Rapid Rewards devaluation coming April 17, 2015
Apr 17, 2015, 9:03 am
#451
Join Date: May 2007
Location: DFW
Programs: WN A+, AA, HYATT DIAMOND, SPG
Posts: 1,125
Thanks for that analysis, lowfareair. That's exactly the strategy I expected them to use, with the objective of minimizing displacement of cash purchases.
Those of us who seek out the lowest fares for redemption to get the best value will continue to succeed.
This makes me wonder whether Southwest really needed to change from 60 to 70 points per dollar when they could have had a sliding scale from 60 to 90.
Those of us who seek out the lowest fares for redemption to get the best value will continue to succeed.
This makes me wonder whether Southwest really needed to change from 60 to 70 points per dollar when they could have had a sliding scale from 60 to 90.
They probably felt some pain from the last devaluation. Here they've made it where they don't have to advertise a deval at all.
In effect, they've just told us they'll raise the number of pts needed whenever they damn well please and not suffer the concerted bad pub with an announcement.
Apr 17, 2015, 9:09 am
#452
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: USA
Programs: AC SE100K, F9 100k, NK Gold, UA *S, Hyatt Glob, Bonvoy Titanium
Posts: 5,197
Southwest definitely succeeded in hiding the new redemption amounts. Even experienced FTers are having to double and triple check the ratios because their first calculations are wrong.
The average 'kettle' twice a year flyer won't even notice 70 vs 76 vs 90 pts/$1.
The average 'kettle' twice a year flyer won't even notice 70 vs 76 vs 90 pts/$1.
Apr 17, 2015, 9:10 am
#453
Join Date: May 2007
Location: DFW
Programs: WN A+, AA, HYATT DIAMOND, SPG
Posts: 1,125
"We'll raise the points needed whenever we want and the vast majority of people will never notice".
Apr 17, 2015, 9:12 am
#454
Join Date: May 2007
Location: DFW
Programs: WN A+, AA, HYATT DIAMOND, SPG
Posts: 1,125
Apr 17, 2015, 10:11 am
#455
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: DFW
Programs: AA PLT, HH Gold, SPG/Marriott Gold
Posts: 1,091
Just a quick note, a fare from DAL-MDW last night was 16,729 and now it's 18,640. It was a Labor Day weekend fare.
Base fare is 238.98 each way, so it went from 70 pts/$ to almost 78 pts/$.
Base fare is 238.98 each way, so it went from 70 pts/$ to almost 78 pts/$.
Apr 17, 2015, 11:21 am
#456
Moderator: Southwest Airlines, Capital One
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: California
Programs: WN Companion Pass, A-list preferred, Hyatt Globalist; United Club Lietime (sic) Member
Posts: 21,624
Apr 17, 2015, 11:27 am
#457
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 1,012
It's certainly not the end of the world but it's not great. Up to 11% increase in point redemption just a year after devaluing them 16% percent? Now it's up to a 30% increase in points required in barely over a year. I think it's actually a smart plan, even if it's not entirely transparent, to vary the points based on certain factors. I just wish they had implemented this last year, it's a little bit of kicking us while we are down.
Or am I not remembering this correctly?
Apr 17, 2015, 11:33 am
#458
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: ORD/MDW
Programs: AA EXP, DL-Plat, WN-CP | Hotels: Choice-Gld, IHG-Plt, Rad-Gld, HH-Dia, Hyatt-Glob, Marriott-LtPlt
Posts: 2,889
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the points actually go up in value at some point? I thought that initially all of the taxes were tacked on at the end and weren't covered by points (I supposed this was before the law changed requiring airlines to show the final fare price).
Or am I not remembering this correctly?
Or am I not remembering this correctly?
RAPID REWARDS 2.X: Beginning in 2011, Southwest moved from a "credit" based frequent flyer program to a "revenue" based frequent flyer program using "points" that FTers dubbed "Rapid Rewards 2.0." Since its implementation, the number of RR points was directly related to the paid fare (60-70 pts. per $1 WGA fares; 100 pts. per $1 AT fares; & 120 pts. per $1 BS fares). It has only made economic sense to redeem for WGA points fares during Rapid Rewards 2.0. As I see it...
- Rapid Rewards 2.0 existed from 3/1/2011-1/26/2014 (60 pts/$1 of WGA fare RR redemptions - 3 month advance notice of change);
- Rapid Rewards 2.0.1 existed from 1/27/2014-3/30/2014 (Earnings/Redemptions changed to Base Fare Only {formerly Base Fare + Excise Tax} - with no advance notice);
- Rapid Rewards 2.1 existed from 3/31/2014-4/16/2015 (70 pts/$1 WGA RR redemptions - with 5+ month advance notice); and
- Rapid Rewards 2.2 will exist from 4/17/2015-[???????] (Pts/$1 ratio no longer constant - with 2 month advance notice).
Apr 17, 2015, 12:02 pm
#459
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: MCI
Programs: Southwest A-List, AMC Stubs A-List, Chick-fil-A-List
Posts: 399
The calculation looks to be fare based, even for the same flight. You can test it by finding a flight with only one seat in the lowest bucket.
Here's a good example: MCI-LAX June 6 #2735
Base fare for one passenger: $142.23 / 9956 points / 70 pts per $
Base per passenger fare for two passengers, same flight: $162.70 / 12040 points / 74 pts per $
(Not that I'd ever book more than one passenger per PNR)
Here's a good example: MCI-LAX June 6 #2735
Base fare for one passenger: $142.23 / 9956 points / 70 pts per $
Base per passenger fare for two passengers, same flight: $162.70 / 12040 points / 74 pts per $
(Not that I'd ever book more than one passenger per PNR)
Apr 17, 2015, 12:22 pm
#460
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: New England
Programs: WN A&cp, SPGplat
Posts: 89
Thou shalt not infer too much from limited data, but...to summarize: point premium increases as WGA fare increases above minimum; point premium starts sooner and is higher for non-stops. Here's DEN-LAS on 5/22 (chosen because there is a wide range of flights):
Last edited by ray1111; Apr 17, 2015 at 12:49 pm
Apr 17, 2015, 12:38 pm
#461
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Aug 2003
Programs: UA 1K 1MM (finally!), IHG AMB-Spire, HH Diamond
Posts: 60,174
Bottom line this is a devaluation. We can cheer it's not as awful as it could have been, but that is pretty empty.
Having said that, it could have been worse
What is really alarming is the number of times this has been recalibrated (for the worse) in the past 2-3 years.
Having said that, it could have been worse
What is really alarming is the number of times this has been recalibrated (for the worse) in the past 2-3 years.
Apr 17, 2015, 12:52 pm
#462
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 1,012
Apr 17, 2015, 1:03 pm
#463
Join Date: Oct 2001
Programs: LTP, PP
Posts: 8,700
Apr 17, 2015, 1:04 pm
#464
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: ORD/MDW
Programs: AA EXP, DL-Plat, WN-CP | Hotels: Choice-Gld, IHG-Plt, Rad-Gld, HH-Dia, Hyatt-Glob, Marriott-LtPlt
Posts: 2,889
First generation RR 2.0 was 60 pts/$1 on (base fare + excise tax).
Excise tax is 7.5%.
So, the comparative rate under first generation RR 2.0 was 64.5 pts/$1 of base fare.
Under the current scheme, the best one can do is 70 pts/$1 of base fare.
Apr 17, 2015, 1:32 pm
#465
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 5,813