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No more Al Mourjan access for upgrades with Qmiles/QCredits

No more Al Mourjan access for upgrades with Qmiles/QCredits

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Old Feb 15, 18, 9:48 pm
  #196  
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
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Originally Posted by Dr. HFH View Post
True, and maybe I'm just getting cynical as I get older, but any time that something is taken away, FTers complain. I think that we get a pretty good deal overall from QR. Quality premium cabin product, very decent pricing. Given the blockade action by the Gang of Five, something was bound to give eventually. We're already complaining about how crowded AM can get during peak flight banking hours. This is how management decided to try to control the crowd. It's a legitimate approach, and will lessen the crowds to some extent. I might have done it differently, but I'm not making the decision.
Dear Dr. HFH, I see your point but I have to disagree, because itīs more than legitime to complain when something is taken away, as it was promised at the time of entering the program. So in other words this is a contract between the FT and QRPC and this contract is changed significantly (in my opinion) to the disatvantage of one contract partner. This even could be evaluated as an "agreement contra bonos mores", you probably know this term. If I would act same as QR in the recent past, I would loose a lot of customers as my customers expecting a "non breach" of the contract.
I also doubt that this measure will have any significant affect on the "crowd" in AM or AS (if there is a crowd in AS somtimes at all) at peak flight hours, as the number of upgrades is handled very restrictive by QR anyhow.
But however, this is my personal opinion, but I hope that many of the FTs here will agree and complain to QR in the same way as I did.
As a result of this devaluation of QMiles and QCredits, I will change my booking behavior totally - from almost only QR booking, to "where ever the best price is available" (Emirates, Qatar, Oman they all have a good business class, at least on my preferred routes product, fortunately I fly mainly business). I know that QR hardly will recognize that, but maybe I will not be the only one.....
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Last edited by Traveller999; Feb 15, 18 at 10:38 pm
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Old Feb 16, 18, 1:29 am
  #197  
 
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Originally Posted by Traveller999 View Post
Dear Dr. HFH, I see your point but I have to disagree, because itīs more than legitime to complain when something is taken away, as it was promised at the time of entering the program. So in other words this is a contract between the FT and QRPC and this contract is changed significantly (in my opinion) to the disatvantage of one contract partner. This even could be evaluated as an "agreement contra bonos mores", you probably know this term. If I would act same as QR in the recent past, I would loose a lot of customers as my customers expecting a "non breach" of the contract.
I also doubt that this measure will have any significant affect on the "crowd" in AM or AS (if there is a crowd in AS somtimes at all) at peak flight hours, as the number of upgrades is handled very restrictive by QR anyhow.
But however, this is my personal opinion, but I hope that many of the FTs here will agree and complain to QR in the same way as I did.
As a result of this devaluation of QMiles and QCredits, I will change my booking behavior totally - from almost only QR booking, to "where ever the best price is available" (Emirates, Qatar, Oman they all have a good business class, at least on my preferred routes product, fortunately I fly mainly business). I know that QR hardly will recognize that, but maybe I will not be the only one.....
I totally agree with you, and I cannot condone a business that just change their terms over night. In a way I feel that I am being lied to, and whatever I was told in order to get my business turned out to be a completely different reality (redemptions at double the prices, inability to use Qcredits prior to day of travel, and lounge access). I travel probably less than most of you guys 4-5 long-haul trips a year but in C or F, the last two years they went all to QR, this year only 1 or 2 will go to them.

I booked my parents in QR C, (they normally travel in F), with the belief that I could use my miles or qcredits to upgrade them to F for one of their segment, heck even the day before travel F was at F-7 and I still could not upgrade them. Lets just say that was a mistake that will not happen again.
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Old Feb 16, 18, 1:51 am
  #198  
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To add to what synd just said, its also in the way Qatar has done it. All of the confusion and inconsistency, being turned away unceremoniously at the lounges that you always had access to without any warning, having to find out about the rule changes through forums such as this and still not being sure. Never having official word from the airline, even when you specifically ask. Wouldn't it make sense for Qatar to announce these rule changes via email to all of their customers? Had I known that this rule was going to be implemented in advance, I wouldn't subject myself to the undignified treatment at the lounge gates. It just leaves a bad taste in your mouth. Yes, the Qatar onboard product is great. But we do spend a great deal of time at the airports, at their lounges, in transit. I can't help but feel like a second class citizen on the airline of my choice, to which I have committed my loyalty, when I sometimes find that I have access to better and top tier lounges on other One World Partners as a OWE compared to on Qatar as a Platinum member. Just some thoughts that have been going through my head as I prepare for a long haul trip in Y.
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Old Feb 16, 18, 2:23 am
  #199  
 
