FlyingMoose

Hilton either can't get the Nordics to work or doesn't make an effort, their hotels in this region are at best appalling. The Hilton Stockholm has a great location but it seems to be a perpetual building site. The Helsinki ones are meh though one of them has nice views. The Tallinn one is probably the only one that is half on par. They got rid of the Copenhagen and Oslo properties for some reason. Go slightly more south in Europe and they have many great properties.

GUWonder

The Hilton CPH airport property got reflagged as a Choice/Clarion hotel. Perhaps that was part of a tie-in to Nordic Choice developing the Comfort CPH next door.

Hilton's commitment to the continental Scandinavian countries has never recovered since Hilton ditched Scandic. FWIW, IHG and Accor also had traction problems.

Nowadays, even Hyatt has more choices in the continental Scandinavian countries than Hilton.

IIRC, Hilton got into bed with Scandic c. 2001. By 2007, the separation process between the two was already in progress . That ditching of Scandic was a consequence of the US Hilton reconciling with the UK Hilton/Hilton Worldwide part of Hilton c. 2006.

https://www.travelweekly.com/Travel-...c-Hotels-brand

[I could say a few things about EQT, but I won't here.]

In 2008, I noticed that I been a casualty of the final divorce. I had been burned by the final split when somehow Scandic (in Copenhagen) managed to draw down Hilton points out of my account for stays where I had already presented Hilton award certificates in paper forum that covered those stays in 2007. Neither Scandic nor Hilton ever did me right for that blunder on their part despite my well-documented paper trail at the time. Don't recall how many Hilton points I lost because Hilton let Scandic draw down my account even after I had already had my account drawn down to get the proper paper award certificates (with certificate numbers) to use for at least a dozen Scandic Copenhagen room nights in 2007. It was a great (but expensive points) lesson in how Scandinavian/European customer service was not going to amount to what I was accustomed to elsewhere. Since then, I've done as little business as I conveniently could with Hilton and Scandics in the continental Scandinavian countries. I now even have more Hyatt nights annually in Scandinavia than Hilton+Scandic nights in Scandinavia. And it would take quite a bit to pull me off from Marriott+Hyatt+Nordic Choice hotels in the region, something that I don't see Hilton being able to pull off anytime soon.

CPH-Flyer

Hilton UK apparently offered 612 million GBP in 2001 for Scandic, without googling the detailed exchange rates, it does not seem that it would have been a great deal to sell it again 6 years later for 1.1 billion USD. Depending on how many assets they cashed in on along the way, apart from your point stash that is.....

GUWonder

They call venture capitalists vulture capitalists at times. Say the same and then some for private equity companies which play in more than just the venture capital arena. EQT found something they could try to sell to their own investors when Scandic hit the market, so they grabbed it for what they thought was a good deal. Perhaps the Hiltons found that being unencumbered from the Scandic relationship and selling off the tattered wedding dress and rusty costume jewelry would help finance its shotgun wedding to make for one big happy Hilton family.

Eventually, EQT then decided to get Scandic a Nasdaq OMX listing -- about a decade ago -- as part of maximizing its return on the Scandic acquisition. Until EQT came into the picture, Scandic was probably en route to going the way of Howard Johnson.

Scandinavia is the region in the world where my nightly hotel costs are lower now than they were 15 years ago.

nacho

Which major hotel chain (Hilton, IHG, Hyatt, Marriott) can really get things to work in Scandinavia? CPH Marriott is not great, it's my no go hotel after being treated like crap and the lounge was packed with drunk Swedes and zero upgrade as elite. Moxy is basically a en-suite hostel, it works because of the pricing (and for people don't have enough points to stay at CPH Marriott) - I'd prefer Scandic than Moxy (free breakfast worth a lot in Scandinavia).

Hilton by CPH was bad, I put Mr there when there was a $35 deal a while back through getaroom (it's cheaper than driving home and back to work). He said the room was in a bad state, lounge was ok-ish at best. Breakfast in the restaurant was the best part.

The best was the CP by CPH before 2010 - it was great in elite recognition, when they had 5000 points a night promo we booked a bunch as staycations. Plat got upgrade and access to the lounge. Again the hotel also got a lot of wear and tear throughout the years and the last time we stayed it was really worn down - no more upgrade and lounge access as Plat. The building in front of it blocks some of the views from the rooms too.

The Ren in Malmo didn't survive long either. We did staycation once there and it was nice.

Now Marriott has gone downhill that they don't have that much of brand standard left so these hotels might stay.

The problem is that those hotels are just marginally better than Scandic/BW/Choice while in the US the difference is huge. How can Marriott justify charging 2000kr a night while you can stay at a Scandic at 1500 a night at a better location? Same as the Moxy, there's a Scandic right across and why on earth would anyone paying the same to stay at Moxy vs Scandic with free breakfast?

GUWonder

Even all but one of the small handful of Hyatt hotels in Sweden include breakfast for those staying on award nights or nights booked directly with Hyatt. There is something almost religious with Swedish hotel demand and it needing to include a decent enough breakfast for guests in Sweden for a a Swedish hotel to not lose out business to campgrounds, hostels and cheaper, independent properties in the country or even abroad.

