New TSA requirements for address and DOB

Old Dec 24, 08, 4:11 pm
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Originally Posted by Andy1369 View Post
And, just to play devil's adovocate, but don't we already technically get government permission to travel? Because of the NFL, and because the airlines are doing the checking for us, running our names through a government database, so therefore aren't we already sort of getting permission to travel? I hope that makes sense.
No. The airlines are not allowed to board anyone on the NFL, but there is no government involvement if you're not on the list.

Under this proposal every passenger must be checked by a government agency and the airlines are prohibited from giving out boarding passes unless they grant permission for the airlines to issue.

Huge difference between a "block list" that's referenced by the commercial operator, and a permission system whereby everyone is blocked unless the government gives it's OK.
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Old Dec 24, 08, 7:28 pm
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I guess you do have a point, but I've always considered the NFL to be a form of government permission that was checked by the airlines.

Why do you think the airlines is allowing SF to happen if the problems outlined a few posts ago (no way to rebook during IRROPS, seat changes, etc)? You would think in this weak economy, airlines wouldn't want to diminish important functions and therefore lose business- especially during IRROPS? Would TSA have any consideration during IRROPS or the ability to transfer permissions from your original boarding pass to the new one that the airline prints? It just doesn't make sense why TSA would set it up this way?

Originally Posted by Global_Hi_Flyer View Post
No. The airlines are not allowed to board anyone on the NFL, but there is no government involvement if you're not on the list.

Under this proposal every passenger must be checked by a government agency and the airlines are prohibited from giving out boarding passes unless they grant permission for the airlines to issue.

Huge difference between a "block list" that's referenced by the commercial operator, and a permission system whereby everyone is blocked unless the government gives it's OK.
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Old Dec 24, 08, 7:54 pm
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Originally Posted by bocastephen View Post
I will be posting more about this soon - TSA/DHS has decided to take advantage of their lack of Congressional oversight, and ram through most of the key components of SecureFlight, and there is nothing anyone can do to stop them - including Congress.

SecureFlight (I will be posting the actual data points soon, as promised) is being designed as an informational loop-back to RealID. In a nutshell, you will be assigned an ID 'number', which will be connected to your PNR and tied to your name, DOB, address, social security number and other data points collected.

This data will then be tied to your RealID-secured license or other 'national ID' card you will be carrying. In short, there will be a number which will follow you everywhere, and be tied to all of your daily activities which could be tied to any of these data points, including credit card transactions, bank account activity, air travel, car travel (where you gas up, where you rent a car, etc.), etc. etc. etc.

The end game? The ability of DHS to create a comprehensive dossier on each and every one of us, following us through our daily lives, is becoming closer to reality.

The civil liberties issues aside, why should you care? DHS wants the next generation of RealID cards to include mandatory RFID chips - so while walking down the street, someone with a radio receiver tuned to these chips can strip off all your personal information, including name, address, social and your ID number - gee, I wonder what an identity thief could do with that information. I also wonder what those 'trustworthy' folks at DHS will do with all your personal information - especially if you're someone like a politician, wealthy or a celebrity.

I'm not sure how much effect it would have, but you could try 'poisoning' the database with random entries for your DOB and address and even social, but if we get to a point where everyone is either on the NFL or selectee list unless removed by the 'purity' of your data, then that could cause other complications for travelers. It would, however, leave DHS with a bunch of un-trackable garbage in their database.
HOW TO DISABLE AN RFID CHIP

1) Find yourself a local broadcast engineer. Ask if he has any TUBE transmitters.
2) Tell him you want him to put your ID (drivers license, passport, etc.) in the TUBE CAVITY of his transmtter and give it 30 seconds or so in the cativy with the plates on.
3) Tell him you are not joking. Mention wanting to cook the RFID chip. Offer to take him to lunch out near the transmitter site. Take the free tour of the transmitter building. Point out the staple and make sure it is far enough away form the cavity wall so it doesn't arc.
4) After the ID comes out of the transmitter, it will be warm, perhaps VERY warm, but that RFID chip will be as dead as yesterday having been swamped by thousands of watts of RF. I myself used a Harris HT-30 and it worked great!! The staple didn't vaporize either.

Simple, easy, and gets us engineers some free food. We are entirely motivated by free food.

--PP
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Old Dec 24, 08, 7:58 pm
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Originally Posted by Scubatooth View Post
hmm its looking like i mauy need to put a different address on my DL renewal so to keep Thieves & Scam Artists at bay.

How about

1060 W. Addision Chicago IL 60613

Name that movie
Only one problem...if you use that as you home address they will know you are lying unless you reek of mold and urine. However, if you can arrange to stink to high heaven of mold and urine, the TSA will believe you without question!

