massive QF FF programme changes
Mar 21, 2001, 6:35 am
#106
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NSW
Posts: 20
Koru Flyer,
The old domestic upgrades werent highly regarded by our members what with the conditions/non-transferability etc. In revamping this we will extend validity for the full 24 months.
Look forward to continuing the dialogue on how we compare. I probably wont be logging on to this site as regularly as you so feel free to email me with comments. Might even convert you over time.
Darren
The old domestic upgrades werent highly regarded by our members what with the conditions/non-transferability etc. In revamping this we will extend validity for the full 24 months.
Look forward to continuing the dialogue on how we compare. I probably wont be logging on to this site as regularly as you so feel free to email me with comments. Might even convert you over time.
Darren
Originally posted by Koru Flyer:
Darren,
Welcome to the baord, and thankyou for answering my query although, sad to know that my status will finally revert back to the bronze at the end of october
But given I have only flown 6 flights with QF in the last 2 or so years, I consider myself lucky to have survived this far! 
A question or two though. From my reading I have two silver domestic certs valid until Oct'01. On 15 September they will be converted (if unused) to two upgrade credits which I could then use for a trans-tasman one way intl upgrade? For me one of the biggest hassles of the QF programme was that I could only upgrade domestic Australia (and NZ but not worth it for 30 mins!) and as most of my flying is NZ to MEL/SYD/BNE or NZ to Asia/USA/europe I do not do much traveling in Australia domestically. Second question will they be valid for 24 months if converted with only 45 days left?
For me anyway, the status bonus for elites and lifetime credit tally is making me look very hard at shifting my 150,000km/year from NZ (which I lovely flying dearly) to QF.
Time will tell, and I suppose the comments of members here about the experiences of QF post 15/9 will be telling. Also will be very interesting to see what AN/NZ do as the ante has been raised.
Mark
Darren,
Welcome to the baord, and thankyou for answering my query although, sad to know that my status will finally revert back to the bronze at the end of october
But given I have only flown 6 flights with QF in the last 2 or so years, I consider myself lucky to have survived this far! A question or two though. From my reading I have two silver domestic certs valid until Oct'01. On 15 September they will be converted (if unused) to two upgrade credits which I could then use for a trans-tasman one way intl upgrade? For me one of the biggest hassles of the QF programme was that I could only upgrade domestic Australia (and NZ but not worth it for 30 mins!) and as most of my flying is NZ to MEL/SYD/BNE or NZ to Asia/USA/europe I do not do much traveling in Australia domestically. Second question will they be valid for 24 months if converted with only 45 days left?
For me anyway, the status bonus for elites and lifetime credit tally is making me look very hard at shifting my 150,000km/year from NZ (which I lovely flying dearly) to QF.
Time will tell, and I suppose the comments of members here about the experiences of QF post 15/9 will be telling. Also will be very interesting to see what AN/NZ do as the ante has been raised.
Mark
Mar 21, 2001, 6:46 am
#107
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NSW
Posts: 20
Adam,
I dont have my table with me; but let me set out how this works.
Calculate the mileage based on the actual routing, refer to the table and calculate the points required. Add 10000 points for the stopover. I think you will find the cost is 40,000 points. On circle journeys one free stopover is allowed. i.e. SYD/MEL/ADL/SYD allows one stopover in either MEL or ADL, an extra adds 10,000 points.
Darren
I dont have my table with me; but let me set out how this works.
Calculate the mileage based on the actual routing, refer to the table and calculate the points required. Add 10000 points for the stopover. I think you will find the cost is 40,000 points. On circle journeys one free stopover is allowed. i.e. SYD/MEL/ADL/SYD allows one stopover in either MEL or ADL, an extra adds 10,000 points.
Darren
Originally posted by adenda:
Darren, can you confirm ny calculations (and maybe comment)
I recently took an award flight SYD-MEL(stopover)-WLG-SYD for 30,000 points. My calculation under the new scheme for this itinerary is 70,000 points - a 133% increase!! Is this right? If so, then it's ridiculous. A straight SYD-WLG-SYD would still be 30,000 and a SYD-MEL-SYD would be 20,000 so 2 separate itineraries would 'save' 20,000 points (70,000 - 50,000) yet involve an extra flight segment. In other words the argument for charging 10,000 per stopover to free up seats seems a bit shallow when, in this case, it would be cheaper (in points) to take an extra unneccessary flight segment.