I can't imagine that inflation in Swedish food prices is doing great things for the Swedish hotels' financial statements; nor will it make Sweden an easier place for Hilton and Marriott to make major investments or find others to do so for it. Moxy seems to be the main thing Marriott is trying to expand out across continental Scandinavia, but Moxy means customers paying more but getting less included -- that's not really a winning proposition in these countries. Remember what happened to the Courtyard (by Marriott) effort in the region? Moxy is the sequel of that story. There is only so much easy Norwegian money to be thrown around before that too dries up.

CPH-Flyer

In terms of Marriott footprint, Belly Sky works really well for me. I book the cheapest cellar dungeon I can find on our corporate rate and always get one of the large corner rooms on the top floors. Sure they don't give me breakfast, but they have a fruit/croissant/coffee setup that works well for me to pop down to have a coffee and a bite during my morning calls. The staff are quite nice, and locations is actually not bad as the metro and bus number 18 gets me to most places I need to go pretty quickly. The Socialist also works well, though only when I want to splurge a bit.

I don't use Copenhagen Marriott that much, but I have to say that the new lounge on the ground floor has improved the experience quite a bit compared to when it was on the 10th floor (has been around for some years now), though recently the evening food took somewhat of a hit. It depends a bit on what the corporate rate comes out at whether I book here, usually if it goes much above 1300 per night I pick Bella Sky. Though during convention times, Bella can skyrocket in price, though mostly our corporate rate should come through. If it is not drunk Swedes in the Copenhagen lounge, it is obnoxious Americans in a Saigon lounge, or loud local staycation families in a Singapore lounge, hotel lounges are mostly overcrowded and not that relaxing. With the exception of Ritz Carlton, Intercontinental, and the likes where you do actually have to pay for the lounge access that is.

I would not pay 1500 for the Moxy in Copenhagen, I have stayed there but at about half that. But I can't think of a Scandic I would actually be willing pay 1,500 for in Copenhagen.

nacho

I haven't stayed at the Belly Sky, the location is great for public transport. The drunk Swedes at CPH Marriott weren't due to their status but the hotel sold them club access - so they basically grabbed bottles of wine to their tables. I haven't seen things like that in other lounges I went to.

I stayed at the Moxy CPH for 2 months as that was the cheapest option out there. I got a rate of 450kr a night plus parking (it's crazy that they charge 150kr a night for parking).

For Scandic, the ones in Sydhavn are usually fairly cheap. The one close to Nyhavn must be more expensive, that's why I think they might cost like 1500kr a night. That is more comparable with the Socialist because they are located in the same central area. I haven't stayed in the Radissons in Copenhagen (the one in Odense had free breakfast), and some of these hotels have better locations than CPH Marriott/Moxy.

vanillabean

At the Copenhagen airport, identical or fraternal twins?

Fredrik74

These are identical. It irritates me when such changes happen because I always wonder if I'm about to buy some limited offer I'm not interested in.

GUWonder

Or fraternal twins that look identical enough?

...... paging an optometrist.

FlyingMoose

I mostly appreciate the Autograph hotels through Marriott which offer a better stay/service/experience while earning Marriott points. The actual Marriots or Sheratons are pretty crappy in the Nordics. Usually cheap as well.

CPH-Flyer

I am probably more looking at individual properties in the markets I go a lot than specific brands. Autographs can be nice, but they can also be rather meh. But discussing Copenhagen and the Nordics, it does not really help me reminiscing about the St Regis, Editions, or Ritz-Carltons I'd much rather stay in, so I focus on finding something that works well for me.

When it had just opened, I kind of liked the courtyard in Stockholm. Though I have not been back in too many years to know what it offers now.

I notice there is a lot of Design Hotels in Stockholm, another weird mix of hotels where it is kind of impossible to know what to expect. Any experiences with them?

GUWonder

Which of the Design Hotel in particular are you thinking about in Stockholm? If there's a hotel in Stockholm that is available using points from US programs, I've probably used it.

Copenhagen has much more extreme price swings for hotel room rates during the year than Stockholm. I also tend to get better value for my points with Stockholm hotels than with Copenhagen hotels. That said, I used to save a boatload of money by buying points for last minute hotel nights at Radisson hotels in Copenhagen when the city was close to sold out or sold out of rooms at standard hotels for me.

The Courtyard Marriott in Stockholm is a property that has rarely been a good use of money or points for me given the alternatives and the opportunity costs. And given the Courtyard doesn't seem to want to pay to update exterior signage, I guess that speaks to the hotel not really being what its developers/owners were counting on it doing for Marriott in the region.

I really don't see the point of there being even more limited service big US brand hotels in Stockholm or even elsewhere in the country at this point especially.

FlyingMoose

The Courtyard is not great. In Stockholm I default to Nobis or Skeppsholmen in lieu of a Ritz, St Regis, Conrad or better. The restaurant at Nobis is excellent. Skeppsholmen wins on location.