Koru Flyer

As of 15/9/2001 QF is unleashing a wide range of programme changes to their system.

See http://www.qantas.com.au/fflyer/dyn/.../programchange

Too many changes to detail in one email, but their system is now looking very north american and will be very interesting to see what AN does.

From a brief look, it appears to be quite positive but have not had time to digest and work out the implications for me.

Another nail in ANs coffin?

Mark

Gary

I will be quite interested to read about the changes in detail.

It's novel how QF now want to count frequent flyer miles rather than kilometres. A step backwards to revert to the North American idea of miles - I think!

The international upgrades using points sound good - will be interested to analyze number of points to upgrade from discounted economy tix Australia to US and Australia to UK/Europe.

1000 miles per segment is definately a plus - wonder if it will apply only to QF flights but also to OW partner flights (in particular AA)?

No expiry on points is also great - pity I redeemed 75,000 points last week that were due to expire 31/8. I could have saved them up for a better reward

Ansett has to drastically revamp their fledging Global Rewards programme.

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- Gary -

[This message has been edited by Gary (edited 03-14-2001).]

MukMuk

Miles!

whughes3

Yes, MILES???? What is this, the 21st century or the 18th? I hope this isn't just a sneaky way to reduce your points earned by a factor of 1.6.

whughes3

As a matter of interest, does anyone else have problems accessing the web pages with the details of the new scheme? I just get mostly blank pages displayed (using IE 5.0). I have to look at the HTML source to discern the contents..not very nice!

bers

I think they were having some problems - I was getting 500 Errors (internal server error) but things are back.

Even more positive is the complimentary Gold (current silver) card for a partner for 2100 credits (cheaper than BA!) and the 250 Credits = 1 Upgrade Credit idea. And the 7000/14000 lifetime statuses are just amazing. That means there are some very easy ways to get lifetime. That's only 233 trips in Business from SYD-MEL. Not much really.

The upgrades look pretty reasonable value and I love the status bonuses (25% extra for me!). The Bus to First upgrades are especially attractive.

No expiry is a sound marketing decision - doesn't cost them much I assume but removes a great barrier in perceptions. I know they got rid of the service fee now but what about joining fees?

Award levels will be signifcantly higher though. 40,000 New points for PER-MEL-PER Business class. I can get it for 37,500 old points today. Unfortunately domestic upgrades are now 1.6 times more expensive. It doesn't say anything about converting your 80,000 points to 50,000 after September, so maybe they are pricing awards high at this point as people will have lots of the "old" points to use up. I think maintaining it as a special balance and the old table (like AA did) would have been better.

However, gone is the days of getting "bonus" points in the States on a D Class RTW but flying in first as AA doesn't have Business Class. Under 2700 miles, Business and First earn the same.

But the miles thing has got me stumped. I just simply don't understand that bit. With kms used on UK roads soon (so I'm lead to believe), its inevitable that BA will change to Kms. Clearly, they've done a lot of matching to US programs. Maybe even too much!

I am genuinely considering my decision to have AA as my top choice program. At this stage in my life, QF will be my main airline that I fly on and these changes take out most of the problems that caused me to give the check in lady the shock of her life last month when I asked to have my QF number removed to put an AA number in instead. She'd never done it before!

Good series of changes and I suspect market forces will make them drop some of the levels of award bookings. For me, awards are not my priority - upgrades and status are. This is therefore great for me!

Just my first thoughts.

bers

Two huge changes I missed!

Discount Economy earns 100% (not 70%)!

But for business class flyers, you no longer get 4 times the credits of discount flyers. Only 3 times. That would be why the Platinum ("old" Gold) has fallen to 1400 Credits. This will lessen the effect of any possible dilution brought by the drop from 1700->1400.

These things clearly show that QF has realised I am no less loyal to QF than my Dad is. I just don't get to fly business class like he does.

RichardMEL

I would say that the move to Miles by QF is to bring them in-line with oneworld(tm) partners. The 1000 mile minimum is definately novel, and amazing for flights like MEL-SYD (439 actual miles according to UA). Imagine how much you could rack up on all those funky regional flights or even CBR-SYD shuttles?

I wonder if QF would comp me gold or plat level if I show them my UA 1K card and statement.

This certainly makes QF a viable and attractive option and Ansett has a large stake in it's coffin if it does not match/revamp GR which now seems even more sad and tired than before.

Also of note 7500 credits for lifetime. If you need 1400 in a year to make plat, and given you make 10 minimum you could make lifetime gold in around 6 years of heavy flying or 750 short haul flights. If we assume 1000 miles/flight, that's 750,000 miles. That's *cheap* compared to AA/UA's million miler lifetime status!

