VH-RMD

'phone call from QFF, thanking me for my comments and to assure me they would be passed 'higher up'...

AnonymousCoward

Hi,

I know this will be unpopular, but I have no problem with QF removing "any-time" access. Allowing arrivals access is a nice gesture, and frankly I don't see why they should need to allow any more than that.

Running an airline is a pretty cut-throat business. Constant calls for more and more amenities for fliers who are generally out to make the most our of the system are, self-defeating, in my humble opinion.

The [hypothetical] flyer who makes Plat on 1200 SCs worth of YUPs is not the type of flyer that QF wants to be giving out extra lounge visits to. It's the type of flyer that every other QF passenger is subsidising. And when the competition *isn't* having to provide that type of subsidy, something has to give.

[As an aside, the calls for "business class" competition from DJ are also amusing. Do you think that's really going to lead to some amazing leap in service? or is it just going to lead to lower fares and cuts to service?]

In any case, QF are sending out new cards and free luggage tokens, so at least you're getting something you don't need to pay for.

Leumas

In an overall context, I don't disagree with you... However, aren't you making the assumption that without people that try to maximise their benefits (but still within the stated T&Cs that the airline designed, not the customers), the airlines will retain their services?

Unfortunately, there're also other [real] fliers that make Plat and fly pretty much exclusively with QFs. I'd also venture a guess that of the entire QFF WP population, the proportion that gain this status through YUPs fare is tiny. When compared to the entire QFF client base, this proportion is even smaller.

Of the current qualifying period, I've only taken 4 flights that are not on QF metal. Even then, they're on QF number and on an airline that is part owned by QF. I've to make a lot of noise (and almost manipulate the system) for work to book me on QF. I'd argue I've gone above and beyond to being loyal.

You're suggesting that the majority of customers are being punished by your group of [hypothetical] fliers. Sounds fair?

Time will tell on this one. However, DJ have publicly stated they're after business customers. OTOH, I've also said DJ is now run by an ex-QFer, so he knows how the game is played.

Whoopie...!

I'm sure that if QF can think of a way where a card or luggage tags aren't needed, they'll go down that path too!

AnonymousCoward

It's not about "fairness". It's about being profitable.

Personally I think QF should look at the 'loopholes' (I used quotes because they aren't really loopholes) that allow some customers to attain status at a rate that doesn't really accord with what a business would normally expect in terms of revenue/profit.

Enforcing the minimum 4 QF segments was a step in that direction.

However, QF is a business in a pretty tough market, and I understand that costs will go up, and revenue is always under pressure.


Personally I'm more than happy to accept things that make getting through the airport quicker. If you'd prefer to go back to the days when we always had to queue up, then you're perfectly entitled to that.

However I do see that seating requests have become a lot more transparent for QF Plats in the past couple of months. We are almost always gauranteed seats at the front of the plane (both domestic and international, regardless of Y/Y+/J - F I'm not too worried where I sit). Apparently there is now a priority line through security for some airports, and we are getting cards/tags that make checkin quicker. I can't complain too much about that.

Cedar Jet

QF already charges a healthy premium for its fares compared to its competitors for primarily no real difference in hard or soft product.

If they can't afford to run the airline on an effective business model perhaps they shouldnt be in business. I have no problem paying a slight premium because its an Aussie entity, employing Aussies, the money stays here on the most part and I'm quite proud of the Kangaroo on the tail.

When QF starts to take away benefits they need to understand how this affects its premium pax/flyers. I too do what I can to stick with QF but everyone has a threshold of what they will tollerate and perceive to be of value when flying.

Some of us may walk away from QF unwillingly/sadly as there may come a point when QF are just not worth it anymore. eg. I can book a RTN to LHR with CX for 3K less than QF in J-what's QF tangibily doing/offering to keep me on their metal at a fare of 3k more? - That's what I try add up each time I fly QF and it's quickly dimminishing.

My 2 cents
CJ

lokijuh

Yes but where does it stop? One could catalog the lost benefits over the last 7 or 8 years, and anytime is not the only one. Even this latest round of changes two of the other things that grate on me are ability to only check 2 bags (last 4 trips to SIN I have checked three), and change fees, not so long ago a redemption booking could be changed for free, after these changes fully come into effect some redemptions will require ~11,000 pts to change (eg CX bookings) MEAN. (add to that the loss of free allocation of exit rows not too long back, I'm sure there are more).

One argument I realise is that anytime was a benefit that few used, but I'm sure one could argue the same about the MEL/SYD F lounges. I bet the average PER based WP (unless travelling to the US) has little benefit from these, so let's get rid of them as well, and only allow WP's to access them whilst travelling in J. Also the 100% bonus must be a drain lets reduce PS to 10%, SG to 25% and WP to 50%. Oh, and abolish the loyalty bonus whilst we're at it.

But in return, we'll get brand new Marc Newson designed ear plugs when travelling long haul in Y.

It's not anytime, its the catalog of lost benefits that really greats on me. In return we get a nice three course meal if we happen to flying international out of SYD or MEL.

m0hamed

So then, shall we mobilise, create a letter that we can customise and send via the website to make our voices heard?

sho

I have to say I am extremely disappointed in this development. Anytime QC access is one of those little things, not often used, but when you need it is a real lifesaver. It's just one of those things you could do for your family or friends, now and again. I can't imagine it costs much. Personally it was one of the things I aspired to most about Platinum status.