Value your input
Adam
Darren, can you confirm ny calculations (and maybe comment)
I recently took an award flight SYD-MEL(stopover)-WLG-SYD for 30,000 points. My calculation under the new scheme for this itinerary is 70,000 points - a 133% increase!! Is this right? If so, then it's ridiculous. A straight SYD-WLG-SYD would still be 30,000 and a SYD-MEL-SYD would be 20,000 so 2 separate itineraries would 'save' 20,000 points (70,000 - 50,000) yet involve an extra flight segment. In other words the argument for charging 10,000 per stopover to free up seats seems a bit shallow when, in this case, it would be cheaper (in points) to take an extra unneccessary flight segment.
Value your input
Adam
Mar 21, 2001, 7:14 am
#108
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NSW
Posts: 20
Kremmen,
Dont like to hear we are not meeting your expectations. I'll answer what I can at the moment but may have to come back to you on some specifics.See my comments below.
Open jaws will still be available in the new program
Cheers
Darren
Dont like to hear we are not meeting your expectations. I'll answer what I can at the moment but may have to come back to you on some specifics.See my comments below.
Originally posted by Kremmen:
Gee, I fly to Hobart (using 9,000 AN points) for a couple of days, and look at the size of this thread while I'm away. A few comments:
1) QF should look at its other problems first. If I ask someone a question via email, chances I will get an answer, often not a decent one, eventually. Get realistic. Answer your email promptly and efficiently, or don't have email at all. In particular, I booked a redemption flight online, then saw that an even better (for me) flight was available one day. I emailed QF and they didn't bother to reply for 6 days, by which time the seat wasn't available any more. It's utterly pathetic. Would a caller on the phone be put on hold for 6 days? If not, why can't email that requires 1 min of someone's time be answered promptly?
This is one I'll come back to you on. Can you advise me where you sent the email to? We do recognise sometimes emails get lost in the system and are currently working on a new system to manage emails across the organisation better.
2) I was QF Blue for 3 years. Out of my 3 free domestic upgrade certs, I managed to use just one. The upgrade certs are practically useless, can't be converted back to points, can't be converted to lounge passes, can't be converted to anything useful.
Totally agree the old domestic ones didnt work. This is why we have relaunched them, opened them up to International and allowed them to be transferable to partner
3) I gave up on QF after several years of elite status because of the introduction of the pathetic tier credits system. The new version is better, but still awful.
I went through 2 of my recent Star RTW trips and calculated the status credits I would have got on QF for same trip. Totals: 28785 miles and 28919 miles. With UA, that equals Star Silver + 15% of the way to Star Gold for each. With QF, my itineraries came to 240 credits in both cases. That's 69% of the way to OneWorld Ruby.
Cant check the calcs based on the data you have given me but 2 times 240 is
480 which is 80%/64% of the retain/attain level for oneworld sapphire. This doesnt seem to be too far off the UA figures?
Still a long way behind.
4) I don't really care how "points" are derived, but Australia has been metric for decades. Most people know the city-city distances in km, if they know them at all. Yes, I'm prepared to convert them to miles to work things out on a US airline, but I don't see why I should have to for Qantas. At the very least, QF should list all their distance tables in the correct units.
The new guide will have distances in miles as you suggest.
5) One question I haven't seen anyone ask: What about open-jaw redemptions? Ansett officially allows open-jaw redemptions. Some of the US airlines allow open-jaw redemptions. (eg. UA, even though I've never seen it in print anywhere.) If the new QF scheme not only (effectively) kills multiple-stop itineraries, but also has no option for open-jaws, this makes it quite inferior to other schemes.
Gee, I fly to Hobart (using 9,000 AN points) for a couple of days, and look at the size of this thread while I'm away. A few comments:
1) QF should look at its other problems first. If I ask someone a question via email, chances I will get an answer, often not a decent one, eventually. Get realistic. Answer your email promptly and efficiently, or don't have email at all. In particular, I booked a redemption flight online, then saw that an even better (for me) flight was available one day. I emailed QF and they didn't bother to reply for 6 days, by which time the seat wasn't available any more. It's utterly pathetic. Would a caller on the phone be put on hold for 6 days? If not, why can't email that requires 1 min of someone's time be answered promptly?