I wonder if these changes will impact the US programs in any way?

------------------
UA 1K MEL
A Star Alliance(tm) Member.

Kremmen

It's interesting. They've made short hops more valuable, with the 1000 point minimum, while making short hops cost much more to redeem points on. A few other things to note:

One-way rewards are gone.

Stopovers on award flights will cost 10000 points each!! That's almost as bad as Ansett's changes, but the main thing is that Qantas had the guts to tell us 6 months in advance of bringing the changes in, while Ansett did it without telling anyone at all.

Tier credits still suck horribly for anyone who ever flies discount economy.

Also, note the 20% bonus for the next few months for putting points across to them from credit cards.

Kunoichi

Wow, I'll be Bronze! Something more than 'Non-tier' because I only fly once a year and then Qantas wipes the tier points away! Bronze. Wow! ^_~

I do like "No Account Service Fee"... very good...

"Introducing international upgrades" ... great! I'm a less frequent traveller, but if points never expire, I'll be able to fly business, one day!! "Frequent Flyer points will not expire"! ^_^

"Discount Economy travellers will earn the same as Full Economy" NIIIIIIIIIIIIIICE!! ^_^

"A minimum 1,000 points per flight - guaranteed" Sounds good...

"Qantas Frequent Flyer points earned per mile, not kilometre" - dumb, dumb, dumb. Does this mean that kids will have to be taught miles in school? I wasn't, so I've got no idea what a mile really is.

"Lifetime recognition available" is great for those who make it!

"Guaranteed Economy Class seat available for purchase by Platinum members" ... umm... so if you say 'I want an aisle seat at the back', you'll get it if you're Platinum, guaranteed... and for everyone else it's luck?

From 15 September 2001 ... hrm, too bad I'm flying in June/July, otherwise I'd get Full Economy points for my el-cheapo (but expensive compared to the specials!!) tickets...

Heh... "Privileges You Can Look Forward To When Flying Qantas" ... Bronze gets ... NOTHING! *rolls her eyes* May as well not be no-tier...

Well ... at least it's now more fair for the plebs like me, who can't afford to fly all the time, or who doesn't get to go on business trips anywhere!

------------------
Kun-chan...

PS - Can you go and have a look at these URLs and tell me what you think at [email protected]?

http://www.thekeep.org/~kunoichi/kunoichi/ax_images/
http://milesbar.com/join.asp?id=MBG1198
http://www.emailcash.com.au/join.asp?refer=C60997

BTW - Can you also have a look at my latest articles at:
http://www.themestream.com/articles/237806.html

ozstamps

This email below has a few extra litle points. (What is the 1000 extra for 5000 transfer referring to .. my QF visa???) When I had dinner with Randy Petersen he'd been down here talking to QF FF brass about their program. He indicated they consulted him to pick his brains about things that they might look at and improve, such as It'l upgrades etc. Whether this is a direct result of Randy's advice, who knows, but interesting.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

On 15 September 2001, we will introduce a range of program changes and new benefits to the Qantas Frequent Flyer program. Members who have advised a valid mailing address will soon receive an information pack. This information, plus Questions and Answers, is also available on-line.

Visit http://qantasfrequentflyer.com.au to find out more about these and other exciting highlights:

- No expiry* on points for active members (effective 15 March 2001)
- No Account Service Fee (effective 15 March 2001)
- New international upgrades as well as domestic using Frequent Flyer points
- Points earned on miles, not kilometres
- Minimum 1,000 Points Guarantee per flight

To celebrate 'no expiry on points'* we're giving away 1,000 bonus Qantas Frequent Flyer points every time you convert the equivalent of 5,000 Qantas Frequent Flyer points from your Australian or New Zealand credit card Reward Program**. Plus, you could WIN a fabulous New York trip for you and three friends! Call your credit card service centre to convert today! Visit http://qantasfrequentflyer.com.au for full details and Terms and Conditions.

We'll contact you again before September. In the meantime, we will continue to reward you as usual.

Best regards,

G. Mark Emerson
General Manager Relationship Marketing

* Provided you earn or redeem points from your account at least once every three years.

** This offer ends 30 June 2001.

P.S. If you know of other Qantas Frequent Flyers who would like to see this e-mail, please feel free to forward it to them.




[This message has been edited by ozstamps (edited 03-14-2001).]

