New TSA requirements for address and DOB

Old Oct 24, 08, 2:58 pm
  #61  
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This issue isn't going away, much to the chagrin of all of us. I wish I thought that there was a way out of it, but many Americans are drinking the kool aid on the security issue and just go along. I don't see much chance of change in the right direction when the vast majority of people don't know, understand or care.

It affects frequent travelers in a way that "ordinary" people don't fully appreciate. They're not interested in civil liberties, they just want to get to grandma's as cheaply and quickly as possible. Don't get me wrong, I want to get there fast and cheap too, but there has to be a place where we draw the line.

OT now... Mikeef -

Is it too late for the cookie?

"You can't take three from two, two is less than three so you look to the two in the tens place. Now that's really four tens so you make it three tens, regroup and you change the ten to ten ones...

Only a child can do it "

I can do that whole albumm 30 years later. Hysterical - but I'm dating myself. Actually my parents listed to it in the 70s over and over again. Funny how I can remember all the words to those songs but can't remember where I put my glasses...
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Old Oct 25, 08, 1:41 am
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Originally Posted by mikeef View Post
I have no problem with this approach. In fact, I have a better idea. In order to fly, you need your doctor to insert a small microchip in your arm, similar to the chip they put in pets so you can find them if they get lost. The chip will include all of your personal information and can be scanned at the WTMD, thus eliminating the ID checks and saving time.
Originally Posted by Global_Hi_Flyer View Post
The goal is to create a "registered citizen" program. Won't be long before governments REQUIRE ID for every transaction, cash or credit.
Sounds like a Gattaca world with the "Valids" and "In-valids". Just skip the subdermal implanted chips (VeriChip) and go with fingertip prickers for DNA scanning of the blood drops. Of course the chips would be more useful if they had RFID capability. Why bother with just chipping the passport/ID when you can also chip the person? Now THAT would be useful...RFID chip in Taylor Smith is always present with the RFID DL in the name of Tyler Smith...well *obviously* something fishy there!


Originally Posted by WIRunner View Post
soooo...
Who here has no middle name? Or multiple? Or a single letter.
I could care less about my birthday, and month, birth year i keep to myself. My middle name consists of a mere letter. So when I book a flight as John Q Public. will it kick it out? Will CO be nice enough to realise that they don't even have my full first name on record. My driver's licence omits my middle "name" completely. Next year is going to suck.
Yeah, what about folks like Capt. B. J. Hunnicutt from M*A*S*H? Actually, his name is B J not B. J. since the "." implies an initial that stands for a "longer" name. He (and folks like him) could have tix in the name B J, BJ, B.J., B. J. or even just B which is the style that all my air tix are booked. Both my kids have two middle names, the only agency thus far able to accomodate the names is State Dept (passports).

So am I to understand the address requirement has been dropped? Because that could open a whole new can of worms...which address? My house? (not listed on any records except the utilities that serve the house) My personal PO box? Spouse's business PO box? HQ (main facility or any one of 15 PO boxes)? I think our internal travel system uses one of the HQ PO boxes as a default address for everyone. That could be interesting if questioned about why the address on my PNR in no way relates to my DL address. But then the passport card has no address so I guess it wouldn't matter anyway.
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Old Oct 25, 08, 3:44 am
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A slightly different twist on this, with a few questions:

A) What do you think the average Joe's reaction will be when they see they need to enter their DOB and gender on the reservation page?

B) How would group reservations work out? wouldn't it be a PITA to enter the gender/DOB for each group? Such as a group of students? (Think 8th graders visiting DC)

C) How would this affect gate passes?

Last edited by MrAndy1369; Oct 25, 08 at 3:49 am
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Old Oct 25, 08, 6:36 am
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Originally Posted by Andy1369 View Post
A slightly different twist on this, with a few questions:

A) What do you think the average Joe's reaction will be when they see they need to enter their DOB and gender on the reservation page?

B) How would group reservations work out? wouldn't it be a PITA to enter the gender/DOB for each group? Such as a group of students? (Think 8th graders visiting DC)

C) How would this affect gate passes?
As to A above, the average Joe has, most unfortunately, bought into the "anything for security" crap and won't even question it.