This is one I'll come back to you on. Can you advise me where you sent the email to? We do recognise sometimes emails get lost in the system and are currently working on a new system to manage emails across the organisation better.
2) I was QF Blue for 3 years. Out of my 3 free domestic upgrade certs, I managed to use just one. The upgrade certs are practically useless, can't be converted back to points, can't be converted to lounge passes, can't be converted to anything useful.
Totally agree the old domestic ones didnt work. This is why we have relaunched them, opened them up to International and allowed them to be transferable to partner
3) I gave up on QF after several years of elite status because of the introduction of the pathetic tier credits system. The new version is better, but still awful.
I went through 2 of my recent Star RTW trips and calculated the status credits I would have got on QF for same trip. Totals: 28785 miles and 28919 miles. With UA, that equals Star Silver + 15% of the way to Star Gold for each. With QF, my itineraries came to 240 credits in both cases. That's 69% of the way to OneWorld Ruby.
Cant check the calcs based on the data you have given me but 2 times 240 is
480 which is 80%/64% of the retain/attain level for oneworld sapphire. This doesnt seem to be too far off the UA figures?
Still a long way behind.
4) I don't really care how "points" are derived, but Australia has been metric for decades. Most people know the city-city distances in km, if they know them at all. Yes, I'm prepared to convert them to miles to work things out on a US airline, but I don't see why I should have to for Qantas. At the very least, QF should list all their distance tables in the correct units.
The new guide will have distances in miles as you suggest.
5) One question I haven't seen anyone ask: What about open-jaw redemptions? Ansett officially allows open-jaw redemptions. Some of the US airlines allow open-jaw redemptions. (eg. UA, even though I've never seen it in print anywhere.) If the new QF scheme not only (effectively) kills multiple-stop itineraries, but also has no option for open-jaws, this makes it quite inferior to other schemes.
Cheers
Darren
Mar 21, 2001, 7:49 am
#109
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Melbourne, Vic., Australia.
Programs: QF Platinum One (LTG), UA Plat IHG Plat
Posts: 5,836
To be somewhat fair to QF (now folks, you have to understand this is a big thing for me personally, noting my sig! 
).... Comparing the RTW's may be a little less helpful. While it is true that nominally a 29,000 mile Star RTW will, in theory, get you 29,000 status miles (plus bits here and there for min flight credits, and so on) let's not forget, that for UA members at least, and *definately* AN members, not all partners credit equally (eg: LH 50% credit on non trans-atlantic Y flying, AN 70% credit, AC domestic Canadian 50% credit, NH domestic credit restrictions on certain fares, etc). Now QF haven't released how this kind of thing looks under the new scheme with oneworld(tm) but excluding the _known_ AA/BA translatic issue (and noting Q class is not valid on AA transatlantic under the terms and conditions of the new QF system), it seems that 1 mile=1 mile. One question for Darren therefore is, will partners credit minimum mileage of 1000 points too, or would you be constrained by their systems (eg: 500 for AA)? And are the status credits equal across oneworld(tm) partners?
------------------
UA 1K MEL
A Star Alliance(tm) Member.
[This message has been edited by RichardMEL (edited 03-21-2001).]
).... Comparing the RTW's may be a little less helpful. While it is true that nominally a 29,000 mile Star RTW will, in theory, get you 29,000 status miles (plus bits here and there for min flight credits, and so on) let's not forget, that for UA members at least, and *definately* AN members, not all partners credit equally (eg: LH 50% credit on non trans-atlantic Y flying, AN 70% credit, AC domestic Canadian 50% credit, NH domestic credit restrictions on certain fares, etc). Now QF haven't released how this kind of thing looks under the new scheme with oneworld(tm) but excluding the _known_ AA/BA translatic issue (and noting Q class is not valid on AA transatlantic under the terms and conditions of the new QF system), it seems that 1 mile=1 mile. One question for Darren therefore is, will partners credit minimum mileage of 1000 points too, or would you be constrained by their systems (eg: 500 for AA)? And are the status credits equal across oneworld(tm) partners?------------------
UA 1K MEL
A Star Alliance(tm) Member.
[This message has been edited by RichardMEL (edited 03-21-2001).]
