Collective agreement for the pilots being negotiated
Jul 8, 2022, 8:30 pm
#316
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 1,656
For family reasons and VFR purposes, it could be personally more convenient for more such pilots (and their families) to have strikes take place during peak vacation periods and close to weekends/long weekends than at other times of the year.
Causing pain to the general public is contrary to gaining public sympathy. While the “I hate unions” crowd may think unions are self-defeating, the pilots aren’t out there to maximize pain to the general public and deliberately lose public sympathy at the same time. This PR concern is why the pilots offered to fly back the stranded charter tourists while SAS was opposed to making it a one-off — that is until SAS knew they would get called to the mat for leaving the charter tourists stranded if they didn’t agree with the striking pilots.
Causing pain to the general public is contrary to gaining public sympathy. While the “I hate unions” crowd may think unions are self-defeating, the pilots aren’t out there to maximize pain to the general public and deliberately lose public sympathy at the same time. This PR concern is why the pilots offered to fly back the stranded charter tourists while SAS was opposed to making it a one-off — that is until SAS knew they would get called to the mat for leaving the charter tourists stranded if they didn’t agree with the striking pilots.
Jul 8, 2022, 8:33 pm
#317
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,095
Jul 8, 2022, 8:37 pm
#318
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Tokyo
Programs: JAL Metal Card (OWE), SAS Eurobonus Gold (*G), Marriott Titanium (LTP), Tokyu Hotels Platinum
Posts: 21,178
SAS management caused this strike’s timing. If SAS hadn’t pushed the button for the nuclear option of using US jurisdiction and US bankruptcy code when it did, there wouldn’t be all these stranded charter flight passengers — of concern to both sides (for their own reasons) — from the time this started to hit the since stranded abroad charter flight tourists.
During Sunday and Monday leading in to the strike there are indeed indicators that management ended up being the more impatient side, which may indeed also have been triggered by the need to get the chapter 11 rolling. But to say the strike is solely happening due to SK management going for a chapter 11 a bit naïve. It is part of the picture, but it is not the full picture.
Jul 8, 2022, 8:39 pm
#319
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,095
The prior agreement expired 31st of March, the standard procedure would be to announce the strike announcements at the point, and them to kick in 14 days later. But the pilots for one reason or another chose to wait until mid June, working with an expired agreement until then. Is that because it was more opportune to have the strike in peak travel season? Admittedly, management could have used a lockout at that point to force the issue to be settled in April, and they did not.
During Sunday and Monday leading in to the strike there are indeed indicators that management ended up being the more impatient side, which may indeed also have been triggered by the need to get the chapter 11 rolling. But to say the strike is solely happening due to SK management going for a chapter 11 a bit naïve. It is part of the picture, but it is not the full picture.
During Sunday and Monday leading in to the strike there are indeed indicators that management ended up being the more impatient side, which may indeed also have been triggered by the need to get the chapter 11 rolling. But to say the strike is solely happening due to SK management going for a chapter 11 a bit naïve. It is part of the picture, but it is not the full picture.
SAS and MSA communications to the US last week — even before the weekend — say much about SAS management not having become suddenly impatient with the pilots during Sunday/Monday. This was on their time frame.
Last edited by GUWonder; Jul 9, 2022 at 12:02 am
Jul 9, 2022, 1:37 am
#320
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Tokyo
Programs: JAL Metal Card (OWE), SAS Eurobonus Gold (*G), Marriott Titanium (LTP), Tokyu Hotels Platinum
Posts: 21,178
Without having to search through all of the court filings, any particular communication you have in mind?
Jul 9, 2022, 1:48 am
#321
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Tokyo
Programs: JAL Metal Card (OWE), SAS Eurobonus Gold (*G), Marriott Titanium (LTP), Tokyu Hotels Platinum
Posts: 21,178
Interesting take on the situation from a competitor.
https://check-in.dk/ex-norwegian-for...il-omstilling/
https://check-in.dk/ex-norwegian-for...il-omstilling/
Jul 9, 2022, 2:51 am
#322
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,095
Interesting take on the situation from a competitor.
https://check-in.dk/ex-norwegian-for...il-omstilling/
https://check-in.dk/ex-norwegian-for...il-omstilling/
I am wondering if he’s wondering why he didn’t play the US jurisdiction, Chapter 11 bankruptcy shell game too.
