View Poll Results: Q: What is your view on FlyerTalk implementing a "Helpful" button feature?
Support
433
59.72%
Oppose
275
37.93%
No opinion
17
2.34%
Voters: 725. You may not vote on this poll
Jan 12, 2015, 9:07 pm
Last edit by: Prospero
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Some FTers are supportive of like/helpful button. Some are not. Some on both sides of the issue have questions, concerns and/or need more info. This wiki attempts to highlight them in bullet format/"cliff notes" version from the 566 posts in this thread. More detailed information regarding the pros/cons/questions/concerns/info can be garnered by reading the entire thread, where FTers on both sides of the like/helpful button have been eloquent/provided valuable input.
Pros:
* Makes Flyertalk more modern; more like Facebook, LinkedIn, and other progressive internet bulletin boards
* A like/helpful button would minimize unnecessary replies such as +1.
* Streamlines posts
* Positive feedback incentivizes quality content/FTers will post more
* Some people won’t take time to write a thank you but will post a like
* Those with more likes/helpfuls are considered knowledgable
Cons:
* Makes it easier for airlines/companies to find mistake fares/glitches/underground tricks
* Makes Flyertalk more like Facebook/dumbs it down
* FT had rating system here years ago and it did not go well
* System can be gamed/cliques develop
* Clutters up posts/takes up valuable screen space
* Will not eliminate +1s/+1s also provide positive feedback
* Posts that have inaccurate info can also get likes/doesn't mean poster is knowledgable
* If FTers post info & it doesn't get likes/helpfuls, less incentive to post more
* Some who might have posted info in the past will now just post like, so less information provided to other FTers.
* Older posts will tend to have more likes/helpfuls on average than newer posts in the same thread, which can be misleading when the information is out-of-date. [added by MSPeconomist]
Questions, concerns about how it will work, and/or information based on brief internal trial already done
* If implemented, can FTers who prefer not to utilize the like/helpful button turn it off so that they don't see it?
* Is there a software way to separate likes of posts from posters? (Limited trial indicates no; don't know if software can be changed to do so)
* Can a post/day count be implemented before implementing for FTers, similar Omni/CC? (Yes)
* Can certain forums have it turned off such as Omni? (No, current software is it's either all forums or none)
* If a sitewide trial is created, what are the metrics for success or failure?
* What is the goal of this/how will the data be used?
* If customization of current software is required, will this take away from development on other projects such as a better mobile app?
* Will or can there be a dislike/unhelpful button?
* What happens if a post that is "liked" gets its content edited and ends up having a different meaning than it initially had at the time the post was "liked"?
* Can threads or individual posts deemed helpful be bookmarked/saved?
* Can users "opt out" and select to remove all trace of the system, as is currently possible with the ignore list and removing view of signatures?
(lower right wiki corner)Some FTers are supportive of like/helpful button. Some are not. Some on both sides of the issue have questions, concerns and/or need more info. This wiki attempts to highlight them in bullet format/"cliff notes" version from the 566 posts in this thread. More detailed information regarding the pros/cons/questions/concerns/info can be garnered by reading the entire thread, where FTers on both sides of the like/helpful button have been eloquent/provided valuable input.
Pros:
* Makes Flyertalk more modern; more like Facebook, LinkedIn, and other progressive internet bulletin boards
* A like/helpful button would minimize unnecessary replies such as +1.
* Streamlines posts
* Positive feedback incentivizes quality content/FTers will post more
* Some people won’t take time to write a thank you but will post a like
* Those with more likes/helpfuls are considered knowledgable
Cons:
* Makes it easier for airlines/companies to find mistake fares/glitches/underground tricks
* Makes Flyertalk more like Facebook/dumbs it down
* FT had rating system here years ago and it did not go well
* System can be gamed/cliques develop
* Clutters up posts/takes up valuable screen space
* Will not eliminate +1s/+1s also provide positive feedback
* Posts that have inaccurate info can also get likes/doesn't mean poster is knowledgable
* If FTers post info & it doesn't get likes/helpfuls, less incentive to post more
* Some who might have posted info in the past will now just post like, so less information provided to other FTers.
