Don�t you think you�re way over the top?

As you really seem to be filled with hatred against AC and its employees, it�s unlikely I�ll be able to convince you otherwise, but have you noticed that many people find AC is one of the best airlines in the western world (better than any of its counterparts in the US and competitive with or better than most European airlines)?

Even why fly, who often bashes AC, agrees that AC�s product is better than that of most US airlines.

Jasper I simply disagree when it comes to the company culture that has fostered this 'anti-customer' sentiment.

I'm also not saying American airlines are better or worse. Don't take this the wrong way as I know you are comparing AC to US airlines simply because I am in Rhode Island.

However this is the sort of "Air Canada" thinking I am talking about. They only compare themselves with the US. What they should be looking at is can we hang with Cathay Pacific or Singapore Airlines or Emirates Airlines.

Anyways, they've burned me too many times.

i can tell u, if you speak their language and slang....+ the timing of when they becoming rude... i can tell u SQ and CX have very rude flight attendants too.....

+1

Probably do.

But what I'm saying is Air Canada seems to be the dumping ground for rude, grumpy and permanently dour Canadians in need of a job. If you think Air Canada is in the same stratosphere as Cathy etc. then you've simply lost the plot.

This airline is simply overrun with p*55ed off employees who hate the company, the job and us.

I have met a few employees that suit your description (old, grumpy, complaining stewardesses and GAs who haven�t noticed AC isn�t a government agency, but a company in the service sector in a highly competitive environment), but I wouldn�t say this is a problem typical of AC, this problem occurs whenever you have a strong union, and to be honest this problem is much bigger in the US and Europe than it is in Canada.

I�ve probably dealt with a few hundred AC employees this year and the average employee has been very friendly, helpful and perfectly aware that great service will make a customer happy and loyal and pay their salaries.

I think I have only met one rude employee this year, some who were indifferent and a large majority who provided great service.
I guess I wouldn�t be flying Europe-US via Canada if the employees suited your description.

To be fair, I have met some good employees as well. However the proportion of rude employees is far higher than in any other airline I've ever met. The other thing with AC is the awful employees have a much larger footprint than other airlines. The web support, the 800 number, aeroplan, the check in attendants, the gate staff (ESPECIALLY THE GATE STAFF), the crew and finally the customer complaint email all have a healthy portion of people who simply are not happy at anything they do on the clock.

Its an company culture that permeates every corner of the airline. Couple that with management that needs to be combative with these people and trying to turn a profit in this sector is bad news.

I'm probably spoiled. Because of my job I go to Europe 3 times a year and fly Virgin to London or Lufthansa to Frankfurt, I go to Guam once a year and fly Asian airlines, I go to Japan once a year and fly various Asian airlines, I go to Florida 6 times a year and fly Southwest and then...................I go to Winnipeg, Edmonton and Victoria each 3 times a year and I'm stuck on this ridiculous airline.

With loyal customer there was/is almost no AC.... they did go into receivership a few years back.

AC has a loyal government... it let them away with over $1 billion in pension owing, now this year its lending AC $500 million.

So thats all AC really needs a sympathetic govt.

and this is exactly why all these employees are irate. I don't like dealing with these customer-service-challenged people either, but the airline, the bankruptcy and the cuts have hit them in the pocketbook. All they see is passengers who demand cheaper fares and a company that kicked them to the curb and then magically reformed sans pensions the next day.

They are all mad as h*ll and their response is to provide bad service with a scowl and an attitude.


To the OP's point, there never will be a VP of customer loyalty. It should actually be titled the VP of customer/hostage services. The vast majority of customers are stuck with Air Canada or hitchiking. We have no choice but to fly this ridiculous airline.

The company culture is poisoned. Its like a well that people have dumped tar, human excrement, garbage, nuclear waste, dead animals and old boots down for 15 years. The fact you put up a new sign saying "Fresh Water" and stop pouring crap down the well, doesn't mean its safe to drink.

5-10 years ago I used to avoid AC exactly because of the staff attitude. I did most of my flying on NW, KL and CO (was top tier on NW for years). Have also flown JL, NH, SQ, NZ, LH, SK, AG, LX, AF, AY, BD, BA, UA, US, AA, etc etc so I have some perspective (admittedly no CX or EK but unless those two are amazingly special ...).

I started switching to AC (and *A) in 2007, and these days I find vast majority of the AC staff at least helpful, polite and professional (and many helpful and friendly above and beyond the call of duty). But then I find that being friendly and polite to AC staff (as well as any other people one deals with day to day) tends to produce the most friendly and helpful responses as well. That goes for FAs. SDs, GAs, the E/SE agents -- and even most AP staff (who are not AC employees). Sometimes someone will be having a bad day, but we're all human, and I can accept that once in a while.

Complaints staff? Web support? I use the web forms for that, and even there the responses are professional, even if not always what I wished for in terms of substance.