About your earlier question, I’ll take a pass.
Jul 9, 2022, 4:02 am
#323
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: KSU (Kristiansund N, Norway)
Programs: SAS EBD/ *G
Posts: 2,163
Well, you could ask why they always need to have these negotiations in the vacation times. It is clear they want to cause as much pain as possible to the general public (while of course having the highest impact on company revenue). Which certainly doesn't help people sympathizing with them...
Now, if this just had been a Norwegian strike, it would probably have been stopped by the government already, as threatening vital national interests (as the flight mechanics strike was), by using the procedure known as tvungen lønnsnemnd (compulsory arbitration). As this is an international strike, that wouldn't solve the problem.
Jul 9, 2022, 6:21 am
#324
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Tokyo
Programs: JAL Metal Card (OWE), SAS Eurobonus Gold (*G), Marriott Titanium (LTP), Tokyu Hotels Platinum
Posts: 21,178
Sounds like he probably agrees with me that the state-backing of SAS has been and continues to be a driver of problems even with regard to the actions/posturing undertaken by SAS management and SAS employee unions.
I am wondering if he’s wondering why he didn’t play the US jurisdiction, Chapter 11 bankruptcy shell game too.
About your earlier question, I’ll take a pass.
I am wondering if he’s wondering why he didn’t play the US jurisdiction, Chapter 11 bankruptcy shell game too.
About your earlier question, I’ll take a pass.
Jul 9, 2022, 7:44 am
#326
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Tokyo
Programs: JAL Metal Card (OWE), SAS Eurobonus Gold (*G), Marriott Titanium (LTP), Tokyu Hotels Platinum
Posts: 21,178
Jul 9, 2022, 7:47 am
#327
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Denver, CO
Programs: UA Silver, Bonvoy Gold, Hyatt Discoverist
Posts: 21,554
I'm also guessing there are no talks this weekend? So I should be prepared to execute my backup plan to get me home by Monday evening. There is basically zero Y availability out of ARN for the next few days.
Oops, I didn't see the last few posts.
Oops, I didn't see the last few posts.
Jul 9, 2022, 11:46 am
#328
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,095
Who knows how the mechanics strike will interplay with the delivery on the one-off arrangement for those Apollo customers.
The chances of no strike related delays being in play tomorrow and into Monday? So low that I bailed on some TATL hops already and for the days ahead.
SAS already pushed the nuclear button as planned, so it’s sort of hard to accomplish much very quickly together when the nukes already launched. Capitulation under duress, or go down with the ship — aren’t those the pilots‘ options at the receiving end of the payload?
Last edited by GUWonder; Jul 9, 2022 at 12:00 pm
Jul 10, 2022, 12:26 am
#329
Join Date: Oct 2011
Programs: EuroBonus Diamond, Delta Skymiles 360, BAEC LTG, Hilton Diamond, Marriott Ambassador
Posts: 2,828
I didn’t say anything about pilots traveling away from home in the quoted post.
Pilots in Sweden seem to be less common owners of summer homes than Swedish electricians, carpenters and plumbers. And for pilots with summer homes, they more typically seem to be only around 3 hours or less away by road, if they have one.
Pilots in Sweden seem to be less common owners of summer homes than Swedish electricians, carpenters and plumbers. And for pilots with summer homes, they more typically seem to be only around 3 hours or less away by road, if they have one.
Jul 10, 2022, 7:30 am
#330
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: CPH
Programs: UAMP S, TK M&S E (*G), Marriott LTP, IHG P, SK EBG
Posts: 11,095
Not just Sweden. Denmark is the same. At least in Sweden there's Arn, in Denmark we have nothing and you need to pay to lodge a complaint.