Mar 21, 2001, 1:58 pm
#110
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: SYD, GOT
Programs: BA GGL; SK EBG; QF LTG; Hilton Diamond, A-Club Platinum, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 2,727
Darren,
Thanks for your replies - although a bit hard to email you directly when no email address is supplied - although you are probably inundated expalining all these changes!
Mark
Thanks for your replies - although a bit hard to email you directly when no email address is supplied - although you are probably inundated expalining all these changes!
Mark
Mar 21, 2001, 9:47 pm
#111
Join Date: Feb 2001
Programs: IHG Diamond, HH Diamond, BW Diamond Select, Accor Silver, Marriott Gold
Posts: 4,228
Darren,
1) I sent the email to the standard address published on your web site, [email protected]
. Some days later, they passed it on to [email protected], whose response finally came 6 days after my original mail.
Some time later, I noticed that my itinerary was marked online as having a change. The web site said to phone or contact [email protected] about it. I emailed to ask them what had changed, and they replied that I needed to phone reservations. When I emailed them back to tell them that their own web site gave their email address, they told me to contact [email protected] instead and to expect delays. I emailed [email protected], and they never replied. However, they did reset the status on my reservation so that I could see what the change was. (It was just a 5-min arrival difference on one flight.)
2) How will the new upgrade certificates be any different? The problem is having certificates at all. We turn up at the flight, there's no space in business class, so we can't use them. It should be a matter of having points deducted at flight time, not paying points for something that may never be usable. Also, I have been denied upgrades and yet seen space in business on the flight.
3) Yes, 2 times 240 is 480, which is 64% of the attain level for OneWorld Sapphire. And my 28785 + 28919 = 57704 UA miles is 115% of the attain level of Star Gold.
64% is a long way below 115%.
4) I was suggesting that the new guide should continue to use km, since those are the proper units in this country. We are not the 51st state of the USA. More importantly, I know distances, such as MEL-SYD being 707km, off the top of my head. Having to convert all your new tables from miles into km is tedious. (You could always print both, but the km are more useful.)
5) Good to see open-jaws will still be available. They weren't mentioned anywhere that I've seen.
1) I sent the email to the standard address published on your web site, [email protected]
. Some days later, they passed it on to [email protected], whose response finally came 6 days after my original mail.
Some time later, I noticed that my itinerary was marked online as having a change. The web site said to phone or contact [email protected] about it. I emailed to ask them what had changed, and they replied that I needed to phone reservations. When I emailed them back to tell them that their own web site gave their email address, they told me to contact [email protected] instead and to expect delays. I emailed [email protected], and they never replied. However, they did reset the status on my reservation so that I could see what the change was. (It was just a 5-min arrival difference on one flight.)
2) How will the new upgrade certificates be any different? The problem is having certificates at all. We turn up at the flight, there's no space in business class, so we can't use them. It should be a matter of having points deducted at flight time, not paying points for something that may never be usable. Also, I have been denied upgrades and yet seen space in business on the flight.
3) Yes, 2 times 240 is 480, which is 64% of the attain level for OneWorld Sapphire. And my 28785 + 28919 = 57704 UA miles is 115% of the attain level of Star Gold.
64% is a long way below 115%.
4) I was suggesting that the new guide should continue to use km, since those are the proper units in this country. We are not the 51st state of the USA. More importantly, I know distances, such as MEL-SYD being 707km, off the top of my head. Having to convert all your new tables from miles into km is tedious. (You could always print both, but the km are more useful.)
5) Good to see open-jaws will still be available. They weren't mentioned anywhere that I've seen.
Mar 22, 2001, 7:44 am
#112
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Melbourne, Vic., Australia.
Programs: QF Platinum One (LTG), UA Plat IHG Plat
Posts: 5,836
Koru - Darren can be emailed at
[email protected]
as per his previous post in this thread
------------------
UA 1K MEL
A Star Alliance(tm) Member.
[email protected]
as per his previous post in this thread
------------------
UA 1K MEL
A Star Alliance(tm) Member.
Mar 22, 2001, 6:10 pm
#114
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Mordialloc, Vic, Australia
Posts: 230
I agree. This is not America, so we should use KMs.
I can not see the government and schools going *backwards* to teach children miles.
