Question for TSO's
 

If a person has a "sensitive area" on their body (as in recent surgery), is the TSO still supposed to pat down that particular area?

I advised a TSO recently of one of my sensitive areas and they insisted that they still had to pat it down, and in fact 'patted' so hard that I almost fell over. It took more than a day for the pain to subside to a manageable level.

I have a complaint form, and the supervisor who was standing there witnessing the 'pat down' was extremely sympathetic and in fact did order the TSO to stop.

Yes and they also pat down your bare skin.
That part I dont understand at all.

What can you hide on your bare skin?

And what if they cause harm to your sensitive area?
Like cause bleeding , pain or brusing?

I cannot believe this...

Neither could I, but I was hesitant to post details here as in past I have been diagnosed by other posters over the interweb and apparently after several decades I have been cured. :rolleyes:

I've had a TSO wand my bare feet more than once in Maui. :rolleyes:

Being a former medic in the US Army, I've stuck with my belief of "Do not cause further injury to the patient." Then comes the TSA mindset of "All areas must be screened." It's a difficult balance. I just try to utilize every resource I have to ensure that the passenger does not pose a threat without causing any more pain (minus the inconvenience). It may result in a slightly longer screening process, but I think I satisfy TSA's requirements while reducing the possibility of inflicting any more physical pain. I can't stop the mental anguish of being at a TSA checkpoint, though. ;)

Did they feel stupid doing that?

What do they think that you hide beneath bare skin ?

They actually make me really scared of flying. Cause if they are that stupid then I am REALLY concerned and worried about if they really get that bad guy?
And what they would do if they get one.

IMO, wanding bare skin says that the TSO is just working by rote and not doing any thinking at all.

Well a person with hardly any clothes on and a lot of bare skin can hardly hide anything.
So I guess the next step is cavity search on everybody.

It is insane.

Yes agree. And my reaction is without thinking is to kick hard if I get insulted / harrassed by a stranger.

Self protection.

TSASuper pretty much hit the nail on the head. We have to screen the person, however I was trained in a similar way to them. If a person has a sensitive area, we clear it and take great care to not press down and do more damage, just enough pressure to ascertain what is there. One added benefit of AIT if you are flying is they can clear most situations of this nature without touching in some cases (mind you not all situations can be cleared that way, but many of them can). I would just make certain to tell the TSO that the area is extremely sensitive and if they are rough, go to a Supe immediately, and follow up through the official channels as well. I hope you have as good of an experience as possible.

Ascertain what is there? You mean a tampon vs. a thong? It's none of your damned business what my wife is wearing down "there".

Your apparent (& disgusting!) logic is totally backwards. A year ago you never would have gotten away with stripsearching people, yet now that you have the ability to do so electronically, somehow in your contorted reasoning that allows & requires you to perform invasive searches n lieu of an electronic stripsearch, when your authority to perform an administrative stripsearch has never existed in the first place?

We live in a free country and will continue to live in a free country. The sooner your loathsome organization is shut down, the better.

And you will be applying this technique to all involuntary opt-outs (wheelchair pax, folks unable to assume the AIT postion (hands over head), infants, toddlers/hyperactive children who can't be persuaded to assume and hold the position? Will you be trained (or have you been) trained in applying the frisk to wheelchair pax?

why wand bare feet

To see if your bunions are real or implanted detonators.

Actually, I guess you could have something taped to the bottom of your foot, but when I've had my bare feet wanded, they've always made me lift the foot up for a visual too.

TSA offers a visual experience for everyone from pedophiles to foot fetishists.

I am going to take it one step further. I am really curious what Replys I do get.

What if your "sensitive" aread are so "sensitve" that you do react on them?

Will you then be arrested for doing someting in public?

And I also want to ad that it doesnt matter to me how gentle you are if you touch my "sensitive" areas.
The reason is because they are a part of my body and my private areas. Not for you to touch.
If you do I do what my mom always told me to . Kick and scream and report it.

And it dosesnt matter what TSA and CO. tells me ,I will still react in a manner that you dont want.

Cause they smell so good, why else?

Because they're stupid.

Sorry, joking, but in my experience I'll always ask the passenger if he has any sensitive areas, as required, then inform him I'll use extra care in stated area.

I'll use extra care but I still need to clear the area. Otherwise what the hell is the point of the whole screening process.