--PP
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Old Dec 24, 08, 8:20 pm
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Originally Posted by VideoPaul View Post
HOW TO DISABLE AN RFID CHIP

1) Find yourself a local broadcast engineer. Ask if he has any TUBE transmitters.
2) Tell him you want him to put your ID (drivers license, passport, etc.) in the TUBE CAVITY of his transmtter and give it 30 seconds or so in the cativy with the plates on.
Simple, easy, and gets us engineers some free food. We are entirely motivated by free food.--PP
I'm guessing only transmitters work, right?
So it won't do me any good to put it in my old Marantz amp, put some Jimi on the Turntable, crank it and rip the volume knob off.
Well other than p!ss off my neighbors yet again
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Old Dec 25, 08, 8:55 am
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Old Dec 25, 08, 11:14 am
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Originally Posted by Andy1369 View Post
Why do you think the airlines is allowing SF to happen if the problems outlined a few posts ago (no way to rebook during IRROPS, seat changes, etc)? You would think in this weak economy, airlines wouldn't want to diminish important functions and therefore lose business- especially during IRROPS? Would TSA have any consideration during IRROPS or the ability to transfer permissions from your original boarding pass to the new one that the airline prints? It just doesn't make sense why TSA would set it up this way?
Why? Because they want to fly today. Seriously. They have to comply with all Federal regulations.

They also know that protesting this will make them look loose on security - and with that comes some presumed liability. Aside from being forced to do it, they also don't want the liability (remember that regulation compliance is about avoiding liability if they can prove that they complied with the 'experts' in Government).

Ultimately, if IROPS get screwed up and/or passengers are left behind, they can use the excuse that "the government made me do it", and avoid paying compensation. They already use that one with weather delays.....

Originally Posted by bocastephen View Post
SecureFlight (I will be posting the actual data points soon, as promised) is being designed as an informational loop-back to RealID. In a nutshell, you will be assigned an ID 'number', which will be connected to your PNR and tied to your name, DOB, address, social security number and other data points collected.

This data will then be tied to your RealID-secured license or other 'national ID' card you will be carrying. In short, there will be a number which will follow you everywhere, and be tied to all of your daily activities which could be tied to any of these data points, including credit card transactions, bank account activity, air travel, car travel (where you gas up, where you rent a car, etc.), etc. etc. etc.

The end game? The ability of DHS to create a comprehensive dossier on each and every one of us, following us through our daily lives, is becoming closer to reality.
And this is quite close to the truth. The powers that be consider their mission to 'protect the country' regardless of the cost. And by extension, this means 'protecting every person'. Problem is that real risk analysis isn't done - it's all about protecting against the singular threat. So the ingrates don't like that we're protecting them? Then just make it secret and find a way to force them into compliance. Both Bush and Cheney are unapologetic about what thier administration has done - and they angrily blow off any suggestion that their violating the constitution.... they just don't think it applies when it comes to 'protecting the country'.

The ultimate goal is to track everyone, all the time. Remember Total Information Awareness? That was going to track everyone, even to the point of using commercial databases, credit records, and even a suggestion of getting credit card data.

Each little step is just turning up the heat under the pot, by the time Americans realize the water is boiling, it will be too late. (This is a time-tested technique that's been used by political parties and religous organizations...)
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Old Dec 25, 08, 11:23 am
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Originally Posted by Global_Hi_Flyer View Post
Each little step is just turning up the heat under the pot, by the time Americans realize the water is boiling, it will be too late. (This is a time-tested technique that's been used by political parties and religous organizations...)
And French & Creole chefs for just as long...
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Old Dec 25, 08, 11:54 pm
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Originally Posted by Global_Hi_Flyer View Post
Why? Because they want to fly today. Seriously. They have to comply with all Federal regulations.

They also know that protesting this will make them look loose on security - and with that comes some presumed liability. Aside from being forced to do it, they also don't want the liability (remember that regulation compliance is about avoiding liability if they can prove that they complied with the 'experts' in Government).

Ultimately, if IROPS get screwed up and/or passengers are left behind, they can use the excuse that "the government made me do it", and avoid paying compensation. They already use that one with weather delays.....



And this is quite close to the truth. The powers that be consider their mission to 'protect the country' regardless of the cost. And by extension, this means 'protecting every person'. Problem is that real risk analysis isn't done - it's all about protecting against the singular threat. So the ingrates don't like that we're protecting them? Then just make it secret and find a way to force them into compliance. Both Bush and Cheney are unapologetic about what thier administration has done - and they angrily blow off any suggestion that their violating the constitution.... they just don't think it applies when it comes to 'protecting the country'.

The ultimate goal is to track everyone, all the time. Remember Total Information Awareness? That was going to track everyone, even to the point of using commercial databases, credit records, and even a suggestion of getting credit card data.

Each little step is just turning up the heat under the pot, by the time Americans realize the water is boiling, it will be too late. (This is a time-tested technique that's been used by political parties and religous organizations...)

Exactly. They already use credit card data -- data which is given to the government or which is sometimes quite literally stolen by the government or those acting on the behalf of government.
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