justhere

That would have been a handy piece of information to have 5 pages ago. Would have saved a lot of back and forth about a procedure that's got a limited shelf life.

Anyway, no need to write any letters. There's only so many ways to follow the DOT rules and even if those were to change, there are still only so many ways to board an aircraft. Especially as everything starts with "does the airline have reserved or open seating".

I guess I should have started with what change? Either you know something most of us don't, in which case why hold that back and have a pointless discussion, or, well, you know.....Occam's razor and all that.

LegalTender

A 14th century friar wouldn't know.

That's when WN's new $500 million IT will allow for assigned seating and the revenue potential that comes with it. If corporate doesn't mess with the pre-boarding fiasco, you will be golden. But I will be shocked.

Now Southwest Can Act Like Other Airlines

Except the issue was whether airlines' blocking off row/seats better meets the disabled's needs.

I contend §382.83(c) does not exempt WN from having to provide "an adequate number of seats used to provide the seating accommodations required by §382.81."

Pre-boarders in one big scrum intensify hit-or-miss seating accommodations.

nitab62

Kevin, first let me say thank you for having the courage to state your opinion and share your experience. It always astonishes me how folks want to demonize others because they have a different view. Instead of calling you ignorant, they should know they speak from ignorance and should state their opinion and then hush up.

Correct, why is it if I needed time to get on the plane, that I would not need time or a wheel chair to get off the plane?
How is extra time defined? (If I have overloaded my bag and need extra time to force in the overhead and take space from other travelers because I am too cheap to check bag)
If I am so frail, should I stay home?

I could go on. The one thing my parents taught us (or most families at the time) is not to inconvenience others. Today, many folks try to figure out how to inconvenience others and this is one of those examples where I am sure there are a few folks who actually need assistance and more time (My 87 yr old mother refused to pre-board).
Values and morals are lacking today and show up in all of the ways we tell folks they are entitled vs not; parking spaces, pre-boarding, etc.

I am sure my parents and ancestors are turning over in their graves because they did not pre-board because of young children, (yeah, they stayed home), road the bus when they were pregnant (so don't need those spaces) and did not use a wheel chair because walking was difficult (walking helps most ailments) Oh, I carry on those principles today on unselfishly sharing the space.

rsteinmetz70112

What makes you think Southwest will ever change it's policy?

respawn

My best suggestion for those complaining about the pre-board situation: don't fly SW. Instead, fly a traditional airline with assigned seats. Problem solved.

I have flown injured a couple of times. In the first case, I broke my wrist and elbow while on a guy's trip. I had to rebook my flight to fly home early and used points to upgrade to first since I would be needing the extra elbow room. No problems there. In my second situation it was flying for Thanksgiving a few weeks after the injury. We booked on DL and made sure to choose assigned seats that allowed myself and my fiance to sit together. No problem there either.

So... the moral of the story is simply: don't ..... about unassigned seats on Southwest.

Airrage

Easy to fix... Do not fly SW. I avoid them like the Plague.

ursine1

I'd be shocked if WN changes it's boarding policy significantly. Just because they can is not a valid reason.

Amicus

Oh my, what I have missed in not reading FlyerTalk for a while.

First, I have been A+ and a CP holder for a few years. Often, I fly BS, just because of last minute bookings, the fare differential is nominal.

Recently, I have also had to pre-board, something I had never experienced in all those years of flying WN . . . until now.

Common civility is clearly out the window. My CP holder ALWAYS takes the middle seat when I preboard, and I don't understand why this even needs to be discussed here. Why should the "able bodied" person leave a middle seat open if you are accompanying a preboarder? That's just rude.

Just a note, also, that some preboarders are not moving up 60-90 places in line for free, as some might just be A or A+ anyway. But, before my recent preboarding need, I must say I often felt "cheated" when I was holding that A16, and the gate agent was selling spaces in line ahead of me for $30.

A few customers might be "scamming" the system by claiming to need to preboard, but it is far worse when WN is scamming its most loyal customers by zooming someone without status to the front of the line.

JSBrewerJr

Have to share a story that will either make you laugh, cry or hit something...

Was boarding LUV OAK-PDX about a year ago. Arrived at OAK gate to find 16 people in wheelchairs. 16 people. Either a retirement home booked the flight (no sign of a group leader or manager, so I doubt it...), or everyone on the flight over the age of 65 decided to skip the Business Select fee and take a wheelchair so they could get seats in the front of the plane.