Super Happy TSO- Do you have any sensitive areas sir?
Mr. J - My whole body is extra sensitive
Super Happy TSO- Oh thanks for letting me know Mr. J, please proceed. I'm too afraid I'll cause you pain if I touch you, enjoy your 29" pitch!

Here's the thing, either you've alarmed the metal detector or you didn't go through it in the first place. So how do I know what you possibly have on you.

The position I'm in requires I make sure no weapons or explosives are strapped to you. You must be cleared.

So what are the other options?

A "naked" body scanner. But apparently everybody hates those because all TSO are just dying to save/print/facebook upload an Avatar cat man image of Jim the 55 year old timeshare salesman.

Look, it's not an easy position to be in but the job dictates you clear each passenger so that's what I have to respectfully do.

I went through the WTMD.

I did not alarm the WTMD.

I was sent to the holding pen and another TSO even asked 'why?'

I was asked if I had any sensitive areas and although I have several I clearly indicated (and it was apparent to the TSO) the most sensitive area.

That still prompted what I would define as far more than a 'pat' ie no extra care was taken in that area, causing me significant pain for an extended period.

No, not 'everybody' hates them. Some people are involuntary opt-outs who will now undergo a frisk every time they fly (wheelchair pax, infants, people who are medically incapable of assuming and holding the position).

Here's the thing. My 82-yr-old mother (who flies several times a year) really doesn't care about the nudie machine. She'd cooperatively go through it. Except that she has a rotator cuff issue. She's physically incapable of of raising her arm more than about 20° from vertical.

So, she has no options. She will be subject to your invasive groping, whether she is cooperative or not. And even though she managed to fly four months ago without blowing up the plane AND without being groped.

Because -- let's face the facts -- there is no way to "respectfully" grope an 82-yr-old woman with a bad shoulder, simply because she has a bad shoulder.

The very concept is oxymoronic.

~~ Irish

Thanks everyone for their opinions. I've just had elbow surgery a few weeks ago and also have enough scapula/rotator cuff damage (from the same accident which injured my elbow) that I am not able to lift my arms above my head. Even if I could, I would still refuse the nude-o-scope.

You know, careful or not, it definitely ticks me off that a screening officer might have to pat down my elbow because it is still very sore and will be for a few months to come. :mad: This kind of screening mentality is just insane.

It's not an "avatar cat image". Quit repeating the lies.

TSA has indicated publicly that the technology that turns the images into stick figures does not meet their needs and continues to be developed. TSA's bid specifications specifically require that the machines be capable of storing images. Roland Negrin's diminutive "junk" would not have been visible on a stick figure. And last but not least, the US Marshals Service would not be in trouble for saving 32,000 stick figures in a Florida courthouse; I trust the US Marshals Service far more than I trust TSA, and the US Marshals Service has managed to flunk royally.

& did I mention that the sample photos that Thousands Standing Around posted on their own web site showed an awful lot of detail?

This just addresses the modesty aspect of the devices. On the health side, we are faced with either being bombarded by ionizing radiation which causes cancer & cataracts or being cooked with microwaves derived from Raytheon's Pain Ray. TSA has refused FOIA requests for test reports regarding radiation levels & safety analysis.

Thanks, but I will decline either, and I have absolutely no respect for those who lie to me.

Display some sense of integrity and get a respectable job.

Unfortunately I see a conflict here between these two statements. I suspect that the first comes from prior knowledge and training, and the realization that even slight pressure can cause additional pain or injury.

gsoltso, if you were to place pressure on an injury it could cause significant pain to that passenger.

TSASuper, is there training for the TSOs to learn how to handle those with medical conditions? It was clear that the woman doing my 'pat down' had no idea that she was causing pain and physical reactions until her supervisor told her that she was the direct cause of the reaction, and that she needed to stop what she was doing immediately. And this was in the 'medical liquids' lane in which I somehow found myself per the direction of the document checker.

OP, I hope that you are feeling better soon, and I hope that you have a painless experience, but sadly not every TSO is as aware or as careful as TSASuper seems to be.

Your job is an absurd, pathetic farce that makes no one safer and advances the aims of the very terrorists your agency fancies itself to be defending the country from. You can't do that "respectfully."

This rampant stupidity is mind boggling.....

Remarks about highlighted text above.

That is exactly what the public is asking.

I would suggest you find work that does not make you an enemy of the public.