Qantas has taken a huge step backwards by moving to a unit of measurement that is out moded and out dated, and only used in old fashioned countries.
These countries need to move with the times.
Qantas should not move backwards to cater for those who can't be bothered to update themselves from the old Imperial system to the modern metric system.
DOWN WITH MILES! KMS ALL THE WAY!
This is Australia, not America!! NO MILES!
------------------
Kun-chan...
PS - Can you go and have a look at these URLs and tell me what you think at [email protected]?
http://www.thekeep.org/~kunoichi/kunoichi/ax_images/
http://milesbar.com/join.asp?id=MBG1198
http://www.emailcash.com.au/join.asp?refer=C60997
BTW - Can you also have a look at my latest articles at:
http://www.themestream.com/articles/237806.html
I can not see the government and schools going *backwards* to teach children miles.
Qantas has taken a huge step backwards by moving to a unit of measurement that is out moded and out dated, and only used in old fashioned countries.
These countries need to move with the times.
Qantas should not move backwards to cater for those who can't be bothered to update themselves from the old Imperial system to the modern metric system.
DOWN WITH MILES! KMS ALL THE WAY!
This is Australia, not America!! NO MILES!
------------------
Kun-chan...
PS - Can you go and have a look at these URLs and tell me what you think at [email protected]?
http://www.thekeep.org/~kunoichi/kunoichi/ax_images/
http://milesbar.com/join.asp?id=MBG1198
http://www.emailcash.com.au/join.asp?refer=C60997
BTW - Can you also have a look at my latest articles at:
http://www.themestream.com/articles/237806.html
Mar 23, 2001, 12:39 am
#115
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Melbourne, Vic., Australia.
Programs: QF Platinum One (LTG), UA Plat IHG Plat
Posts: 5,836
Kunoichi doesn't need to worry about miles or km's - she can grab platinum status with posts 
I think it's time for a post to the "technical problems" section at the weird behaviour of the this thread....
------------------
UA 1K MEL
A Star Alliance(tm) Member.
I think it's time for a post to the "technical problems" section at the weird behaviour of the this thread....
------------------
UA 1K MEL
A Star Alliance(tm) Member.
Mar 24, 2001, 2:36 am
#116
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 108
Hi Kunoichi,
Found an internet connection today
<<Qantas has taken a huge step backwards by moving to a unit of measurement that is out moded and out dated, and only used in old fashioned countries.>>
Why don't we list all backwards and old fashioned countries that use miles for FF programs:
1. USA
2. Canada
3. England
4. Germany
5. Hong Kong
6. Singapore
7. Japan
8. France
9. Italy
10. Spain
11. Switzerland
12. South Africa
13. Mexico
14. South Korea
15. Mainland China
16. Thailand
17+. etc etc etc etc
Did I leave out any other "backwards" countries? I think you will find it harder to list countries that operate FF programs in kms than vice versa. As you can see mileage for FF programs is not an American only thing. Also it is a bit hard for an International airline to shut out the rest of the world - "Pauline" style...
We could just stick our head in the sand and pretend the rest of the world will switch there FF programs to kms!
Cheers... Bruce
Found an internet connection today
<<Qantas has taken a huge step backwards by moving to a unit of measurement that is out moded and out dated, and only used in old fashioned countries.>>
Why don't we list all backwards and old fashioned countries that use miles for FF programs:
1. USA
2. Canada
3. England
4. Germany
5. Hong Kong
6. Singapore
7. Japan
8. France
9. Italy
10. Spain
11. Switzerland
12. South Africa
13. Mexico
14. South Korea
15. Mainland China
16. Thailand
17+. etc etc etc etc
Did I leave out any other "backwards" countries? I think you will find it harder to list countries that operate FF programs in kms than vice versa. As you can see mileage for FF programs is not an American only thing. Also it is a bit hard for an International airline to shut out the rest of the world - "Pauline" style...
We could just stick our head in the sand and pretend the rest of the world will switch there FF programs to kms!
Cheers... Bruce
Mar 24, 2001, 3:01 am
#117
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 108
Hi Kremmen,
<<I fly to Hobart (using 9,000 AN points)>>
Short-haul comparison done previously... number of return trips required to earn a free trip has dropped on MEL-HBA from 10.4 to 10.
