thadocta

And still no update on the QF website.

Sure, the decision was handed down at 0208 this morning, but given that thousands of people around the world are hanging on the result, which is easily obtainable trrough various news sites, you'd think they'd have someone ready to update the website as soon as the decision was known (maybe a bit later, once they worked out when they could start flying again), so that people could know when flights are planned to resume. (Even if CASA has to sign off on it, they could at least given an indication)

7.00am Monday, last update was 5.15pm Sunday.

The FWA hearing went from 1400 until 0208 (so a tad over 12 hours, including deliberation time). Ample time for QF to have someone ready for a relatively simple website update.

So much for the mantra "Keep watching Qantas.com for the latest information"

Dave

moa999

Was stated last night that airline had to go back to casa this morning for approval to restart.
would therefore expect a 9am announcement that they will start flying mid afternoon or early evening...

wait and see

ButFli

If we want to get technical, Fair Work Australia is a tribunal and not a court. Its members (not judges or justices) exercise an administrative power and are part of the executive branch of Government.

drsmithy

No, that's not true at all. At the very least, he could have announced a grounding with severals days warning (as Unions have to do with strikes), allowing those affected the opportunity to change their plans (and, say, not dropping them into cities about to suffer widespread flooding).

Lonely Flyer

"A tribunal in the general sense is any person or institution with the authority to judge, adjudicate on, or determine claims or disputes—whether or not it is called a tribunal in its title.[1] For example, an advocate appearing before a Court on which a single Judge was sitting could describe that judge as 'their tribunal'. Many governmental bodies that are titled 'tribunals' are so described to emphasize the fact that they are not courts of normal jurisdiction. For example the International Criminal Tribunal for Rwanda is a body specially constituted under international law; in Great Britain, Employment Tribunals are bodies set up to hear specific employment disputes. Private judicial bodies are also often styled 'tribunals'. The word 'tribunal' is not conclusive of a body's function. For example, in Great Britain, the Employment Appeal Tribunal is a superior court of record."

thadocta

Only in some rather quaint countries, but not in Australia. In Australia, the judiciary is independent of the the government.

The government, in Australia, is formed by the party which holds the confidence of the House of Representatives.

The rather quaint notion that there are three arms of "government" - Executive, Legislative and Judicial - is peculiar to only a few countries.

Dave

sguy

This isn't really true, unless you consider Australia, Britain etc to be those 'quaint countries'.

The British judiciary for example calls themselves a branch of government and so does the Australian high court. They are still of course independent from the executive/legislature...

GrantSpatchcock

This would be the same Bill Shorten who claimed that Qantas had given them no notice, only for us to find out this morning that Joyce rang Gillard three hours before the grounding? And the same Shorten who said that Gillard was frustrated at the lack of opportunity to do something, only for us to find out this morning that she hasn't even returned that phone call?

I'm not a Liberal voter (just to declare my allegiances) but that's pathetic by Gillard and dishonest by Shorten.

flyermatthew

It looks like QF did finally get their act together, though not in time for me. I was booked on QF 11 (14:00 departure SYD-LAX), and I showed up at the airport at 10:30 after getting off a flight from the Gold Coast. I tried calling, but of course the contact centre did not have adequate staff. QF staff said that I could buy a ticket at my expense and QF would reimburse, or I could arrange my own hotel. There was no support for finding a hotel room above the Sydney airport's hotel desk, such as QF room blocks or QF-negotiated rates.

QF staff walked me over to the UA counter and told me to buy a ticket because I'd get home.

Regardless of whether I'd agree more with the union or with management, QF is not looking good. Given that management grounded the airline, I would have hoped they would have had something more in place than "go pay those people some money to get home."

I never thought I'd look at domestic USA disruptions and say that there is a way to handle disruptions worse, but I guess I can now.

travelislife

This has been so badly reported that people don't understand the grounding. The lockout wasn't scheduled to begin until Monday night so with the decision that has been made no worker has missed out a cent of pay. The reasons the planes were grounded immediately was a risk assessment was completed and it was found that for safety reasons it was deemed the best course of action. Yes annoying for travellers but in terms of IR the appropriate warning was given.

drsmithy

Wow.

6-12 months this has been going on, but apparently it all ends up hinging on a three hour window while the PM is busy at CHOGM, and therefore it's somehow her fault ?

I question the assumption that the PM even has the power to resolve this in such a short timeframe and, if she does, that she should.

thewinchester

A judicious use of smilies with that post may have been appropriate - because if I didn't take that post in the good nature intended I might have told you to take a long walk off a short pier

I've been updating threads with the latest factual information across three forums, and going hell for leather updating a boatload of friends on social networks inc. some pretty lively debate.

It was even at the stage where a few KVS windows were running, sourcing information on flight availability for friends in Australia and across the globe. This helped with a great story in Tasmania involving 11 Japanese tourists lost in a mall, which someone will be writing up in the fullness of time.

Frankly after all of this - I'm shattered.

Fair cop thadocta, not everything is as easy as them clicking their fingers to make it happen - as nice as that would be.

As a former corporate webmaster, I know the level of rigorous control needed before something is published to a public site. This includes relevant sign-off and approval, preparation and quality control, and finally deployment to the public site. And this also depends on whom is authorised to edit these pages, and if any of those parties are available or on-site to do so (workflow control).

Depending on the nature and complexity of the website IT architecture and corporate policy environ, this could take anywhere from a few minutes to a few hours.

I note that the site was updated at 0810hrs AEDST advising that they are flying from midday.

Further, this information was being published via the airlines social media channels as early as 4am this morning (first tweet from @QantasMedia, shortly thereafter by @QantasAirways), and I dare say was published to Facebook around the same time.

Mercifully, social media channels are less controlled - and as long as the authorisation to publish exists, the right person can get a message out on these in seconds, not minutes or hours.

I also note that their social media channels are prominently displayed on the page you refer to, and they specifically state they will have all breaking news and information.

You also have to consider the workload the guys in their Media and Communications team are under. I just happen to have an idea of this as a member of this area is a acquaintance of mine. A good portion of my day yesterday was dedicated to providing that individual emotional support, and even extra reassurance that from the public perspective their work is valued and meaningful. This person worked so hard at doing their role they went home when they finally able, feeling mentally and physically exhausted.

So fair cop - it's one thing to complain that people aren't doing their jobs. However, how about tempering that with a little bit of respect for the people who are on the other side of the screen working their arse off to bring customers the right information, accurately, as fast as possible. Not everyone and everything in this day is a machine that does someone's bidding - it still takes humans, and a lot of them to do a proper job.

drsmithy

I have to wonder how this "risk assessment" concluded traveller safety was somehow going to be compromised.

I'm not talking about it from an IR perspective, I'm talking about it from a customer's perspective.

Tens of thousands of people have been impacted. Travel was stopped mid-journey, in some cases ending in cities in danger of major natural disasters. Many travellers would not have had the financial resources, or experience, to deal with the disruption, and would likely have had all sorts of other incidental costs other than just hotels or alternative flights.

All because, effectively, Alan Joyce had a dummy-spit.

Given the demonstrable contempt QANTAS upper management has for its customers, why would anyone go near them again ?

Lonely Flyer

This should have been a top priority for her and not to respond is her failure.

I bet if her decorator for the lodge called she would have taken the call.

thewinchester

For those interested in the ruling published by the FWA Justices, these were made available on the FWA website within the last couple of hours:

Full bench decision: http://www.fwa.gov.au/decisionssigne...1fwafb7444.htm
Orders: http://www.fwa.gov.au/awardsandorders/html/pr516214.htm