Nice leap of logic there Mike, but I was discussing a situation where someone indicated they had surgery or a sensitive are because of stitches, staples, etc. I answered the question of the OP only, anything else you read into what I wrote is entirely your speculation.

I have had training on how to screen folks with many forms of disabilities, whether they are permanent or temporary.

I understand how frustrating and maddening it can be, but NOR hit the nail on the head with their earlier comments - the job dictates that we will screen each person that comes through to the best of our ability. My commentary above was not really as clear as it could have been, so let me elaborate some based on previous experiences. In some cases it just hurts the passenger too much to really "pat down" an area, in those situations, it is best to talk to the passenger, explain that you simply need to clear that area of threats and find the best solution for that individual passenger. I have done visual inspections as well as physical (touching) inspections based on that passengers needs.

We have to screen everyone that comes through, because as soon as we let all passengers with a cast go with no additional screening or someone that has had surgery with no screening, or people in a wheelchair go with no screening, or "Granny" go with no screening - someone with bad intentions will notice and try to use it to their advantage. :(

I elaborated better above for you as well Ex.

You'd think ANYONE would feel stupid wanding bare skin. Or insisting that cloth baby booties go through the x-ray. Or taking Pirates of the Caribbean plastic swords from kids in MCO. But, apparently, they don't feel stupid doing those things. Or at any rate, they don't feel any more stupid than they usually do.

But don't worry Tanja. TSA isn't there to keep you safe. They're there to make stupid people feel safe.

Sorry, but I seriously doubt the bolded sentence above. If someone has a surgical site covered by clothing, the nude-o-scope is going to highlight any thick bandages, metal staples, etc, requiring a physical search to "resolve" the alarm and causing more inconvenience and discomfort.

This is in addition to the numerous reports from various airports that EVERYONE going through the nude-o-scope was getting a post-NOS patdown anyway. :rolleyes:

(bolding mine Interesting that we've come full circle on the visual. Remember the woman with pierced nipples who was willing to allow the TSO to visually resolve the alarm but was told SOP didn't allow that?

Yes, I understand that 'granny in the wheelchair' can't be exempt. Just want to be clear that there's a big difference between wanding granny and doing a full, open-palm frisk over every part of her body while she's in the wheelchair. And I assume it will mean that some post-surgery pax will have to remove bulky dressings for visual inspection if the alternative would be pressure that might rupture an incision or cause undue pain. And I understand that infants and toddlers who can't assume and hold the position for the scan will have to be subjected to a frisk because a diaper is just as likely to be used to conceal something as a grown man's underpants or a woman's bra. Now, more than ever, it would be great to think there will be some sort of screening so that only TSO's with at least a modicum of respect for the pax will be allowed and that complaints of invasive or rough handling will be tracked and acted on, regardless of intent, but that's probably too much to hope for. After all, if you receive an unusual number of complaints about rough handling against a particular TSO, aren't you willing to give the pax the benefit of a doubt and assume that perhaps the TSO just doesn't know his/her own strength?

When you train, do you get hands-on training and feedback of your technique, or do you just watch videos and demos? (I ask because I know a doctor whose practice involves some rather invasive manual probing. Her class initially demo'd and practiced on a dummy before doing it on volunteers and they all were subjected to the same exam themselves so they really had a sense of what it should be like, and what it should not feel like.)

Since a high school diploma is not required to become a TSA screening clerk, it is best not to confuse them with any ability to make a judgment call for common sense.

I think Sattso posted once that sometimes the bare skin wand is just habit. You wand everything all the time.

It just occurred to me...so now I'll get my feet frisked every time I have to involuntarily opt-out? Eew...I will be really sure to request glove changes. I wonder if they'll frisk between my toes...

There will always be situations that require an STSO on the checkpoint to make a call, whether it is covered by SOP or something that was not necessarily taken into account by the SOP - and (at least in my experience) common sense rules that situation.

I have the same wishes you do in the case of a specific TSO having complaints, at a minimum, they need to be counselled on proper procedure and that can actually be done tactfully at the start. I am certain that there are some of us (the woman tells me I am "heavy handed", so I have to take great care in dealing with folks that fall into the category we have been discussing, and passengers in general for that matter) that could benefit from what you mention. The thing I hope everyone (TSOs included) gets is that just because someone has an injury or a disability or something that requires extra screening of any kind - is not extra work or a problem or something to be upset about, it is one of the reasons we are here and get the training we do. They have just as much right to travel as I do, and should be afforded the same courtesy and professionalism that I would get. In the case that any passenger doesn't get professional service, they should forward complaints up the chain.