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Originally Posted by ashbjr View Post
To add to what synd just said, its also in the way Qatar has done it. All of the confusion and inconsistency, being turned away unceremoniously at the lounges that you always had access to without any warning, having to find out about the rule changes through forums such as this and still not being sure. Never having official word from the airline, even when you specifically ask. Wouldn't it make sense for Qatar to announce these rule changes via email to all of their customers? Had I known that this rule was going to be implemented in advance, I wouldn't subject myself to the undignified treatment at the lounge gates. It just leaves a bad taste in your mouth. Yes, the Qatar onboard product is great. But we do spend a great deal of time at the airports, at their lounges, in transit. I can't help but feel like a second class citizen on the airline of my choice, to which I have committed my loyalty, when I sometimes find that I have access to better and top tier lounges on other One World Partners as a OWE compared to on Qatar as a Platinum member. Just some thoughts that have been going through my head as I prepare for a long haul trip in Y.
Now they are adding a hint to their email answers.....answers to my complaint.....
QUOTE
Important Information:
Effective 5th February 2018, for an award upgarde the Baggage allowance and Lounge access provided will be as per original ticketed cabin.
UNQUOTE
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Old Feb 16, 18, 3:13 am
  #200  
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Originally Posted by Traveller999 View Post
Dear Dr. HFH, I see your point but I have to disagree, because itīs more than legitime to complain when something is taken away, as it was promised at the time of entering the program. So in other words this is a contract between the FT and QRPC and this contract is changed significantly (in my opinion) to the disatvantage of one contract partner.
I understand, and agree partially. But when you joined QRPC, did the terms and conditions say that when you used points to upgrade you would be granted access to a QR lounge based on your upgraded status? I didn't read them when I joined, but don't the QRPC Ts & Cs say that they, and the services offered by QR, are subject to change without notice?


Originally Posted by synd View Post
I totally agree with you, and I cannot condone a business that just change their terms over night.
Really? I don't see any complaining when there are unannounced sales, such as the one last year that allowed us to do roundtrip MRs from SEAsia to the U.S. in J for under USD $700. Seems to me that people just don't like this particular change, not the fact that there are unannounced changes from time to time. Do you think that we'd see a lot of complaining if they started stocking Krug in Al Mourjan but didn't announce it?


Originally Posted by ashbjr View Post
To add to what synd just said, its also in the way Qatar has done it. All of the confusion and inconsistency, being turned away unceremoniously at the lounges that you always had access to without any warning, having to find out about the rule changes through forums such as this and still not being sure.
Unceremoniously? Were they rude to you, or were you politely denied admission? If they were rude, you absolutely have a legitimate complaint. If they were polite, but you just didn't like the message, well, ... that's a different story. "I'm sorry, sir/madam, but under our new policy, your lounge access is based on the original ticketed cabin" is very different from "Get the hell out."


Originally Posted by ashbjr View Post
Had I known that this rule was going to be implemented in advance, I wouldn't subject myself to the undignified treatment at the lounge gates.
What was the undignified treatment at the gates? I've never been treated in an undignified manner by anyone at QR, regardless of whether in Y, J or F.

