Originally Posted by SATTSO (Post 14836959)

Maybe for you. I don't care for signatures, sorry.

I haven't really looked through the links the moderator sent me, just been too busy, and to be very honest, this site is low on my priorities list; just being honest. If I never change my name no matter what position at TSA I have, I can live with that. Sorry, if you can't.

Originally Posted by Boggie Dog (Post 14837191)

What if a person doesn't wish to go in a private room with TSA employees?

Being out in public would b much safer for the individual.

Originally Posted by VH-RMD (Post 14837548)

then nothing short of a piece of 4'b'2 will, I imagine...

Originally Posted by doober (Post 14837550)

Low on your list of priorities and you've still managed to post over 2,000 times in a year, 5.38 posts per day? Something doesn't compute.

Originally Posted by SATTSO (Post 14836931)

Well, gee, we know the media NEVER gets anything wrong.... It amazes me how many well educated, intelligent people believe EVERYTHING they read in the "paper". I guess as a society we expect the news we are given to be accurate, so we just assume that it is.

Originally Posted by SATTSO (Post 14837531)

You think it's a trick question (and yes; I know what BD was getting to), but I don't really think it is a trick question. The public may or may not know what pat-downs we do, but common sense should prevail - at least on the part of the passenger. Did the TSO slap your body? Did they pinch you? Did they give you advisement? Did the TSO tell you what was happening and why (you alarmed the WTMD, opt out from WBI, random, etc? And I could go on.

Originally Posted by SATTSO (Post 14837531)

I do not believe and never will (though your welcome to try and change my mind) that you need to know the exact procedure for a passenger to know if they were treated with respect and if the pat-down was the appropriate.

Originally Posted by SATTSO (Post 14837531)

For example, if by chance you do receive the so-called enhanced pat-down, and your not told why, the process is not described to you before hand, and private screening is not offered, even if the physical act of the pat-down was 100% correct, the entire process was inappropriate, and you have no practical recourse.

Originally Posted by SATTSO (Post 14837531)

I do not believe and never will (though your welcome to try and change my mind) that you need to know the exact procedure for a passenger to know if they were treated with respect and if the pat-down was the appropriate.

Originally Posted by SATTSO (Post 14837531)

You think it's a trick question (and yes; I know what BD was getting to), but I don't really think it is a trick question. The public may or may not know what pat-downs we do, but common sense should prevail - at least on the part of the passenger. Did the TSO slap your body? Did they pinch you? Did they give you advisement? Did the TSO tell you what was happening and why (you alarmed the WTMD, opt out from WBI, random, etc? And I could go on.

I do not believe and never will (though your welcome to try and change my mind) that you need to know the exact procedure for a passenger to know if they were treated with respect and if the pat-down was the appropriate.

For example, if by chance you do receive the so-called enhanced pat-down, and your not told why, the process is not described to you before hand, and private screening is not offered, even if the physical act of the pat-down was 100% correct, the entire process was inappropriate.

Originally Posted by SATTSO (Post 14837564)

If you receive the enhanced pat-down you will be asked to bring a witness. If you are not traveling with anyone, my advise is to ask for an airline representative or a LEO to be your witness. If you do ask for that, the procedure will not start till your witness is there.

And if you really want to refuse the private screening - well I've answered that earlier, but we had established people here don't read. I guess they are too angry to do so, and just want to snap off a response? Just guessing...

Originally Posted by SATTSO (Post 14837314)

I have to ask, because I am not sure what you mean, but what does being patted down "in an inappropriate way" mean to you?

Originally Posted by SATTSO (Post 14837564)

If you receive the enhanced pat-down you will be asked to bring a witness. If you are not traveling with anyone, my advise is to ask for an airline representative or a LEO to be your witness. If you do ask for that, the procedure will not start till your witness is there.

Originally Posted by docmonkey (Post 14840914)

TSA Bob, could you please clarify? The answers we are getting in this thread are confusing. Your http://blog.tsa.gov/2010/08/enhanced-pat-downs.html blog post doesn't mention witnesses or private pat downs. We need some clarity from an official source so we can know when a screener has overstepped the bounds of what is allowed by the agency. Your post is so vague. When we are talking about possibly allowing our children's bodies to be touched by TSA employees, we want specificity.