* Older posts will tend to have more likes/helpfuls on average than newer posts in the same thread, which can be misleading when the information is out-of-date. [added by MSPeconomist]
Questions, concerns about how it will work, and/or information based on brief internal trial already done
* If implemented, can FTers who prefer not to utilize the like/helpful button turn it off so that they don't see it?
* Is there a software way to separate likes of posts from posters? (Limited trial indicates no; don't know if software can be changed to do so)
* Can a post/day count be implemented before implementing for FTers, similar Omni/CC? (Yes)
* Can certain forums have it turned off such as Omni? (No, current software is it's either all forums or none)
* If a sitewide trial is created, what are the metrics for success or failure?
* What is the goal of this/how will the data be used?
* If customization of current software is required, will this take away from development on other projects such as a better mobile app?
* Will or can there be a dislike/unhelpful button?
* What happens if a post that is "liked" gets its content edited and ends up having a different meaning than it initially had at the time the post was "liked"?
* Can threads or individual posts deemed helpful be bookmarked/saved?
* Can users "opt out" and select to remove all trace of the system, as is currently possible with the ignore list and removing view of signatures?
"Like" Button?
Sep 4, 2013, 9:38 am
#31
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
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Posts: 71,107
I can't imagine why anyone would want to go through more pages. But that's a separate topic.I was thinking today when I posted
after a post if that counted as a +1 or a 'like' Cheers.
Sep 5, 2013, 3:53 pm
#32
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: BCT. Formerly known as attorney28
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Posts: 6,825
This would be a great feature. Could also call it "Thanks" feature (instead of "Like"). It would actually save a lot of posts, and it would be a good way to reward especially useful posts. German website http://www.vielfliegertreff.de has this system, and I have found it really, really useful. It's a friendly, positive feature with practically no potential for abuse.
Sep 5, 2013, 4:53 pm
#33
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: The City of Angels, CA
Programs: Nothing current
Posts: 392
This would be a great feature. Could also call it "Thanks" feature (instead of "Like"). It would actually save a lot of posts, and it would be a good way to reward especially useful posts. German website http://www.vielfliegertreff.de has this system, and I have found it really, really useful. It's a friendly, positive feature with practically no potential for abuse.
-S
Sep 7, 2013, 4:52 am
#34
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Central Europe
Programs: AY Gold, A3 Gold, UA Gold, Hyatt Globalist, HH Diamond, Marriott Gold
Posts: 482
Sep 7, 2013, 6:54 am
#35
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: JER
Programs: BA Gold/OWE, several MUCCI, and assorted Pensions!
Posts: 32,145
I support the "like" option, which is used on all the other forums I visit. A simple indicTion of agreement and/or appreciation. Quick and easy.
I deplore the "+1" posts, which not only clutter the threads but also indicate, on the forum index, a "new post" ... which on subsequent inspection says nothing new. That's a waste of my time!
I deplore the "+1" posts, which not only clutter the threads but also indicate, on the forum index, a "new post" ... which on subsequent inspection says nothing new. That's a waste of my time!
Sep 7, 2013, 8:12 am
#36
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2000
Programs: DL FO, Marriott Gold, SPG Gold
Posts: 12,003
I support the "like" option, which is used on all the other forums I visit. A simple indicTion of agreement and/or appreciation. Quick and easy.
I deplore the "+1" posts, which not only clutter the threads but also indicate, on the forum index, a "new post" ... which on subsequent inspection says nothing new. That's a waste of my time!
I deplore the "+1" posts, which not only clutter the threads but also indicate, on the forum index, a "new post" ... which on subsequent inspection says nothing new. That's a waste of my time!
IMHO, using "Thanks" instead of "like" is simply a matter of personal taste and there is nothing wrong with the description "like".
Sep 7, 2013, 6:28 pm
#37
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: NW London and NW Sydney
Programs: BA Diamond, Hilton Bronze, A3 Diamond, IHG *G
Posts: 6,344
Sep 8, 2013, 8:32 pm
#38
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: CLE
Programs: The standard ones.