But that's my personal experience, each person will see things differently. In my old age, I have amazingly begun to see the glass as half full.

I'm glad its working out for you Tom.

To be fair I flew with AC mainly from 1994-2005. After 2005 when two disastrous trips, back-to-back really made me rethink my travel. Since then, and the insane complaints department, I now will do absolutely anything to avoid them. I even take VIA from Montreal to Toronto now.

I still have to get on AC metal a couple of times a year. Maybe my numerous poor experiences have left me jaded so that nothing they do will ever be right. Maybe. But I fly a lot of airlines, I stay in a lot of hotels, I rent a lot of cars and I eat in a lot of restaurants. I still think AC and Aeroplan has a larger number of grumpy, surly, rude employees who dislike Air Canada and dislike the customer than almost any other company I deal with.

If you need to find others, I can point you to a number of US airlines with even surlier, grumpier staff. And, yes, all of them have been through Chapter 11 and/or mergers and layoffs, and some have taken away the employees' pensions. (Many UA FAs are working well beyond retirement age since they lost their pensions; the oldest ones are apparently in their 80s.)

YUP!

Again. This unique Canadian comparison. Try to think beyond the USA. The world is a big place. If you are going to compare Air Canada to only American airlines and forget about the rest of the world thats fine.


Its bizarre. When I lived in Winnipeg for 2 years I had a weird experience. Canadian people had this bizarre "superiority/inferiority" complex with the USA. Anything that could be compared to the USA was constantly talked about. If people had any opinion at all of America they figured it was their God given right to complain to me about anything American. Yet when a band like Bare Naked Ladies or Tragically Hip played in town it was "just a Canadian band". You could have any 4 idiots from Michigan show up and it was an event. At the time the Winnipeg Thunder played basketball in a league with teams from no name towns in North Dakota, place was packed. I'm talking 7-8000 fans. The league collapses so the Thunder join a Canadian league and get 200 fans to see Calgary or Montreal. I've never actually figured it out If a show was on tv and was Canadian, it was "just a Canadian show" if it was an American show, people watched it. (ok the Littlest Hobo was pretty crummy) but this constant response of covering up all of Air Canada's problems by comparing them to US airlines is selling yourself short.


Again, try to think about Cathay Pacific, try to think about Emirates, they hammer Air Canada hands down. This is the national airline. Lets compare against a little bit of a global standard here and quit making excuses for this joke of an airline

Ok, I�ll bite, as I�m still hoping you�ll eventually stop posting ridiculous AC bashing posts (I don�t mind the fact that you dislike AC, it�s just the way you present your hatred), but rather engage in a factual discussion.

When comparing airlines I think most FTers will agree that the following aspects are the most important ones:

1. onboard experience: hard product
2. onboard experience: service, soft product
3. loyalty program
4. ground experience: check-in, GAs etc.
5. customer service

Just a few thoughts on how AC compares internationally (not considering the US airlines, as you requested):

1. hard product in Y and C is very competitive or better than most European and Asian airlines: AVOD in Y even on all domestic flights, lie-flat pods in C on all int�l flights, consistent product (the only better C product I can think of is SQ�s new C seat which only is available on some flights)

2. service: definitely competitive with most European airlines, service on some Asian airlines possibly is better, but not everyone likes the "service style" on Asian carriers. Also staff is much cheaper in most Asian countries, so making a comparison is somewhat difficult/unfair IMO. (e.g. EK has 4 staff members just to clean the shower room on the A380, and you can bet they don�t earn more than a few $/hour)

3. loyalty program: FTers will have very different opinions regarding this aspect, but most agree Elite status benefits are very good, lounges are pretty decent, and redemption rates for int�l C and F are quite good
(Btw, redemption rates for C/F on EK are quite bad, and SQ blocks C/F redemptions alltogether or charges ridiculous amounts of miles, e.g. 2 million miles for a flight in F)

4. again very similar to European airlines; some Asian airlines possible have better service, but friendly, always smiling staff is useless if they�re incompetent

5. Unfortunately I can�t think of an airplane famous of great customer service (check out the various forums and you�ll see plenty of complaints in the TG, SQ, EK forum). I personally haven�t had any issues with AC and have been quite happy so far, just an experience I had this week:

a) I bought a TATL ticket in booking class B on AC for Dec. and upgraded to Exec. Class using a cert. I received both an e-mail and a phone call this week that there had been a schedule and equipment change, confirming I was of course still confirmed in Exec. class and asked what seat I would like. Great proactive customer service! ^

b) I had a confirmed booking in First Class ZHR-NRT on LX in Dec. When I checked my flight in Amadeus, I noticed I had been rebooked on a flight a day earlier on LH in business class. Apparently my original flight had been cancelled. Guess what? LX didn�t even bother to inform me. Even worse, I spent 4 hours on the phone with several agents and supervisors until they admitted they had made the change and promised to rebook me in F. 4 days later I�m still waiting.