Louie_LI

Not everyone flying in the US is a US citizen or resident. What if someone doesn't have these data points to provide?

studentff

And that is a key problem with these sorts of dragnets. People can accidentally transpose their DOB or get a digit wrong, and end up in a heap of trouble. And for those with common names, it's not all that unlikely that you share both the name and the DOB with someone else. That problem is aggravated when blacklist databases go fishing for "near matches" on DOB.

When the only people who get blacklist/warrant checks are those that LEOs have probable cause to believe have committed a crime (even if just speeding), the absolute number of false positives is limited by the relatively small number of stops and checks, and each false positive can be handled with individual attention.

But when you set up a dragnet, such as at an airport checkpoint, and force millions of non-suspects through it, even a very low false-positive rate is going to lead to tens of thousands or even hundreds of thousands of false positives. There's no way to individually handle all of those cases, and you end up with a completely unfair system with no due process and no effective means of redress, just like what TSA has created and is trying to extend.

The founding fathers knew this. The courts knew this up until the last quarter century or so. But somehow in the whipped-up paranoia over terrorists, child molesters, and deadbeat dads, none of which are new concepts, our society is losing that wisdom.

studentff

From what I've read, the system has (currently) optional fields for a "redress number" and a "known traveler number." If you've previously been harassed by the blacklist, the redress number is supposed to provide clearance. The known-traveler number seems to be a placeholder for a future registered traveler system. To avoid having problems, foreign nationals will probably be forced to apply for these numbers.

As the blacklist becomes larger and less specific for maximum "effectiveness"--e.g., John Smith born 1/1/1970 is a bad guy, but just to be safe, we'll investigate anyone named J Smith born in 1970, and anyone named J Smith born on 1/1, etc.--more and more people will be forced to apply for "redress" or "known traveler" numbers. These numbers essentially will constitute the individual's "permission" from the government to travel. In other words, the combination of your name, DOB, Real ID, and Redress (or known traveler) number will be your "travel papers" (like in East Germany) which can be revoked by the government at any time. If all of this happens, I wouldn't be surprised at all to see the "redress numbers" and/or "known traveler numbers" printed on RealID cards.

whirledtraveler

Aren't there some people who have no recorded date of birth?

bocastephen

I'm going to find out further details on this, but in a nutshell, if you can't be 'cleared' by the database search, then you will go on the selectee list.

For the same reason that all tickets issued (or reroutes) within 48hrs of departure will result in an automatic selectee status, because they 'dont have time' to run you through the system.

mikeef

"I'm sorry, I can only give you my DOB in Base Eight. But don't worry, that's just like Base Ten, if you're missing two fingers." (and you get a cookie if you can identify that second sentence).

Mike

studentff

As much as I despise this proposed system, I'm not convinced either of these assertions are true. If they are true, they will make excellent ammunition against this system. If they are not, claiming that they are may hurt our collective case against it.

My (limited) reading of the material that came out yesterday implies that the airlines will have some sort of instant-clear mechanism for last-minute purchases and reroutes. That instant-clear mechanism may or may not go through their normal reservation systems (i.e., it might be a website), but it is supposed to exist. (see pages 73-76 of the final rule) Otherwise the number of SSSS's would go through the roof, and I think TSA knows they can't get away with that as they showed when they magically waived at the last minute the SSSS for non-RealID holders this May.

What I do find odd is that the airline has to transmit flight itinerary and number information to TSA, since that has nothing to do with the supposed purpose of matching names and DOBs to the watchlist. If a pax was cleared for UA105, why do they need to be re-submitted and re-cleared when they re-route to UA107? This inconsistency is probably worth investigating. If TSA were truly just matching names/DOB to the watchlist and not creating travel dossiers or inferring acquaintances from flight information, they wouldn't need the flight information. Either they're idiots (possible) or they're hiding something (possible).

As for the database, I still think it is a "default-cleared" system where a non-match won't result in an SSSS or denied travel. Unless TSA is totally mis-portraying this system (which could be the case), TSA is not yet maintaining a universal database of valid names and DOBs (which would have to be based on birth certificates and CBP entry logs just to cover USA-originating flights). Your average traveler will miss in the database; the only "hits" will be no-flys, selectees, and false-positives. Otherwise, in the absence of a universal database I don't think TSA has, every new child, new arrival, or first-time traveler would be SSSS. My guess is that if you have a good fake RealID that says you are Joe Schmo born 1/1/1970, that you will be cleared as long as that name is not a watchlist match, even if no such person exists.

bocastephen

I'm only reporting what I've been told from the inside - I have no reason to believe I've been given inaccurate information. Much of these assertions will come out through a press release and possibly testimony, so there will be documentation to back it up before it goes out with the TSAS name.

GUWonder

To help the fishing expedition team know to recast the net and -- after subsequent arrest -- the TSA apologists will wave the flag of "look what kind of bad guy we caught" even when the person is not a terrorist. Perhaps they will make this a way to collect on outstanding parking tickets too.

The other part of it is for the government to always try to know who may be "associated" with whom, even if not announcing it to the government. It took 24 years to get here, but George Orwell's 1984 is an agenda in progress.

Global_Hi_Flyer

And just think how easy (and instantaneous) retaliation becomes: let's say the Maryland state police decide you deserve to be watched because you protest some political policy (it's happened) or you're a reporter that writes something that a political boss deems derogatory. Bingo: you're on the list (it's happened).

Or (even worse) your name gets on a list... and the government agencies flag your name to be tracked everywhere. So your name goes to the agency that wants you tracked (doesn't happen now because the airlines do the checking so the government doesn't really know who's flying), and THEY maintain the data... much longer than the 7 days that TSA says it will be kept.

Just think how Joe McCarthy or Michele Bachmann would be salivating at the idea that Americans can be tracked and restricted so simply.

Citabria

Notwithstanding my disgust at this proposal, I at least found one part of it might lead to a bit of humor and fun:

From the TSA link above:
"Airlines will be required under Secure Flight to collect a passenger's full name, date of birth, and gender when making an airline reservation."

So, um, what happens if I'm a little un-sure of my, uh, gender orientation, when making a reservation? Or traveling?

TSA: "It says here Mr. <me> you're female"
Me (dressed and acting as a man): "I am"

what would THAT lead to? (Note: I am actually a male).

Conversely, What would happen if I took up a hobby of airport cross-dressing just to mess with them?

bocastephen

Unless there is a mechanism to verify this information, you could choose a random gender and DOB for every reservation you make. This will populate the database with garbage, especially if no other consistent information like a FFN or phone is used for all the reservations.

They *could* tie each record together by searching against the FFN or contact phone fields, but you still would have left a trail of trash in their database.

copwriter

I believe that is one of the notions behind the embedded RFID chips. Even if you did transpose a number in your DOB, the chip would have the correct one. One is a check against the other.

Yes, but even those people pick a date they use as their date of birth. For instance, many native Vietnamese use January 1 of the year they were born as their DOB, as their DOBs are not otherwise recorded.

Tom Lehrer, "New Math."

ralfp

Interesting.

Oh no! MADD would go berserk if they knew about this, the possibility of someone drinking at age 20.

WIRunner

soooo...
Who here has no middle name? Or multiple? Or a single letter.
I could care less about my birthday, and month, birth year i keep to myself. My middle name consists of a mere letter. So when I book a flight as John Q Public. will it kick it out? Will CO be nice enough to realise that they don't even have my full first name on record. My driver's licence omits my middle "name" completely. Next year is going to suck.