<<I was QF Blue for 3 years. Out of my 3 free domestic upgrade certs, I managed to use just one. The upgrade certs are practically useless, can't be converted back to points, can't be converted to lounge passes, can't be converted to anything useful.>>
That is why they are now electronic, valid for 2 years, can be used on spouses and can be combined with upgrade certs for international upgrades - to make them more useable.
<<I went through 2 of my recent Star RTW trips and calculated the status credits I would have got on QF for same trip. Totals: 28785 miles and 28919 miles. With UA, that equals Star Silver + 15% of the way to Star Gold for each. With QF, my itineraries came to 240 credits in both cases. That's 69% of the way to OneWorld Ruby.>>
Now redo the calcs for a mixture of classes. Qantas is faster for short-haul (compare SYD-MEL trips versus LAX-SFO trips), premium classes and full economy - slightly slower for long-haul discount economy. BUT for a normal mixture of travel it should come out about even (some SYD-MELs, 1 * RTW, etc)
<<I'm prepared to convert them to miles to work things out on a US airline, but I don't see why I should have to for Qantas.>>
Not just US airlines - see above post. Just about all other international airlines operate in miles
<<At the very least, QF should list all their distance tables in the correct units.>>
I am sure they will.
The decision to list everything in miles was made to remove the confusion of having some stuff in miles and others in kms - thought it would be easier to evaluate and that members wouldn't think that by listing some stuff in kms and others in miles they were been ripped-off.
Cheers... Bruce
<<I fly to Hobart (using 9,000 AN points)>>
Short-haul comparison done previously... number of return trips required to earn a free trip has dropped on MEL-HBA from 10.4 to 10.
<<I was QF Blue for 3 years. Out of my 3 free domestic upgrade certs, I managed to use just one. The upgrade certs are practically useless, can't be converted back to points, can't be converted to lounge passes, can't be converted to anything useful.>>
That is why they are now electronic, valid for 2 years, can be used on spouses and can be combined with upgrade certs for international upgrades - to make them more useable.
<<I went through 2 of my recent Star RTW trips and calculated the status credits I would have got on QF for same trip. Totals: 28785 miles and 28919 miles. With UA, that equals Star Silver + 15% of the way to Star Gold for each. With QF, my itineraries came to 240 credits in both cases. That's 69% of the way to OneWorld Ruby.>>
Now redo the calcs for a mixture of classes. Qantas is faster for short-haul (compare SYD-MEL trips versus LAX-SFO trips), premium classes and full economy - slightly slower for long-haul discount economy. BUT for a normal mixture of travel it should come out about even (some SYD-MELs, 1 * RTW, etc)
<<I'm prepared to convert them to miles to work things out on a US airline, but I don't see why I should have to for Qantas.>>
Not just US airlines - see above post. Just about all other international airlines operate in miles
<<At the very least, QF should list all their distance tables in the correct units.>>
I am sure they will.
The decision to list everything in miles was made to remove the confusion of having some stuff in miles and others in kms - thought it would be easier to evaluate and that members wouldn't think that by listing some stuff in kms and others in miles they were been ripped-off.
Cheers... Bruce
Mar 24, 2001, 6:10 am
#118
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Melbourne, Vic., Australia.
Programs: QF Platinum One (LTG), UA Plat IHG Plat
Posts: 5,836
bruceb - Re: MEL-HBA - be careful with the wording. You say 10 trips, but you mean r/t trips (ie: 20 segments * 1000 min miles == 20,000 miles). Correct?
In the interests of equality though, I'll do the calculation for UA's program (we can say AN is 10.4 trips as their current program is identical to QF's previous...)
MEL-HBA = 384 miles
UA Credit = 268 miles * 70% for disc Y
This would require 19 trips to get the 10,000 miles needed for an award on this route.
QF wins
Even at full 100% Y credit, you would need 13 trips to get 10,000 miles for an award.
If a 500 mile minimum was given, it would be dead equal.
Having said that, it's not a very useful comparision - a UA mileage plus member is *not* going to spend their lives flying MEL-HBA on KD metal to earn their miles - they'll fly transpacs and others where getting 10,000 miles is a piece of cake, specially for elite members.