Last edited by Dr. HFH; Feb 16, 18 at 3:20 am
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Old Feb 16, 18, 4:03 am
  #201  
 
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Originally Posted by Dr. HFH View Post
I understand, and agree partially. But when you joined QRPC, did the terms and conditions say that when you used points to upgrade you would be granted access to a QR lounge based on your upgraded status? I didn't read them when I joined, but don't the QRPC Ts & Cs say that they, and the services offered by QR, are subject to change without notice?
.
Dr. HFH - yes it was one of my decision makers to join QRPC, coming from StarAlliance Gold, that I can benefit of ALL in the upgraded class, with an upgraded ticket ...just simply as it is with Miles and More. But I have to admit, that I did not read all T&Cs - if it is written that they can change all when ever they want, then it is a very unfair approach, considering to "make" loyal customers....
However, I am ongoing the opinion that this is the wrong way to keep loyal customers and will act accordingly
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Old Feb 16, 18, 7:07 am
  #202  
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Originally Posted by Traveller999 View Post
But I have to admit, that I did not read all T&Cs - if it is written that they can change all when ever they want, then it is a very unfair approach, considering to "make" loyal customers....
I believe that most/all of the frequent flyer programs have language to that effect. I remember the discussions when US and AA merged, and people were wondering what would happen to AAdvantage lifetime status holders. The general feeling seemed to be that the merged company could eliminate lifetime status if it wanted to, but that it would be a bad decision.

Originally Posted by Traveller999 View Post
However, I am ongoing the opinion that this is the wrong way to keep loyal customers and will act accordingly
Exactly. That's what we as consumers do.
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Old Feb 16, 18, 7:28 am
  #203  
 
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Just last Sunday (Feb 11) my fellow with whom I flew together and who had upgraded to Business with QCredits was denied entry into the Al Mourjan Business Lounge. I have QR Platinum, he has QR Gold status. We both were not aware of the rule change (which already is questionable as we earned the miles under the old rules); consequently we could choose to either both leave or to be separated. I am now really p.... and will direct my business elsewhere, if even Platinum members cannot enter with a guest who is flying business (and paid for it with his miles) I am no longer interested. And btw I also did not consider the attitude of the Lounge personnel at the entrance professionell at all and felt humiliated- we also passed the scan at the escalator but then were called to the desk like we committed a crime and sneaked in. Bye bye Qatar Airways
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Old Feb 16, 18, 9:19 am
  #204  
 
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Originally Posted by magzan View Post
Just last Sunday (Feb 11) my fellow with whom I flew together and who had upgraded to Business with QCredits was denied entry into the Al Mourjan Business Lounge. I have QR Platinum, he has QR Gold status. We both were not aware of the rule change (which already is questionable as we earned the miles under the old rules); consequently we could choose to either both leave or to be separated. I am now really p.... and will direct my business elsewhere, if even Platinum members cannot enter with a guest who is flying business (and paid for it with his miles) I am no longer interested. And btw I also did not consider the attitude of the Lounge personnel at the entrance professionell at all and felt humiliated- we also passed the scan at the escalator but then were called to the desk like we committed a crime and sneaked in. Bye bye Qatar Airways
The rule change is very disappointing. However, as per the change in policy it doesn't matter when the miles were earned. If the upgrade with Qcredits & subsequent issue of the ticket happened before Feb 4th, only then is it eligible for entry to AM, otherwise not. Unfortunately Qatar Airways doesn't care too much about it's platinum or gold members. Only it's business/first class passengers.
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Old Feb 16, 18, 1:33 pm
  #205  
 
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Originally Posted by magzan View Post
Just last Sunday (Feb 11) my fellow with whom I flew together and who had upgraded to Business with QCredits was denied entry into the Al Mourjan Business Lounge. I have QR Platinum, he has QR Gold status. We both were not aware of the rule change (which already is questionable as we earned the miles under the old rules); consequently we could choose to either both leave or to be separated. I am now really p.... and will direct my business elsewhere, if even Platinum members cannot enter with a guest who is flying business (and paid for it with his miles) I am no longer interested. And btw I also did not consider the attitude of the Lounge personnel at the entrance professionell at all and felt humiliated- we also passed the scan at the escalator but then were called to the desk like we committed a crime and sneaked in. Bye bye Qatar Airways
Were you singled out once you were upstairs or is this second inspection now SOP? I never had to show my boarding pass at the desk so far.
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Old Feb 16, 18, 4:08 pm
  #206  
 
