Originally Posted by gsoltso (Post 14853861)

I agree about many things you say here - foremost being that we should police ourselves, that is something I have been preaching and practicing since I got here. If you see something wrong, tell the person that is doing it wrong, what is right and help them get it right. I am not giving every TSO the benfit of the doubt, just that the information I have conflicts with some of the things I have heard here. That being said, I can't discuss specifics on SOP and procedures, but there is some conflict between what some here are saying and what I have heard. I do not defend TSOs that do what they are not supposed to - so I hope that you and some of the other folks here don't take it that way. Every bad experience (for whatever reason) makes my job harder, so I do not like bad experiences for any passenger. As far as balking over nudity, I personally would not do so, but that is something that would have to be discussed at a higher level than me.



I did not mean to say anything against you, or your commentary. I am not saying what you posted here did not happen to you, merely that some of the reports I have been reading and hearing from people at different airports do not match up. I try to take my time in commenting on policies, and I want to give the EPD a chance to be reviewed and implemented where I have a chance to see it in action before I comment on it. Not 'tude, simply waiting and commenting on information I recieved from other sources. All it takes is one TSO to do something wrong for a day to make for bad press for us for a month or so (not that this is wrong, just that it doesn't work both ways). Please don't take my commentary as a shot at you, it is just that I have information from other sources that is different than what you have said.



The wand does not detect explosives, only metal.

Originally Posted by gsoltso (Post 14853861)

I did not mean to say anything against you, or your commentary. I am not saying what you posted here did not happen to you, merely that some of the reports I have been reading and hearing from people at different airports do not match up. I try to take my time in commenting on policies, and I want to give the EPD a chance to be reviewed and implemented where I have a chance to see it in action before I comment on it. Not 'tude, simply waiting and commenting on information I recieved from other sources. All it takes is one TSO to do something wrong for a day to make for bad press for us for a month or so (not that this is wrong, just that it doesn't work both ways). Please don't take my commentary as a shot at you, it is just that I have information from other sources that is different than what you have said.

Originally Posted by gsoltso (Post 14853861)

The wand does not detect explosives, only metal.

Originally Posted by Boggie Dog (Post 14854857)

In regards to the highlighted text above, are you suggesting that travelers should know if something is wrong?

Pray tell, how can we know these things since TSA will not divulge what things they will inflict on common citizens?

edit to add:

You again elude to "Enhanced" pat downs not being deployed at your airport yet I believe you have stated you are trained and can do these types of pat downs.

Is your airport allowed to do "Enhanced" pat downs are not? Are you personally trained to do this form of pat down?

As a side note, a discussion of interrogation tactics at CIA defined the meaning of "Enhanced". In that context it meant torture. Does TSA use "Enhanced" in the same light?

Originally Posted by Jetbee (Post 14857655)

But, in this instance, your comments are wrong. You may not be aware of this but EPD's are being done in Canada on a random basis (and have been for quite some time now) because it is a requirement of the TSA/US Government for passengers entering the USA by air. Yes, they were not even subjecting their own country to this type of screening but were demanding it be done by another country. And, unfortunately, the Canadian government has not got the cojones to stand up to them and say NO.

So, indeed, this disgusting type of screening is definitely invasive and some passengers flying into your country are being subjected to it every single day... all of this just to please the U.S. government. And, whether you choose to believe it or not, one of those people is me.

Originally Posted by chollie (Post 14862728)

Not being snarky, but reread my post. I asked why there couldn't be a regular wanding followed by a 'wanding' with an explosive swab. I suggested putting the swab on the end of a 'wand' and swabbing the same areas that have just been wanded. More comprehensive than just swabbing hands and shoes, for example. less 'intimate' than a frisk.

Originally Posted by Boggie Dog (Post 14854857)

In regards to the highlighted text above, are you suggesting that travelers should know if something is wrong?

Pray tell, how can we know these things since TSA will not divulge what things they will inflict on common citizens?

Originally Posted by gsoltso (Post 14867715)

Also, the comment above was made in reference to self policing, but if you see something that is wrong or you feel is wrong, then please say something. Your definition of wrong may be different than other people involved in the situation, but you are always free to speak up about it.^

Originally Posted by Boggie Dog (Post 14867788)

So I take it that you are perfectly happy to be required to comply with rules that you have no knowledge of?

Originally Posted by Global_Hi_Flyer (Post 14867969)

Repeat after me: "Double secret probation"....:rolleyes:

Originally Posted by gsoltso (Post 14867691)

I have not been trained on the EPD, that is the reason I have stated what I have read, and received from other sources to be my basis for commentary. What I have seen described by some folks here, and what I have been told by folks actually doing the procedure are different. I hav ebeen trained in pat down procedures, but not this specific one.

Originally Posted by docmonkey (Post 14868254)

That is SATTSO, who claims to not be a TSO and seems to have disappeared.