Guava

I also got the e-mail today from Qantas. Being one of the few non-Aussie or Kiwi member of Qantas residing in North-America, I guess my opinion about the changes to Qantas FF program is quite different to most people.

Before I go into details, my feelings can be summarized in two words: "Horrible and Deplorable!" Here is why:

POSITIVE CHANGES

No expiry date for points
Excellent change for most members except those who are used to spend their points within the 5 year period. Overall, not that big deal.

No account service fees
Well, for Aussies and Kiwis this is a good change, but for certain other people (for instance me), I am indifferent b/c I don't pay such fees anyway by residing outside of Australia or New Zealand.

Status bonuses
A good change in appearance, but this is merely matching what other major FF programs are doing. This would be excellent if the redemption level is the same as before. But a quick look at the new award levels clearly suggest that the redemption levels for awards have gone up too.

Lifetime recognition

Well, if you keep flying every year, this means nothing to you. But this may be good when you retires. A friendly gesture from Qantas in my opinion.

Minimum 1,000 miles per flight

Sounds good, but everything is relative. What happened to the redemption level (see negative changes further down)!?

Status Credits

This is not something that I paid close attention to in the past b/c I collect Qanatas points but was careless about the status. So, I have no idea whether it has become better or worse. Nontheless, I roughly recall that I found Qantas Status Credits used to be so restricted to Qantas flights that people live outside of Australia or New Zealand doesn't have much chance of being high in status. Nonetheless, as part of my natural instinct when studying new things, I immediately notice a potential loophole and fast-track for North-Americans to gain Qantas status based on the new format. I would like to draw your attention to First Class 2,701~5,000 miles for 150 Status credits one way. Obviously, Qantas think that a First Class above 2,701 miles have to go beyond Australia. But, this can be easily by-passed by American Airlines' Chicago (ORD) to Honolulu (HNL) non-stop service at a distance of about 4,500 miles one-way. Since the booking class is F or A in First class. This domestic U.S. flight, quite cheap, especially if you buy the lowest non-refundable economy fare and then upgrade eletronically or using points will book you in A Class (First, earning First Class bonus). A round-trip is enough for 300 Status credits, enough to retain Silver status. On top of that, this also earns you one upgrade credit useable for upgrade on Qantas. And the cheapest ticket between ORD and HNL is about $400 USD. What a good deal if one is interested in getting Qantas status. Of course, there is the 4 Qantas segments rule but this is easy with one trip down under.

Now...

NEGATIVE CHANGES

A less complicated system!? I rather it stays complicate than being torn apart so badly.

Award flights redemption level

No!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I suppose because I am not an Aussie that I am really having trouble with the fact that I can no longer do the round-Australia trip for 37,500KM points. This allows me up to 11,000 KM within Australia for 5 stopovers. Now, look at this in case you haven't realized it yet: 11,000KM = 6,875 miles, which is in the same zone as 5,401~10,000 miles. For business class, I NEED 100,000 MILES!!!!! Is Qantas kidding or something!? Wake up, this is not 100,000KM, but 100,000 Miles or 160,000KM! So, instead of paying 37,500 KM for an itineary that I could fly, say: SYD-CNS-DRW-ADL-MEL-SYD, I have to pay 160,000 KM (100,000 Miles) + 50,000 miles for 5 stopovers (NO FREE STOPOVERS ANYMORE) for a GRAND TOTAL of 150,000 miles or 240,000KM. A jump of 640% in cost for a frequent flyer paying with points! So...if you guys think I am over reacting, just shoot me but this is unbeliveable. How can they do that? Do they think FF can't think and calculate? For Int'l travel, it is also very bad. I'll give you an example. A typical itineary for Aussies: SYD-LAX-SYD. Business Class for this would be Zone 4 for 160,000 Miles. Hello!? even BA is offering this on Qantas metal for 95,000 miles with the new BA Executive Club North-America. Yes, I said Qantas operated flights, for the exact same route. Oh, by the way, BA doesn't measure distance like Qantas do. Under the new BA system, the 95,000 miles is also good enough to fly New York - Sydney or anywhere in Australia, New Zealand or New Caledonia in Business Class + one free stopover, whereas flying out of JFK would need 220,000 miles in Business Class based on the new Qantas rules! That's more than double compared to BA for a Qantas operated flight! I can understand you guys are probably not used to think in terms of miles yet, since those new redemption levels are clearly based on miles not KM as stipulated very clearly in the new rules. But once you realize it, it's horrible and deplorable.