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Originally Posted by Dr. HFH View Post
Really? I don't see any complaining when there are unannounced sales, such as the one last year that allowed us to do roundtrip MRs from SEAsia to the U.S. in J for under USD $700. Seems to me that people just don't like this particular change, not the fact that there are unannounced changes from time to time. Do you think that we'd see a lot of complaining if they started stocking Krug in Al Mourjan but didn't announce it?
Of course I'll be more than happy when there is unannounced sale I can make use of. But I am not going to scream if there are none. I am not going to be happy of course if they dont do a sale like they used to, but its just part of business. That means they're selling their seats pretty well, good for them. On the other hand I consider upgrade using Qcredits / Qmiles, well anything except an op up, as having purchased in some way or other into the cabin, and as a result, I should be given all benefits given to the cabin. If we go down this road whats next? meals / drinks according to your cabin purchase? A business class lite, ie take the mini-cabin on the 777-200lr and give it to miles tickets / upgrades with coach service....
Furthermore Qmiles / Qcredits are a way to incentive customer to keep buying on Qatar instead of going to whomever has the right price. I also really have a problem understanding the logic behind restricting AM/AS access. If you take a Y flyer for example, if you give him a taste of your business class product, maybe he'll purchase it next time around, but you want to show him the entire product not parts of it. Heck EK gives their platinums First class lounge access no matter the cabin. Not many of you might remember, but back in the day SQ used to do that with their private room, restricting access to only paid F, no awards no upgrade, but then they stopped as they realized it hurt them to do so.
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Old Feb 16, 18, 4:12 pm
  #207  
 
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Dear Dr HFH, I flew exclusively EY for 5 years until I got stuck with a stupid rule re baggage weight with an upgrade, 1 segment with miles the other at the airport due to no availability when requesting online. The baggage rule by upgrading online was as upgraded, at the airport was as per original ticket and at check in i was 7 kg over and the bill was 300€. I told the station manager that if that fee would not be waived that would be my last EY flight, which it was....

So for 2015 I switched to QR, always flying J and experiencing upgrade unavailability when trying to upgrade with miles or Q Credits.
Plat in 2016, gold 2017, got an award J ticket and had above problems upgrading flights with miles, therefore downgraded to silver for 2018. Plan was to regain gold in 2018.
I bought my usual 2018 spring BKK-BRU J ticket, but because these QR upgrade problems and now AM lounge access denials for upgrades I bought my next J ticket with TK, best deal ever BKK-BRU.
Every year I visit friend in YUL and fly ex BRU, thus will fly *A to YUL in September. Not decided yet for direct with AC or indirect with TK.
Traveling BKK-BRU-YUL and back to BKK will get me silver and gold after a second trip with TK *A within first 12 months travel.
I still might consider QR if I find a good J deal but I doubt it.
That's how QR is loosing a J flyer after EY lost me for life.
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Last edited by tartempion; Feb 16, 18 at 4:18 pm
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Old Feb 16, 18, 6:54 pm
  #208  
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Originally Posted by synd View Post
I also really have a problem understanding the logic behind restricting AM/AS access.
Me, too. IMO there should be some way for QRPC elites flying in Y to access the QR lounges. Apparently AAB disagrees.


Originally Posted by tartempion View Post
That's how QR is loosing a J flyer after EY lost me for life.
That happens in any business, including mine. Customers come and go. The challenge, of course, is to have at least as many new ones coming in as current ones leaving.
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Old Feb 16, 18, 10:28 pm
  #209  
 
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Originally Posted by Dr. HFH View Post
Me, too. IMO there should be some way for QRPC elites flying in Y to access the QR lounges. Apparently AAB disagrees.


That happens in any business, including mine. Customers come and go. The challenge, of course, is to have at least as many new ones coming in as current ones leaving.
Dr. HFH, yes customers come and go - but the challenge is, not to get as many new ones as ones leaving, the challenge is to increase the number of frequent customers in addition to the new ones - at least if you have a loyality programm, as QRPC claims to be....
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Old Feb 17, 18, 5:15 pm
  #210  
 
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Came across this thread from the FT e-mail. What the heck is up with Qatar? The type of person who has enough Q Points to upgrade a fare isn’t the customer you want to alienate in favor of a potential bag fee. Are the lounges so overcrowded that they are taking away one of the major benefits to a J ticket?
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