Originally Posted by chollie (Post 14789312)

Kind of splitting hairs, aren't you? And I was just trying to understand, not play word games. So a passenger who has opted out of WBI for medical reasons (unable to assume and hold the position) who has a dressing on a wound that shouldn't be handled harshly can realize there's no way to satisfy screening requirements (remember, I said in my original post someone who had to medically opt-out of WBI - a wheelchair pax, for instance). So passenger realizes the only way to satisfy screening requirements (drum roll, please: for the safety of all!) without undue pain and/or risk of infection. Passenger says 'no'.

Originally Posted by chollie (Post 14789312)

So the part you didn't answer before (and I asked in good faith, I feel that you replied in a misleading manner) was that after I say 'no', you summon LEOs to process me out of the area since there's no viable way to complete the screening process.

Originally Posted by chollie (Post 14789312)

I get all that. In your earlier answer, heavily padded with TSA fluff (where did I say I doubted your mission or the importance thereof), you said that ultimately someone may effectively say 'no' - as with someone who has a surgical dressing and can't assume and hold the WBI position. Other TSOs have acknowledged that 'bulk' has to be resolved. The underwear bomber's 'bulk' is the justification for cupping and squeezing balls. Surgical dressings can be soft and bulky, obviously capable of concealing something.

Originally Posted by tanja (Post 14789673)

I do respect that you cant talk about certain things. But I am still very concerned. What would you do with my granson who cant communicate at all except with the closest family. He will not understand plus he would bite strangers.

Originally Posted by RichardKenner (Post 14790236)

That's not what I was taught when I went to school! I learned that this nation was founded by people who specifically rejected the "tyranny of the majority" and recognized the diversity of all religious and moral views and that no law or regulation of the government can give any more weight to one such moral system over any other.

Originally Posted by RichardKenner (Post 14790236)

I want to make sure that I understood the above correctly. Are you saying that there are circumstances (I understand that you can't be specific about what those circumstances might be) where a person may required to have pain inflicted on them in order for them to fly and that this may be done to a disabled person because of their disability?

Originally Posted by TSORon (Post 14870379)

200 years have passed since then. Just how much of our world do you think the founding fathers would recognize and be able to deal with?

Originally Posted by TSORon (Post 14870379)

After more than 3 decades of airport security, and nearly 8 years at this level, people know the basics of what’s going to happen at the checkpoint. There should be no real surprises, after all we have the internet, the TSA web site, places like Flyertalk and other web sites dedicated to the traveling public, a whole plethora of information available to you the passenger. If you are surprised by what happens at the checkpoint then you didn’t prepare.

No, its not because of their disability, its because of their decision.

Originally Posted by TSORon (Post 14870379)

I didn’t think of it as hair splitting. It was as forthright an answer as I could give to the question asked. Now that you have clarified a bit I can give a better answer.

We have procedures for dealing with wheelchair bound passengers. We see them all the time and they fly, all the time. There are also several ways to clear a wound dressing, but again I can’t get into specifics.

If a passenger is so egregiously injured that they cannot be touched, they cannot undergo AIT screening, or that they cannot undergo WTMD screening, most likely they are not going to be at the airport anyway. For that one in a million who do anyway, they take the chance that they will not be able to get through screening.

There is another option though. I cannot speak as to how effective it might be in getting someone with all these issues through screening but I have seen it used once or twice. Call the TSA CSM for your airport and discuss the issues with them. They “may” be able to come up with alternatives or specific directives on how to get the passenger to their flight.



If one knows that they cannot complete the screening process, then they should not start. If one does not know but finds out in the middle of the process then we have a procedure in place for getting that person back out of the checkpoint without exposing the sterile area. Our calling a LEO does not mean that someone is going to jail, its just another part of procedure that we are required to follow.


Sorry, I don’t do AIT screening, but I cannot think of a situation where a TSO is going to be required to “cup a passengers testicles”. [polite]I am of the opinion that those folks claiming such are stretching the truth quite a bit.[/polite]



LOL, wouldn’t be the first kid to bite me. Obviously he cant fly by himself, he is going to need someone to escort him and I can assume given what you say that it will be someone who knows him well and whom he knows well. Given that, special needs children (I have 6 of my own, so this is an area where I can speak with confidence) require some preparation for the checkpoint experience. I could go into an entire lengthy explanation on what I would do, but it might be best if you consult a professional in your local area. His doctor, therapist, psychologist, etc..



200 years have passed since then. Just how much of our world do you think the founding fathers would recognize and be able to deal with?



Ahh, I feel you trying to back me into a corner here. Buzzzzz, no score for you, thank you very much for playing our game. Be sure to pick up your parting prize as you go out the door.

After more than 3 decades of airport security, and nearly 8 years at this level, people know the basics of what’s going to happen at the checkpoint. There should be no real surprises, after all we have the internet, the TSA web site, places like Flyertalk and other web sites dedicated to the traveling public, a whole plethora of information available to you the passenger. If you are surprised by what happens at the checkpoint then you didn’t prepare.

No, its not because of their disability, its because of their decision.