WN's new reservation system aggressively cancels duplicate bookings
Mar 19, 2017, 10:14 pm
#76
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: RNO
Programs: AA/DL/UA
Posts: 10,775
This happened to me. Going to New England in Sept. Flight out there is a JetBlue redeye. Booked a one-way Boston to California Sept 6 with points a few weeks ago. Family reunion plans are evolving, so I recently booked another one-way (also with points) Manchester (MHT) to California Sept 7. A couple days ago received cancellation email for the BOS-California one-way without explanation. Stunned (I thought maybe someone had hacked my email to get my confirm # to mess with me!), and honestly not sure why the flight was cancelled, I called (1 hour on the phone) and they explained that new booking system is catching these so-called "double bookings". Luckily they sorted it out for me, I got my BOS flight back, and didn't lose any points. I still can't believe it. No warning, two flights from different cities, not even the same day! I don't trust them to honor a basic booking anymore. I agree, NOT ACCEPTABLE.
Anyway, going to burn up my remaining SWA points and cancel my SWA credit card. I see no reason to seek out and fly Southwest if there is nothing that distinguishes them from the other majors. Delta, United, etc typically have better fares, better flight options (redyes available), and "bags fly 'free'" means nothing to a light packer like me. I used to also look to Southwest first -- this new policy/enforcement is a shame and they are losing a dedicated customer. I never considered it a "loophole", but rather a benefit that made Southwest the best airline in the sky.
Anyway, going to burn up my remaining SWA points and cancel my SWA credit card. I see no reason to seek out and fly Southwest if there is nothing that distinguishes them from the other majors. Delta, United, etc typically have better fares, better flight options (redyes available), and "bags fly 'free'" means nothing to a light packer like me. I used to also look to Southwest first -- this new policy/enforcement is a shame and they are losing a dedicated customer. I never considered it a "loophole", but rather a benefit that made Southwest the best airline in the sky.
Mar 20, 2017, 6:19 am
#77
Moderator: Southwest Airlines, Capital One
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: California
Programs: WN Companion Pass, A-list preferred, Hyatt Globalist; United Club Lietime (sic) Member
Posts: 21,624
The same fares on the other airlines (i.e., the fares with no change fee) are far more expensive. They will also cancel your duplicate bookings just like Southwest. No airline wants you as a customer because you take twice as many seats out of inventory without paying for it.
If I were running Southwest I'd be a lot more circumspect about these cancellations. The unintended consequences are frightening to contemplate. I don't think it's broken enough to need fixing.
Mar 20, 2017, 7:34 am
#78
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 152
This happened to me. Going to New England in Sept. Flight out there is a JetBlue redeye. Booked a one-way Boston to California Sept 6 with points a few weeks ago. Family reunion plans are evolving, so I recently booked another one-way (also with points) Manchester (MHT) to California Sept 7. A couple days ago received cancellation email for the BOS-California one-way without explanation. Stunned (I thought maybe someone had hacked my email to get my confirm # to mess with me!), and honestly not sure why the flight was cancelled, I called (1 hour on the phone) and they explained that new booking system is catching these so-called "double bookings". Luckily they sorted it out for me, I got my BOS flight back, and didn't lose any points. I still can't believe it. No warning, two flights from different cities, not even the same day! I don't trust them to honor a basic booking anymore. I agree, NOT ACCEPTABLE.
The same fares on the other airlines (i.e., the fares with no change fee) are far more expensive. They will also cancel your duplicate bookings just like Southwest. No airline wants you as a customer because you take twice as many seats out of inventory without paying for it.
Mar 20, 2017, 8:23 am
#79
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: SLC
Programs: DL PM, Hilton/Marriott Gold
Posts: 971
I would argue the description posted here is not a duplicate booking. While it would be difficult, it is certainly not physically impossible for the poster to fly both these flights. If this is considered a duplicate booking, then what the heck is SW's definition of a duplicate booking?
Mar 20, 2017, 8:26 am
#80
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 1,868
This one makes me nervous, because I've done some mileage run trips that would apparently get canceled under this new rule. Heck, my schedule has just plain gotten weird before and I've taken the same trip two days in a row. Not transcon, I guess, but I don't feel like that should matter. Wathing this thread with interest and concern.
Mar 20, 2017, 8:34 am
#81
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 152
It is very likely the case that there is no way for the poster to fly BOS-Cali, then get back to MHT *On Southwest* to fly MHT-Cali the next day (the last connections to MHT from the west coast leave around 2 pm). I can't imagine their system accounts for the possibility of you having reservations on other carriers when locating and flagging "impossible" bookings.
Mar 20, 2017, 9:09 am
#82
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: SLC
Programs: DL PM, Hilton/Marriott Gold
Posts: 971
Taking it a step further, should WN also not cancel duplicate reservations where it is impossible to make it back to the origin of ticket #2 on *any* airline, but it could be done on a private jet? Or if a Citation X isn't fast enough, maybe the USAF will let you catch a ride on an F-15E. The line has to be drawn somewhere, and I've yet to see any examples on here of legitimate travel being affected, only people booking backup WGA reservations.
Mar 20, 2017, 9:15 am
#83
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: RNO
Programs: AA/DL/UA
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Ironically this new policy enforcement could hasten the end of No Change Fees. Some customers will move their primary bookings to other airlines and book only the backup flights on Southwest, canceling almost all of them. Southwest's problem could get worse, not better, because of the new policy. The only complete solution is to impose change fees, which would reduce Southwest's market share as it would become just another airline.
If I were running Southwest I'd be a lot more circumspect about these cancellations. The unintended consequences are frightening to contemplate. I don't think it's broken enough to need fixing.
If I were running Southwest I'd be a lot more circumspect about these cancellations. The unintended consequences are frightening to contemplate. I don't think it's broken enough to need fixing.