Posts: 27
Yes, Yes, Yes! I love these features on other community sites, and it would be a great add to FlyerTalk. (Likes, thanks, either way)
Sep 9, 2013, 12:16 pm
#39
Moderator: Smoking Lounge; FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: SFO
Programs: Lifetime (for now) Gold MM, HH Gold, Giving Tootsie Pops to UA employees, & a retired hockey goalie
Posts: 28,878
).Cheers.
I see a big difference between like & +1
Like = you appreciate or value the post
+1 = you agree with the post, as in you have experience or knowledge with this issue & agree with the post
The two are very different.
I would also see the I-Like-That-Poster mentality & clicking like regardless if the post is of any real value.
--
Like = you appreciate or value the post
+1 = you agree with the post, as in you have experience or knowledge with this issue & agree with the post
The two are very different.
I would also see the I-Like-That-Poster mentality & clicking like regardless if the post is of any real value.
--
Sep 15, 2013, 12:41 pm
#40
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: ICT
Programs: AA ExP
Posts: 1,860
Two thoughts here based on my experience with this feature on other boards.
1) The semantic difference between "Like" and "+1" is not reflected in how people actually use the "Like" feature -- people use the button to express agreement with the content of the post.
2) I have not seen the "Like" feature become a popularity contest -- people are generally pretty good about using the feature to highlight the content rather than the poster.
If the wording of the feature could be changed to be "+1" instead of "Like", would that change people's opinions?
-S
1) The semantic difference between "Like" and "+1" is not reflected in how people actually use the "Like" feature -- people use the button to express agreement with the content of the post.
2) I have not seen the "Like" feature become a popularity contest -- people are generally pretty good about using the feature to highlight the content rather than the poster.
If the wording of the feature could be changed to be "+1" instead of "Like", would that change people's opinions?
-S
I think the place that it brings the most outsized value is when there are contradictory posts. It can be made clear to newbies or to those who don't know the answer, which of the contradictory posts is correct.
But in general, I just like positive feedback. I think it incentivizes quality content. If I receive 10 Likes for a post, it makes me more likely to take the time to contribute quality content in the future. It's just human nature that we like having our efforts appreciated. And appreciated in a way that doesn't sidetrack and clutter the thread.
Sep 16, 2013, 2:44 am
#41
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Aug 2002
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Posts: 71,107
+1
1. I think the place that it brings the most outsized value is when there are contradictory posts. It can be made clear to newbies or to those who don't know the answer, which of the contradictory posts is correct.
2. But in general, I just like positive feedback. I think it incentivizes quality content. If I receive 10 Likes for a post, it makes me more likely to take the time to contribute quality content in the future. It's just human nature that we like having our efforts appreciated. And appreciated in a way that doesn't sidetrack and clutter the thread.
1. I think the place that it brings the most outsized value is when there are contradictory posts. It can be made clear to newbies or to those who don't know the answer, which of the contradictory posts is correct.
2. But in general, I just like positive feedback. I think it incentivizes quality content. If I receive 10 Likes for a post, it makes me more likely to take the time to contribute quality content in the future. It's just human nature that we like having our efforts appreciated. And appreciated in a way that doesn't sidetrack and clutter the thread.
I can think of reasons for like, but trying to determine which is correct isn't amongst them.2. I'm a bit confused on how +1 doesn't also provide positive feedback.
And I really don't get how +1s 'clutter' a thread. I actually find the post screenshots above w/ Likes & names listed under a post more distracting/taking up real estate than simple scrolling quickly down a thread w/ some +1s. Of course I also hate avatar wildness, which MP has & so far we haven't - having to get past everyone's avatar for every program they belong to when reading a post is a PITA.Like koko, I'm not set in stone either way on this one. As he mentioned & I agree with, what someone has written is what determines value to me (or not), not whether what someone has written has a gazillion likes or +1s after it. Also I've never depended on someone posting a like or +1 to validate my post/thought or determine if I'm going to continue to contribute to FT, but that's just me.