It's very good that some changes are added to make the life easier for most Qantas members residing in Australia such as no service fee. Furthermore, earning points easier seems good in appearance. But, with the redemption level literaly jump up by up to 640%, it's unforgiveable. "The inflation clearly outpaces the increase in salary here!"

It's quite late here. Please feel free to comment. Maybe I am overreacting or overly sensitive to points and miles but it is the only reason why I am Qantas FF member.

[This message has been edited by Guava (edited 03-15-2001).]

ozstamps

Just phoned ANZ Bank to get my QF points balance in there. There are about 200,000. Asked ANZ guy what the deal was. He said: "you'll get 40,000 bonus points if you move them across". I said: "why are they doing that" he says: "I have no idea Sir".

I have about a million Amex MR points as I use the card a great deal for business purchases. Reading ABOVE, the same 1 for 5 deal appears to apply? It says Australia or New Zealand card reward programs, NOT Ausralian and New Zealand (ie ANZ Bank) programs or maybe it was just a typo error? Does anyone know for sure if Amex MR points can be done as well in this deal?? Getting 200,000 + 40,000 bonus QF points makes me suspicious. Where is the catch?

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~ Glen ~

Wannabe Flyer

The 1000 per 5000 bonus points aside, do you think it will be better to transfer Visa and other reward points before or after the change?
I would have thought before, since 1 point in the old system becomes 1 point in the new system so you are effectively getting a mile for a km. (And although miles will be harder to earn, award levels will be lower in miles than they were in km.)
However one of my colleagues is convinced it will be better to wait because 1 mile is worth 1.6km. Have any mathematical types thought this out yet?

Also, if that 1000 mile minimum thing applies to segments, there are going to be quite a few popular trips of less than 2000 miles which earn 4000 points (eg from Sydney to many Queensland locations which must be accessed via Brisbane). Can this be right?

bruceb

Hi All,

Some answers to your questions.

Why Km to miles?

1 km = 0.62 miles
1 mile = 1.61 kms
All Qantas’ major partners distribute points based on miles (Cathay, BA, AA, etc), in fact all major carriers Europe, Asia and North America use miles for measuring points for flying. The change means closer alignment to partner programs –earning and redeeming can be more closely aligned across partner programs.

How many points do I earn?

Although points for flying are now distributed based on miles – the total number of points issued will be higher due to the following changes:
1. Minimum earn of 1000 points (1250 for business/first)
2. Full earn on discount economy (used to be 70%)
3. Tier bonuses
Also all tiers will earn more points on average – that is Bronze’s are not losing out to Platinum’s – this is because full earn impacts mostly non-tiers while tier bonuses have the greatest impact on Platinum’s. So forgetting about how points are measured you will on average receive more under the new system.

What about existing points?

No change. A point is a point is a point – the same in the new and old system. That is credit cards still transfer on a one to one basis and you earn the same number of points for hotels, rental car hire, etc. The only difference is that the number of points earned for flying will be calculated based on miles rather than kms + the above changes to earning points for flying (together these will mean more points on average for flying).

Tier credits?

Unfortunately because of Qantas’ network (lots of very short and lots of very long routes) they need to maintain a system that rewards both short and long haul travel on an equitable basis. If it was based on distance travelled you would have to do 25 trips SYD-MEL to get the same recognition as 1 SYD-LHR – under the tier credit system the ratio 6:1.
The tier credits issued for most flights has increased (especially short and medium haul flights – like SYD-PER) and the introduction of lower retain and a lower attain level for Platinum make achieving recognition levels easier.

Value of short versus long?

I like to think of value as number of trips required to earn a free one. The changes are designed to even out the structure/number of trips across the network. For example:
· It used to take most members 27 SYD-CBR economy trips to earn 1 free redemption on the same route; it now takes only 10 trips.
· It used to take most members 17 SYD-MEL economy trips to earn 1 free redemption on the same route; it now takes only 10 trips.
· It used to take most members 6 SYD-LHR economy trips to earn 1 free redemption on the same route; it now takes only 5 trips.

Stopovers?

Most programs only have rewards point-to-point – some are even zonal and you have to put to rewards together to get to your destination – if you want to go to two destinations too bad or get two redemptions. Qantas wanted to make a fairer system that maintains flexibility for holidays while also giving everyone a fair go at redemption seats. In the past some members were taking up to 40 flights on one redemption, which makes it harder for other members else to get their redemption. The 10,000 point fee for additional destinations gives members flexibility and provides fairer basis for access to seats – a fairer balance between no stopovers (most programs) and QF’s old system.

Happy to answer any other questions – please post them below.

Cheers… Bruce