But if you're right and people book lots of tickets on WN just to cancel them, I think what WN will do is not institute change fees (as that would affect everyone not just the double bookers which are a minority) but will instead ban you from booking anything on WN. Every airline has the right to refuse to sell you tickets if you are a habitual ticket canceller.
Mar 20, 2017, 10:15 am
#84
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Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Chicagoland, IL, USA
Programs: WN CP, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 14,192
Aren't there still couriers who hand-deliver documents/repair parts/organs for transplant?
Or possibly very specialized repair techs?
Seems like they would be affected here possibly.
Or possibly very specialized repair techs?
Seems like they would be affected here possibly.
Mar 20, 2017, 11:58 am
#85
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: SLC
Programs: DL PM, Hilton/Marriott Gold
Posts: 971
This is all about closing a loophole. People with legitimate edge cases will be taken care of, but claiming that you'll move heaven and earth to get back to your origin on a non-southwest flight an hour/day later to take the same (or very similar) flight again probably won't get much sympathy.
Mar 20, 2017, 2:26 pm
#86
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 4,972
System is likely not programmed for the edge cases. Have a feeling it won't be for a long time so be prepared for a lot of time with customer service.
Good news: my flight from a few pages back is sticking after CS fixed it.
Bad news: Booked a new trip where I need to be in LA for a few hours before flying back to origin and then onto another destination later the same day for work. There is a good amount of time between trips. System automatically cancelled the outbound trip later in the day. Will need to call and get it corrected, but right now it seems like its just looking at a 24 hour period and not whether or not you can make all of the flights.
If this continues then it will suck. I have to call and spend a good chunk of time on the phone explaining why my flights are set in a certain way. Not how I like to spend my time when giving my money to an airline.
Good news: my flight from a few pages back is sticking after CS fixed it.
Bad news: Booked a new trip where I need to be in LA for a few hours before flying back to origin and then onto another destination later the same day for work. There is a good amount of time between trips. System automatically cancelled the outbound trip later in the day. Will need to call and get it corrected, but right now it seems like its just looking at a 24 hour period and not whether or not you can make all of the flights.
If this continues then it will suck. I have to call and spend a good chunk of time on the phone explaining why my flights are set in a certain way. Not how I like to spend my time when giving my money to an airline.
Mar 20, 2017, 7:48 pm
#87
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Nashville, TN
Programs: WN Nothing and spending the half million points from too many flights, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 8,043
Two things. I have no problem booking BS and then moving it around as needed. However, we are now in the middle of Spring Break, I am on a job with a variable end, and even if I want to move flights, they may not be available at any price. In the past I would have booked Friday and Saturday. Now, if I finish early I hope for availability on Friday. However, I knew it was a rule easily broken, so now it is how should always have been.
This also seems to create problems for commuter routes, particularly intra-California, intra-Texas and maybe some east coast cities. There have been times when I was working in Southern California and had to make a quick run up to SMF. Same for DAL-SAT. These schedules were not multiple reservations but flights I fully intended to fly.
This also seems to create problems for commuter routes, particularly intra-California, intra-Texas and maybe some east coast cities. There have been times when I was working in Southern California and had to make a quick run up to SMF. Same for DAL-SAT. These schedules were not multiple reservations but flights I fully intended to fly.
Mar 20, 2017, 8:04 pm
#88
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 12
Ironically this new policy enforcement could hasten the end of No Change Fees. Some customers will move their primary bookings to other airlines and book only the backup flights on Southwest, canceling almost all of them. Southwest's problem could get worse, not better, because of the new policy. The only complete solution is to impose change fees, which would reduce Southwest's market share as it would become just another airline.
If I were running Southwest I'd be a lot more circumspect about these cancellations. The unintended consequences are frightening to contemplate. I don't think it's broken enough to need fixing.
If I were running Southwest I'd be a lot more circumspect about these cancellations. The unintended consequences are frightening to contemplate. I don't think it's broken enough to need fixing.
If SWA considers me a bad customer and doesn't want my money, so be it. There are plenty of other airlines who will take my $ rather than fly empty jets around at enormous expense.
Mar 20, 2017, 8:11 pm
#89
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 12
This also seems to create problems for commuter routes, particularly intra-California, intra-Texas and maybe some east coast cities. There have been times when I was working in Southern California and had to make a quick run up to SMF. Same for DAL-SAT. These schedules were not multiple reservations but flights I fully intended to fly.
Last edited by ftnoob; Mar 21, 2017 at 10:44 pm Reason: Fix markup
Mar 21, 2017, 1:10 pm
#90
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 152
System is likely not programmed for the edge cases. Have a feeling it won't be for a long time so be prepared for a lot of time with customer service.
Good news: my flight from a few pages back is sticking after CS fixed it.
Bad news: Booked a new trip where I need to be in LA for a few hours before flying back to origin and then onto another destination later the same day for work. There is a good amount of time between trips. System automatically cancelled the outbound trip later in the day. Will need to call and get it corrected, but right now it seems like its just looking at a 24 hour period and not whether or not you can make all of the flights.
If this continues then it will suck. I have to call and spend a good chunk of time on the phone explaining why my flights are set in a certain way. Not how I like to spend my time when giving my money to an airline.
Good news: my flight from a few pages back is sticking after CS fixed it.
Bad news: Booked a new trip where I need to be in LA for a few hours before flying back to origin and then onto another destination later the same day for work. There is a good amount of time between trips. System automatically cancelled the outbound trip later in the day. Will need to call and get it corrected, but right now it seems like its just looking at a 24 hour period and not whether or not you can make all of the flights.
If this continues then it will suck. I have to call and spend a good chunk of time on the phone explaining why my flights are set in a certain way. Not how I like to spend my time when giving my money to an airline.