The training I have recieved has been hands on, book training, lecture (over and over and over). One good aspect of that practicing with other TSOs is it gives you the chance to physically do what is expected of you repeatedly away from the checkpoint, it also allows automatic critique of the method by someone else that knows what is going on. Our training started my first day, and has been ongoing since then. We have some of the best training, and MOST training I have had since I left the Army (and anyone that has been in the military understands how constant that is).

I will admit that I have a more vested interest in folks with disabilities because of family members that had them, but that is personal. I also am "too nice" according to most of the people that are important in my life, there opinion is that I am something of an anomoly in that respect (I take the "more flies with honey" adage a bit too far I guess).

Actually, I was particularly wondering about the hands-on frisk training. It seems to me that if you frisk each other, that could be uncomfortable (it would be for me). I can't imagine any situation where I'd feel comfortable cupping the genitals or breasts of a co-worker. And presumably Rolando Negrin hadn't been frisked by his own co-workers or they would already have known how he is built.

I know someone (forced early retirement) who had always assumed she would work for TSA post-retirement. She believes in the fundamental mission, has personally had bad encounters, wanted to try to make a small difference from within. This has been a deal-breaker for her, she's just not comfortable with touching women and children's privates. She understands the threat, just feels she's not the person who can perform these functions.

I also wonder if the training includes hands-on frisking of someone in a wheelchair or hands-on handling of someone with post-surgical bandages or a colostomy bag. Or does it include the full-on frisk of an infant? If you've ever tried to help someone in a wheelchair. I certainly hope the training includes hands-on practice, not just for the pax, but also because if you don't know what you're doing (and even if you do), you can really mess up your back trying to reach all parts of a wheelchair person's body while they are still in the chair.

Videos and demos are great, but there's no substitute for hands-on training. Even if you're accustomed to intimately handling folks of the same gender because of your sexual preferences, handling them in that manner isn't the same as handling them professionally.

So how do you handle people that get so upset that they brake down?

Start crying and shaking.? Get sick from it ?

Do you know that there is a lot of cultures and religions that it is a sin for a stranger to view /touch their body.

This is not security at all.

Yes, usually we do feel kind of stupid doing it, but it’s what we get paid for.

There are people here at TS/S who think that “bum” bombs are a threat. There is no limit to what people can rationalize.

Kindly read what the OP wrote. Your comments are inappropriate to the thread.

Because they are usually attached to legs? :D

Ever hear of someone using tape to hide something on the bottom of their feet? I’ve seen it.

Be careful. The areas still need to be cleared, but we are going to do our best to not cause pain during the clearing.

I once screened a disabled person who had a medical condition that made his entire body painful to the touch. It was the longest screening I have ever done, and just watching the guys face as I did the FBPD was nearly as painful for me as it was for him.

The moral of the story is, let us know if you have a condition like that (painful areas) and we will do what we can to help.

No.

OK, step back. You are changing gears here without letting us know. Sensitive “painful” areas are different than Sensitive “private” areas. Look over the OP’s post, you will understand what I mean.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/14764229-post1.html

And you go to jail. Geez people, try and be rational. I don’t know you, I don’t know if you are a terrorist or not (most likely you are not, but there is always that chance), and I have a job that requires me to make sure that no prohibited items are brought through the checkpoint by passengers. I am not assaulting you, so stop claiming I am. Call the cops and I will not be the one going out in handcuffs.

And you will pay the price for an inappropriate decision.

I am being inappropiate???
I dont think so.
I have a normal reaction if somebody touches me in my private areas.


I dont like it at all.
And yes they would handcuff me a tiny skinny grandmother cause I get offened that I get touched to fly.

And no i am not a terrorist . i can hardly even kill a spider.

But I raised that my body is mine and if somebody does something against your will and you fell bad about it. defend your self.

I rather go to a private room and take off all my clothes.
If they are women. But being touched by a stranger NO that is not happening.
So what happens if I still get touc hed and start crying/
You guys just laughs away telling me that I will feel safer than you have touched my breats and genitals.
Who are you kidding/ Not me.

No such animal.

That would be "none," if you're traveling by air travel, then, since your agency's workforce is neither courteous nor professional.