Personally I am not so sure that this is even a valid measure of how useful a program is. I mean, if I need to pay for 10 returns to get 1 free, it's likely I'd just pay for another - It would be an interesting exercise to see if FF members (this is a general comment, not aimed at QF btw) redeem awards that are *not* part of their regular travel patterns (classic example of the businessman who flies weekly MEL-SYD for work, and redeems to take himself and partner off to BKK for a holiday or something).
------------------
UA 1K MEL
A Star Alliance(tm) Member.
In the interests of equality though, I'll do the calculation for UA's program (we can say AN is 10.4 trips as their current program is identical to QF's previous...)
MEL-HBA = 384 miles
UA Credit = 268 miles * 70% for disc Y
This would require 19 trips to get the 10,000 miles needed for an award on this route.
QF wins
Even at full 100% Y credit, you would need 13 trips to get 10,000 miles for an award.
If a 500 mile minimum was given, it would be dead equal.
Having said that, it's not a very useful comparision - a UA mileage plus member is *not* going to spend their lives flying MEL-HBA on KD metal to earn their miles - they'll fly transpacs and others where getting 10,000 miles is a piece of cake, specially for elite members.
Personally I am not so sure that this is even a valid measure of how useful a program is. I mean, if I need to pay for 10 returns to get 1 free, it's likely I'd just pay for another - It would be an interesting exercise to see if FF members (this is a general comment, not aimed at QF btw) redeem awards that are *not* part of their regular travel patterns (classic example of the businessman who flies weekly MEL-SYD for work, and redeems to take himself and partner off to BKK for a holiday or something).
------------------
UA 1K MEL
A Star Alliance(tm) Member.
Mar 24, 2001, 7:42 am
#119
Join Date: Feb 2001
Programs: IHG Diamond, HH Diamond, BW Diamond Select, Accor Silver, Marriott Gold
Posts: 4,228
Originally posted by bruceb:
Short-haul comparison done previously... number of return trips required to earn a free trip has dropped on MEL-HBA from 10.4 to 10.
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Now redo the calcs for a mixture of classes. Qantas is faster for short-haul (compare SYD-MEL trips versus LAX-SFO trips), premium classes and full economy - slightly slower for long-haul discount economy. BUT for a normal mixture of travel it should come out about even (some SYD-MELs, 1 * RTW, etc)
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The decision to list everything in miles was made to remove the confusion of having some stuff in miles and others in kms - thought it would be easier to evaluate
Short-haul comparison done previously... number of return trips required to earn a free trip has dropped on MEL-HBA from 10.4 to 10.
[ ... ]
Now redo the calcs for a mixture of classes. Qantas is faster for short-haul (compare SYD-MEL trips versus LAX-SFO trips), premium classes and full economy - slightly slower for long-haul discount economy. BUT for a normal mixture of travel it should come out about even (some SYD-MELs, 1 * RTW, etc)
[ ... ]
The decision to list everything in miles was made to remove the confusion of having some stuff in miles and others in kms - thought it would be easier to evaluate
2) You're not being fair here. My RTW's are a mixture of long and short hauls. You're effectively saying that a "normal" mixture is some long hauls with some short hauls and a whole lot more short hauls thrown in too. I'm not sure it would even work then, since those short hauls are worth very few tier credits in discount economy.
3) Similar to point 1, people in this country have been measuring distances in km for, in some cases, all their lives. Putting distances in miles is a pain, since we already know them in km. Put a table saying zone 2 is 2001-5400 miles in front of Australians, and I suspect you will find they will generally have no idea what that means in practical terms. If the table said 3220-8690km, it would be much more useful.
Mar 24, 2001, 11:18 am
#120
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Melbourne, Vic., Australia.
Programs: QF Platinum One (LTG), UA Plat IHG Plat
Posts: 5,836
I suppose QF's view is that the clear majority of the people they are aiming the changes at are not people who fly around the world, but the MEL-SYD-BNE "road warriors" who fly a lot on business trips and the like. The benefits to them are twofold: business trips are likely booked in full Y (at least one previous employer I had booked _everything_ in full Y for business trips (or J for bigwigs) for the flexability of the fare) and thus the status credits pile up along with the mileage. Sure, you will have a bunch of longer haul pax doing runs to the US and europe, but I'd bet they would be in the majority of the 2 million+ QF FF members.
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UA 1K MEL
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