As to B above, tour groups will follow along willingly for fear that if they don't they will be harassed by the government; school groups will also follow along willingly.

If I were the parent of a young child today, I personally would not be happy with DHS having this knowledge about my child; however, I imagine I'd be told that my kid could not go on the trip if I objected to handing this info over to the government.
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Old Oct 25, 08, 6:40 am
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Originally Posted by goalie View Post
Originally Posted by GUWonder View Post
The current clowns are in a rush to get in place as much as they can in order to tie down the next Administration with this current Administration's garbage policies in a whole variety of areas -- this is just another area.

The Department of Justice is also in overdrive to do this kind of garbage. Between the Department of Justice and the Department of Homeland Security and the White House -- and that's just on the end that directly relates to travel -- this stuff is being done now to make sure it is done at all and without being watered down.
emphasis mine: and because of just that, they will screw the pooch on this as they have on many other "innovations"
I started saying this same thing a year ago: get as many onerous procedures in as possible during the current administration as the next one may not see things our way.
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Old Oct 27, 08, 11:36 am
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Originally Posted by doober View Post
I started saying this same thing a year ago: get as many onerous procedures in as possible during the current administration as the next one may not see things our way.
Just remember that many Dems supported the TSA, too.

Here's a more scary thought: the TSA was created to "restore faith" in our transportation and security system. That's the same logic being used in the financial bailout......
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Old Oct 27, 08, 3:25 pm
  #67  
 
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I have no problem with this approach. In fact, I have a better idea. In order to fly, you need your doctor to insert a small microchip in your arm, similar to the chip they put in pets so you can find them if they get lost. The chip will include all of your personal information and can be scanned at the WTMD, thus eliminating the ID checks and saving time.
But, it's the Mark of the BEEST!

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Old Oct 27, 08, 5:39 pm
  #68  
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Originally Posted by oneofthosepeopleyouloveto hate View Post
But, it's the Mark of the BEEST!

Maybe not the implanted chip, but I'm sure you could find a religious person to argue that RealID is such a "mark." Comrade Chertoff can't seem to resist the urge to tie every aspect of our life to it.

I'm not saying it is, but it's a passing thought that ran thru my mind.
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Old Dec 21, 08, 12:45 am
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Update: SecureFlight has been finalized and will begin implementation in the next 30 days.

http://www.tsa.gov/assets/pdf/secure...final_rule.pdf

Some especially alarming points:
  • Full name (including middle name if shown on ID) required
  • DHS/TSA decides whether your BP prints. Not the people you give your money to.
  • If your flight is considered a "risk" or a "target", the DHS may run your information through any LEO databases they desire.

Another outrageous intrusion.

Even better, phase 2 of this program will apply to flights merely overflying continental US airspace. So for you YYZ-EZE flyers (etc), hope you don't mind, but you'll be in Kip's little database too.
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Old Dec 21, 08, 1:02 am
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Originally Posted by Axey View Post
Update: SecureFlight has been finalized and will begin implementation in the next 30 days.

http://www.tsa.gov/assets/pdf/secure...final_rule.pdf

Some especially alarming points:
  • Full name (including middle name if shown on ID) required
  • DHS/TSA decides whether your BP prints. Not the people you give your money to.
  • If your flight is considered a "risk" or a "target", the DHS may run your information through any LEO databases they desire.

Another outrageous intrusion.

Even better, phase 2 of this program will apply to flights merely overflying continental US airspace. So for you YYZ-EZE flyers (etc), hope you don't mind, but you'll be in Kip's little database too.
A big to this. .

Sad thing is, a lot of sheeple will think this a good thing that should happen in a free land like the US. They'll fail to see that it's just a smoke screen for asking the government for permission to travel just like in totalitarian states ... the same places they despise.

Super
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Old Dec 21, 08, 1:44 am
  #71  
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Originally Posted by Axey View Post
Update: SecureFlight has been finalized and will begin implementation in the next 30 days.

http://www.tsa.gov/assets/pdf/secure...final_rule.pdf

Some especially alarming points:
  • Full name (including middle name if shown on ID) required
  • DHS/TSA decides whether your BP prints. Not the people you give your money to.
  • If your flight is considered a "risk" or a "target", the DHS may run your information through any LEO databases they desire.

