes both ways.
If you travel for business, not using a laptop is often not an option and using it on my lap doesn't really work on the small spaces the airline provides (C/J is not always available last minute on the routes I fly; I generally fly C/J but not always I can). Tablets don't work as an alternative in my line of work either.
Also, just to be clear, I'm not assaulting anyone, I'm just using what the airline gave me and what is -as you see it- my right to use. I'm doing the same as you are, with the same level of respect to my fellow travellers. Don't be a douche and check your surroundings when traveling and I will be a pleasant traveller alongside you.
Keep in mind that the problem are not people who travel frequently, they are not the ones causing problems by not paying attention (most of them do). People who travel much less are. They are unaware of the issues that come with the different "rights" the airline gives you and just recline. I told people that I was using a notebook and it'd be great if they could be careful or give me a heads up, not only 10 minutes later they crashed their seat into full recline and nearly destroyed my stuff. This happened to me once too many times. Now it's C/J or the Knee Defender.
I had passengers and the FA tell me to remove the device multiple times (since the passenger didn't bother to talk to me), I have no problem with that. You most certainly should be able to recline, all I'm asking for is that you are aware of your surroundings. I am also still using the very same Knee Defender I have used the very first time.
- bookeew
If you travel for business, not using a laptop is often not an option and using it on my lap doesn't really work on the small spaces the airline provides (C/J is not always available last minute on the routes I fly; I generally fly C/J but not always I can). Tablets don't work as an alternative in my line of work either.
Also, just to be clear, I'm not assaulting anyone, I'm just using what the airline gave me and what is -as you see it- my right to use. I'm doing the same as you are, with the same level of respect to my fellow travellers. Don't be a douche and check your surroundings when traveling and I will be a pleasant traveller alongside you.
Keep in mind that the problem are not people who travel frequently, they are not the ones causing problems by not paying attention (most of them do). People who travel much less are. They are unaware of the issues that come with the different "rights" the airline gives you and just recline. I told people that I was using a notebook and it'd be great if they could be careful or give me a heads up, not only 10 minutes later they crashed their seat into full recline and nearly destroyed my stuff. This happened to me once too many times. Now it's C/J or the Knee Defender.
I had passengers and the FA tell me to remove the device multiple times (since the passenger didn't bother to talk to me), I have no problem with that. You most certainly should be able to recline, all I'm asking for is that you are aware of your surroundings. I am also still using the very same Knee Defender I have used the very first time.
- bookeew
Oct 20, 2014, 5:47 am
#107
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 361
I'm regularly using a notebook on my flights for work. Depending on the seats and your notebook, if the person in front of you declines too rapidly (which a lot of people do), it will destroy your notebook's screen. No thank you. I had this happen once on the way to a client engagement.
Imagine being seated behind a client of yours. Or even only across the aisle from a client. Especially when taking the small regional planes that you mention to minor locations it's not all that far-fetched. Your behavior will be considered unprofessional, and will reflect negatively on you and your firm. Even if you feel you are in the right, that's a risk better not to take.
Oct 20, 2014, 6:36 am
#108
Suspended
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Ontario, Canada
Programs: Aeroplan, IHG, Enterprise, Avios, Nexus
Posts: 8,355
I'm not concerned about anyone using a Knee Defender. Now that I know they exist and are prohibited by the airlines anyone using one on me won't be doing so for long. A quick word with an FA and I'll be able to recline in peace.
If some dick wants to kick my chair or otherwise be obnoxious that can be dealt with as well. He can explain to his employer why he didn't make the client meeting because he was kicked off the aircraft or perhaps dragged off in cuffs.
And if I see some jerk using a Knee Defender on someone else I might just let the FA know.
If some dick wants to kick my chair or otherwise be obnoxious that can be dealt with as well. He can explain to his employer why he didn't make the client meeting because he was kicked off the aircraft or perhaps dragged off in cuffs.