And now it's going, is it? What a fine idea - find out who the airlines's most loyal and valuable customers are, and then screw them over. Make them feel like the annoying little cost centres they undoubtedly are. I mean they probably got that Platinum status in a cereal box or something, right? Get out of our lounges, you deadbeats!

And no priority checkin for QC members? Well of course not! Those losers were probably just using Qantas priority check-in to catch other airlines' flights. Who do they think they are? Valued customers or something?

Qantas, here's some unsolicited advice:

- you should be making your product better, not worse
- your should be making your customers happy, not sad
- if your beancounters suggest cutting costs by nickel and diming your loyalest customers, make sure they include an estimate for lost goodwill, and conduct some sort of survey amongst actual members - because I don't know a single person who isn't very unhappy with these changes. For me it reduces the value of Platinum by maybe 50%.
- next time you have some news for your customers, how about trying to make it *good* news?

danger

Some excellent points, lokijuh (particularly the Marc Newson earplugs that are surely just around the corner!). I think one of the positives of anytime access was it's availability to all Platinums, unlike the benefit of the FLounges that are available in the major cities.

m0hamed, I did pen a draft email (I think I posted it above) but there was a good suggestion that personal emails or letters are probably better received. I sent my letter to Simon Hickey, CEO of QFF, GPO Box 4347, Melbourne 3001. Someone on AFF sent an email to [email protected] and then there's the generic [email protected]. Incidentally, the generic address I used on Friday resulted in a call from the QFF service centre today thanking me for commenting and noting they'd receive a lot of correspondence and it was being passed up to management. So, get writing/emailing!

justin_krusty

I also ask this question. Given that domestically QF does not scan BPs or cards to allow entrance into the lounges, how can they know how many members are actually using anytime access? How can they even have accurate stats on lounge attendance or overcrowding?

I know for a fact that some people exploit this hole to gain access by dodgying up bogus BPs, which is possibly more of an overcrowding problem. Enforcing proper entrance checks would be a far better fix.

d00t

Spoke to a special someone at QFF today who said the changes were more aimed at stopping people using the lounges if they are flying say Emirates or Air NZ. Even though the logic behind this is super-flawed and almost baseless, there was a blanket approach to this by restricting all lounges even when the problem was only international lounges.

There is just soo many issues with taking away anytime access....

- Little to no difference between Gold and Plat (domestically).
- Large portion of Plats have nothing to gain after retaining WP/PG.
- Nothing to gain once attaining lifetime Gold.
- Does not install confidence in those who may one day be Platinum (why should they bother aiming for plat?)
- Negative PR (PR reaching other airline top-teir pax who might be thinking about spending more with QF)
- Pissing off existing members who specifically flew more segments to get over the WP line.
- Reduced value of Platinum
- Long term negative affects on leisure travellers retaining status and reducing spend with QF overseas.

Positives with no long term negatives are...... ?.......... ?...

At the end of the da, if you're Platinum, you are making Qantas more revenue than any other status teir passenger. Even if you are flying another airline, the loyalty remains with QF to retain status.... so that you can continue using the lounges anytime.

To stop members doing business with your competitors; the simple answer is to have a far superior product. Iron fist tactics in commercial enterprise always fails...

Leumas

While I'm not as big a spender as some other WP's, as I said, the vast majority of my spend goes to QF. In the past year, all my flights created income for QF. If QF don't think my level of spending is enough, then we'll have to part ways. One would think after the GFC, QF would continue to encourage growth in the top segment rather than to take part in the race to the bottom.

I agree that if they want to focus on people attaining status too 'cheaply', look at that, not make up some excuse about lounge overcrowding. QF obviously would rather see non-WP's in the lounge where they can get quick revenue from fees, rather than WP's who actually pay airfares to QF...!

You're missing the point. As you said, it's about profitability, on the other side is cost. Obviously, having queues and check-in staff cost more than customers check themselves in and put their own bags on the belts. I'm saying if there's a way where if QF can find a way to do that without issuing cards or tags at their costs, QF will jump on that straight away.

I've checked 1 bag (out of dozens of sectors) in the past year or so, which ironically, QF managed to lose. I can argue this NGCI is next to useless for me too.

Ultimately, everyone's requirements are different. While QF can't please everyone, I find it difficult to believe a company is willing to annoy some of their bigger spending customers to solve some problems which may or may not exist. If there's a problem, let's solve the cause, not the symptoms.

Leumas

I agree with mostly what you said. However, with the above points, there must be an end point. Let's say they introduce another level above WP/PG or LTP, the same points can be raised. Just replace 'WP/PG' with this new level and LTG with LTP.

The other option is to introduce some super-duper feature that we'll go ga-ga over (since they've reduced the gap between SG and WP), time will tell on that one.

adl73x

The QP members providing quick revenue from fees won't be crowding the lounge, they'll still be waiting to check in.

turtlemichael

Good point justin_krusty, which I had overlooked. I often just show my card at the lounge door, rather than the bp, even when I have a bp. I have never been asked for a bp after showing my card. Therefore, if this is consistently true for others, QF would have no idea how many people are actually getting the free kick and therefore what it costs. I am even less impressed if they manage their business on such hunches. It sounds more and more like weak management without weighing up the consequences or even knowing the facts.