Another outrageous intrusion.

Even better, phase 2 of this program will apply to flights merely overflying continental US airspace. So for you YYZ-EZE flyers (etc), hope you don't mind, but you'll be in Kip's little database too.
There is more freedom to travel in former Taliban country than there is in the US.

.... so we export freedom and democracy so much that we have more and more trouble finding it at home.
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Old Dec 21, 08, 9:36 am
  #72  
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This was most certainly rammed through by the current administration, without Congressional oversight of the details, and timed to prevent the new Congress from squashing it.

In the near year, the group I'm trying to put together will be synced with some other anti-secureflight organizations out there to try and appeal to Congress to take action when the new session convenes. There are many Congressional reps who are definitely anti-SF, but I'm not sure what they can do at this point, given the blank check Congress inexplicably wrote for the TSA.

My understanding is the data you provide will be run against a list, not necessarily built into a database for retention and analysis, but I could be wrong. The additional datapoints are to permit more granular comparisons against the watch list, but as we know, the watch list doesn't include the names of terrorists, so go figure.

You can experiment when reserving online by altering certain aspects of your persona, such as birth year, date, or day, or even gender. We can compile our own FT database reported right here to determine under what circumstances someone loses online check-in, or gets a secondary, or is hassled when they show their 'VID' after providing false data to the airline.

Please pay close attention to the 72hr rule - this will impact everyone here. If you make a reservation within 72hrs, or are transferred to another airline inside 72hrs of departure (think irregular ops rebooking), expect a very strong likelihood (like 99%), you will not be able to check-in online, and you WILL receive a secondary screening at the airport. Given the sheer number of last minute business bookings, expect to see many of your full fare brethren doing the 'arms out' at the airport checkpoint. It is the impact on business travel which we will try and tap into as well, as the various traveler organizations are going to be up in arms once they release the impact of this rule.
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Old Dec 21, 08, 10:26 am
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For passengers on covered flights, TSA requires covered aircraft operators to request a passenger’s full name, gender, date of birth, and Redress Number 7 (if available) or Known Traveler Number 8 (if available once the known traveler program is implemented). Even though covered aircraft operators are required to request all of the above data elements from passengers, passengers are only required to provide their full name, date of birth, and gender to allow TSA to perform watch list matching. TSA is not requiring individuals to provide the other data elements to aircraft operators. Covered aircraft operators must transmit to TSA the information provided by the passenger in response to the request described above.
Also

Covered aircraft operators also must transmit to TSA passport information, if available. Although TSA is not requiring covered aircraft operators to request passport information under this final rule, passengers may provide passport information pursuant to other travel requirements such as CBP APIS if a passenger is traveling abroad as part of the same reservation/itinerary. When passengers provide passport information to covered aircraft operators, the operators must transmit the passport information to a single DHS portal from which the appropriate information will be sent to TSA and CBP.
I also see for Full name, DOB, and Gender: "Passengers and certain non-travelers must provide at time of reservation"

The document goes on and on. Lots of comments expressing concern about things, which the TSA responds with a non-response or a "that doesn't apply to us" response (such as for privacy and data-retention issues)

Finally: Effective December 29, 2008.
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Old Dec 21, 08, 10:30 am
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Hopefully, this 72 hour rule will affect the Congress Critters and Senators when travel on commercial airlines, as I would imagine that quite often they book reservations in less than 72 hours. If they get hassled enough by these rules then maybe they will do something about them.

I guess these new rules are the parting gift to us all from Comrade Chertoff and Kippie. May they suffer them as well when they become normal citizens again after January 20, 2009.
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Old Dec 21, 08, 10:34 am
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Originally Posted by OrlandoFlyer View Post

I guess these new rules are the parting gift to us all from Comrade Chertoff and Kippie. May they suffer them as well when they become normal citizens again after January 20, 2009.
May those scumbags suffer much worse fates than just that.
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