And if I see some jerk using a Knee Defender on someone else I might just let the FA know.
Oct 31, 2014, 12:39 am
#109
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 20
I think the reclining mechanism should be taken away for economy. Causes too much issues. I have a disability and on long haul flights I am willing to soldier through it and just find a comfortable position or get up and stretch each hours so that I dont disturb the passengers behind me.
However, if you do insist on being in my lap because of your "right to recline", my spasms hand spasms due to my chronic pain might just cause me to accidentally spill my tomato juice on you a few times...but I always offer fair warning to those who insist.
However, if you do insist on being in my lap because of your "right to recline", my spasms hand spasms due to my chronic pain might just cause me to accidentally spill my tomato juice on you a few times...but I always offer fair warning to those who insist.
Oct 31, 2014, 6:53 am
#110
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 436
I think the reclining mechanism should be taken away for economy. Causes too much issues. I have a disability and on long haul flights I am willing to soldier through it and just find a comfortable position or get up and stretch each hours so that I dont disturb the passengers behind me.
However, if you do insist on being in my lap because of your "right to recline", my spasms hand spasms due to my chronic pain might just cause me to accidentally spill my tomato juice on you a few times...but I always offer fair warning to those who insist.
However, if you do insist on being in my lap because of your "right to recline", my spasms hand spasms due to my chronic pain might just cause me to accidentally spill my tomato juice on you a few times...but I always offer fair warning to those who insist.
Oct 31, 2014, 7:53 am
#111
Suspended
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Ontario, Canada
Programs: Aeroplan, IHG, Enterprise, Avios, Nexus
Posts: 8,355
All that approach will do is risk adding some "acute pain" to your "chronic pain."
Nov 1, 2014, 4:07 am
#112
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 20
I'll take my chances with the big bad airport people 
. I dont think I can get much more banged up than I already am though, but I am no worse for the wear and still traveling 
. I dont think I can get much more banged up than I already am though, but I am no worse for the wear and still traveling
Nov 1, 2014, 2:38 pm
#113
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: SYD
Programs: QF
Posts: 490
So you want people to not use a function of the seat because you're too cheap to pay for a Business/PE ticket?
Nov 2, 2014, 8:51 am
#114
Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,271
Trying to say what is right and what is wrong behaviour is pointless. People being people will behave as they decide to behave. Nothing anyone says is going to change that.
So that being the case, it would seem to me that the questions to be asked and answered should be far different than 'should a Knee Defender be allowed or not?' Why not ask, should a seat back have a table attached to it at all? Should a seat be equipped to recline or not? Should there not be sufficient space that if a seat can recline, it does not annoy the person behind you? There are a lot of questions that could be asked. But arguing about what someone does under the current prevaling set-up is pointless. People are always going to suit their behaviour to the situation as it exists. If what they do is not acceptable, then you change the CONDITIONS, not attempt to try to tell people to change their behaviour. It's cause and effect that is in play here. Don't just look at the effect, look at the cause. The cause is NOT the Knee Defender.
If someone wants to use a laptop or knees more legroom, then why are they not looking for a set of conditions that will allow them to do that without having to have SOMEONE ELSE do something they do not wish to do? CitizenWorld is not incorrect in asking if you want more room, then why not pay for it?
To me it's simple. If someone is given a seat that can recline then you should expect they may recline it. If they do so and it inconveniences you, then you have bought the wrong product for your needs. Don't buy a seat with limited space and a seat in front of you that can recline into that space. You cannot tell others what to do but you CAN take responsibility for YOUR own decisions.
So that being the case, it would seem to me that the questions to be asked and answered should be far different than 'should a Knee Defender be allowed or not?' Why not ask, should a seat back have a table attached to it at all? Should a seat be equipped to recline or not? Should there not be sufficient space that if a seat can recline, it does not annoy the person behind you? There are a lot of questions that could be asked. But arguing about what someone does under the current prevaling set-up is pointless. People are always going to suit their behaviour to the situation as it exists. If what they do is not acceptable, then you change the CONDITIONS, not attempt to try to tell people to change their behaviour. It's cause and effect that is in play here. Don't just look at the effect, look at the cause. The cause is NOT the Knee Defender.