Cheers.
Sep 16, 2013, 9:56 am
#42
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: ICT
Programs: AA ExP
Posts: 1,860
OTOH, each individual +1 takes up a minimum of 1.5 inches of vertical space.
(And 1.5 inches is without quoting, which can lead to confusion with intervening posts. If the full quote is quoted, it can take more than 1.5 inches. Or a [snip] quote can be created keeping it at 1.5 inches, but that takes even more time on the part of the +1'er, providing even more disincentive.)
The bottom line for me is that the positive feedback via a like mechanism is:
- Easier to do than +1, thus likely to be utilized more often (good for positive feedback)
- Empirically takes far less space, thus creates less clutter (good for readability)
- Is more likely to be used because it doesn't create clutter (good for positive feedback)
- More positive feedback results in more quality content
Sep 17, 2013, 2:49 am
#43
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Aug 2002
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Whichever has the most likes.
The bottom line for me is that the positive feedback via a like mechanism is:
The bottom line for me is that the positive feedback via a like mechanism is:
- Easier to do than +1, thus likely to be utilized more often (good for positive feedback)
- Empirically takes far less space, thus creates less clutter (good for readability)
- Is more likely to be used because it doesn't create clutter (good for positive feedback)
- More positive feedback results in more quality content
), which is one reason I don't really pay much attention to like. I'm not set in stone one way or the other on this issue. But I think like supporters are being naive if they think having like will eliminate plus +1s entirely.
Cheers.
Sep 17, 2013, 3:12 am
#44
FlyerTalk Evangelist
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I might buy into everything you've mentioned, except I disagree that whichever response has the most likes means it's a correct answer. It could be wrong & if you have folk who don't know any better they'd like it blindly. I actually saw that happen in MP a few times (people posting entirely wrong information & people liking the posts ), which is one reason I don't really pay much attention to like.
I'm not set in stone one way or the other on this issue. But I think like supporters are being naive if they think having like will eliminate plus +1s entirely.
Cheers.
), which is one reason I don't really pay much attention to like. I'm not set in stone one way or the other on this issue. But I think like supporters are being naive if they think having like will eliminate plus +1s entirely.
Cheers.
Or, on a more serious note, "like" means I think your comment adds value to the discussion, even if I don't necessarily agree with it. "+1" signifies agreement. They are different.
Getting many of my posts "liked" has certainly made me feel good about posting on MilePoint, which in turn incentivized me to post more good information.
Of course, it would be even more motivation--and motivation to visit there more often, as it's been awhile since I've been over there--if I could actually do something with the status points generated by likes, like convert them to miles or something.
Sep 17, 2013, 7:09 am
#45
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: ICT
Programs: AA ExP
Posts: 1,860
I might buy into everything you've mentioned, except I disagree that whichever response has the most likes means it's a correct answer. It could be wrong & if you have folk who don't know any better they'd like it blindly. I actually saw that happen in MP a few times (people posting entirely wrong information & people liking the posts ), which is one reason I don't really pay much attention to like.
I'm not set in stone one way or the other on this issue. But I think like supporters are being naive if they think having like will eliminate plus +1s entirely.
Cheers.
), which is one reason I don't really pay much attention to like. I'm not set in stone one way or the other on this issue. But I think like supporters are being naive if they think having like will eliminate plus +1s entirely.
Cheers.
Of course, given the keywords BuzzFeed uses, sophisticated is probably not the right term.
Obviously the keywords would have to be radically different and carefully thought through. However, things like: correct, incorrect, cool, funny, etc could work. (I took two seconds to think of those; obviously the community could do better.)
If we wanted to go even more free form, people could just type a single word tag into a box. It would then appear under the post. People could click on the word to add their vote to that word as descriptive of the post. I understand the potential for abuse, but I think the same ToS would simply apply. Just because it's one-word communication doesn't change the fact that it's words and the ToS governs.
I'm not proposing the latter two ideas, just throwing them out as brainstorms.