I took a picture of the gate area and posted it on my Twitter feed. Went viral for about 3 weeks, hundreds of and replies.

JSBrewerJr

You do realize there's a latch on the underside of every 737 aisle seat armrest that allows the armrest to be lifted up and stowed adjacent to the seat back, right?

jamesteroh

I wonder how many of those 16 passengers ended up walking off the plane and how many needed wheelchairs

wedgeclose

Why does it seem like more than half the people travelling seen to be "handicapped"? We all know the scam....I'll ask for a wheelchair at the curb when I depart because.....I want to get wheeled through security and straight to the gate. I want to get on the plane first..so I can exit first and call larry while we are still taxiing to let him know...I have a carryon and will be out in a jiffy. No one who needs a wheelchair to board SHOULD BE ALLOWED A CARRYON! Why? because god forbid there is an emergency THEY WILL NOT LEAVE THAT DAMN PLANE WITHOUT THAT CARRY ON! Why not let the pre boarders Handicappers BOARD THROUGH THE BACK DOOR AND SIT BACK THERE. After all....they will be closer to the LAVS (2) and be able to take their time getting on and off the pot. ALSO...NEVER EVER ALLOW A PRE BOARD TO SIT IN AN EXIT ROW!!!!!NEVER!!!!YOU WANT A PRIME SEAT.....PAY FOR IT!!!!!!!...I can't wait for all the replies now....My husband has a cold.....my wife has hammer toes.....I have been suffering with asthma all my life....there just can't be EVERYONE WITH A COLD SUDDENLY HANDICAPPED!

justhere

Your post (post#108) said "Carriers are required (§382.81) 'to block an adequate number of the seats used to provide disabled seating accommodations'."

That's not correct. The verbiage you used comes straight from 382.83(a)(1). That section is preceded by 382.83(a) which says "If you are a carrier that provides advance seat assignments to passengers...". WN isn't so 382.83(a)(1) isn't applicable to WN. So WN doesn't need to block any seats because they have to allow preboarding which opens up the whole plane.

The whole notion of open seating is one big scrum so why single out preboarders?

I don't think anyone said someone needing extra time to board doesn't need extra time to get off. And you do know that inconveniencing others goes both ways, right? For example, many folks in this thread want to inconvenience people with disabilities.
Because if the preboarder needs an aisle seat and cannot get up without assistance, how is their companion going to get up before them to help them if their companion is in the middle seat? Not everyone fits that situation but for those that do, aisle/aisle works. It also leaves a middle and window for any couple that wants two seats together.
Preboarders cannot sit in exit rows so that's not an issue. Have you ever boarded a plane before? How many times have you seen a second jetway that goes to the back door of the plane? How are you going to board preboarders through the back door exactly?

LegalTender

if walk-aboard pre-boarders grab bulkhead aisle seats, Southwest isn't allowing passengers specified in §382.81 the chance to select the seat that best meets their needs. Where they enter the pre-board scrum is anybody's guess.

Block, don't block.

But WN needs to take ownership of the pre-boarding parody.

justhere

Correct. As I've already posted, WN's preboard policy doesn't say that passengers just needing extra time can preboard.

To be clear, there are at least two things going on in this thread. One is where preboarders should sit and how they should be treated, etc, and the other is WN's boarding procedure. Lots of overlap but not exactly the same thing.

The OP was denigrating people with disabilities, as were other people in this thread. Your posts, at least the last ones, are about WN's boarding policy and procedure.

I think people treating disabled people like second-class citizens who are more trouble than they are worth are just ignorant.

I think your point, as well as others, about WN needing to change its boarding process is a valid point. Whether I or anyone else agrees or disagrees is simply a matter of opinion.

That said, I hope you see where WN's only choice is to either change their process to assigned seating or get the DOT to approve a different process with unassigned seating.

WN already, by its policy which is posted on its webpage, doesn't count preboarders just needing additional time in their preboard process so they don't need to block seats. The problem is, as is the case with many of the boarding issues, that the WN employee in charge of controlling it (i.e. the gate agent) doesn't always control it and lets people who just need additional time to preboard with all preboarders. I certainly agree that is a problem and WN could go along way with many of its customers if they just enforced that one rule.