If someone wants to use a laptop or knees more legroom, then why are they not looking for a set of conditions that will allow them to do that without having to have SOMEONE ELSE do something they do not wish to do? CitizenWorld is not incorrect in asking if you want more room, then why not pay for it?
To me it's simple. If someone is given a seat that can recline then you should expect they may recline it. If they do so and it inconveniences you, then you have bought the wrong product for your needs. Don't buy a seat with limited space and a seat in front of you that can recline into that space. You cannot tell others what to do but you CAN take responsibility for YOUR own decisions.
Nov 2, 2014, 12:49 pm
#115
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 207
I can hardly blame the airline. If people want to buy crap... then there will be people who'll make the crap for you to buy. Honestly, it won't surprise me if airline comes up with standing room only and the same people will complain all the while buying it all up.
Last edited by gsxsilver; Nov 2, 2014 at 1:02 pm
Nov 4, 2014, 12:42 am
#116
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Dirty Jersey
Programs: United 1K
Posts: 148
This is nuts. I paid for my ticket and will recline my seat when I want. If the person behind me is too tall, they should have purchased a business class ticket.
If a person refused to remove those devices, I would do it for them. They have a reclining seat, but are going to prevent me from doing the same?? There would be a serious problem.
If a person refused to remove those devices, I would do it for them. They have a reclining seat, but are going to prevent me from doing the same?? There would be a serious problem.
Nov 5, 2014, 6:28 am
#117
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: NYC
Programs: Marriot Am, MU Pt
Posts: 3,092
If I see someone using this behind me on a long haul flight I'll stick it with glue so the guy can't put the tray back up and has to pay the airline for the removal…
For a short haul I probably wouldn't have noticed as I don't recline.
For a short haul I probably wouldn't have noticed as I don't recline.
Nov 5, 2014, 8:44 am
#118
Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,271
Gsxsilver, I am reminded of a well-known package tourist destination where flights were offered that departed mid-afternoon or late as in very late (midnight to 3am).
Given that people were out of their hotel at noon, you would think the mid-afternoon flights would be the most wanted. Not so however simply because there was a 10GBP(package tourists from the UK) difference in price. The day time flights were flying half empty because people would not pay that extra 10 pounds per person.
After a few years, the day time flights were stopped and all flights were late evening/early am. You can guess what the people then all complained about. So yeah, they would buy standing room only and then complain about it. Hilarious.
What made me laugh with the package tourists was that they had to spend all day dragging their luggage around, sitting in bars/restaurants spending money while waiting for this 2am flight, all to save 10 GBP each on the flight cost. Made no sense whatsoever. But then if common sense were indeed 'common' as in everyone had it, the term 'common sense' would have no reason to exist. ;-)
Given that people were out of their hotel at noon, you would think the mid-afternoon flights would be the most wanted. Not so however simply because there was a 10GBP(package tourists from the UK) difference in price. The day time flights were flying half empty because people would not pay that extra 10 pounds per person.
After a few years, the day time flights were stopped and all flights were late evening/early am. You can guess what the people then all complained about. So yeah, they would buy standing room only and then complain about it. Hilarious.
What made me laugh with the package tourists was that they had to spend all day dragging their luggage around, sitting in bars/restaurants spending money while waiting for this 2am flight, all to save 10 GBP each on the flight cost. Made no sense whatsoever. But then if common sense were indeed 'common' as in everyone had it, the term 'common sense' would have no reason to exist. ;-)
Nov 8, 2014, 5:43 pm
#120
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: NY Metro Area
Programs: AA 2MM Yay!, UA MM, Costco General Member
Posts: 49,047