From your user profile it appears your last activity on FT was yesterday at 10:32 AM, so I would appreciate some clarifications about patting down passengers. Thanks.

Originally Posted by Boggie Dog (Post 14841478)

I'm starting to think that some who identify themselves as TSA are just plants with the mission to confuse any topic when discussing TSA procedures.

Originally Posted by chollie (Post 14809129)

I hope I am misunderstanding you here.

I do believe that some folks have experienced a frisk that involved cupping genitals, stroking a hand down the buttocks cleft, touching breasts, and palming buttocks. This isn't just folks of both genders reporting, bystanders have also reported seeing it. To pretend otherwise is to say, in effect, that there's no TSO who would go over the line, but there are passengers who would go over the line and make up a story. Sorry, that doesn't fly. Remember Rolando Negrin?

There's also enough reports that I consider credible that folks with bulky clothing get subjected to extra scrutiny, even going through the WTMD. And that the AIT can't reliably penetrate bulky layers (like a surgical dressing), so an additional patdown is required.

At least one TSO on this forum mentioned visual confirmation, and I believe when TSA was originally asked about folks with colostomy bags, etc, there was mention of 'questioning' to resolve the issues. (??) Someone with a fake surgical device is going to tell the truth when questioned?

There's a few too many specific reports out there for me to believe that it isn't as invasive or rough as reported.

Should it be that way? No. Do you do it that way? You say you don't. Can you be sure that other TSOs don't do it that way? No. I think you (or any TSO) really put people's backs up when you routinely give TSOs the benefit of the doubt and rarely give the passenger the benefit of a doubt.

I would think it's in your best interests to self-police. If I were frisking a pax and I looked over to see other TSOs standing watching, I would immediately stop what I was doing and ask them why they are watching. I would refuse to continue the screening as long as they were watching. I would make it clear to the pax that frisking is not a spectator sport. The truth is, if you're in a situation like that and you don't confront or report your fellow TSOs, you are tacitly supporting their behavior. TSOs post on this forum and the blog about how stressful it gets when jerk passengers come through the checkpoint, how stressful, implying that maybe they subsequently take out their hostility on the next pax in line. Unprofessional. Further, it works both ways. If I have a bad encounter with a TSO (or someone close to me does or I observe a total stranger being mistreated by a TSO), I approach the next encounter with foreboding. At that point, if you say 'good morning', I'm not likely to be in a mood to respond in kind.

In short, you ask us to give you the benefit of a doubt. Please do the same in return. Not all pax go to a checkpoint with a chip on their shoulder (most don't). Not all TSOs have integrity and respect the pax. Most do, but if even one TSO has a chip on his/her shoulder, he affects a LOT of pax in just one day.



Yes, our society has puritanical roots. Those puritanical roots mean that most folks aren't comfortable with nudity or being frisked. Most folks wouldn't be comfortable viewing the nudity or doing the frisking either.

If TSA can learn to frisk open-palmed and look at virtually nude images, then surely if a pax is willing, TSA shouldn't balk at someone who chooses actual nudity over being touched.

Originally Posted by Jetbee (Post 14809174)

EXCUSE ME?! When someone is patting down my breasts (in front of a bunch of other TSO's and passengers), I call that invasive!!! :mad: I would never allow my husband to touch me like that in public so why should I allow a screener to do so? And, for the sake of all those reading along, a screening officer has done this to me two times already.

BTW, law enforcement is not allowed to do a patdown in my country (touching genitals/breasts) unless they have a reason that will stand up in court (not sure of the laws in the U.S.). But, screeners get to do whatever they want in the name of "keeping the country secure". What a load of $#@%.

You know, until you made that statement above, I was fairly agreeable with the info you have posted in this thread. But, now, all I see another TSO with 'tude.

Originally Posted by chollie (Post 14809251)

If I understand correctly, the wand won't detect explosives. The frisk is to detect anomalies, ie the underpants bomber's 'package'.

Why can't an opt-out passenger be wanded with the regular wand, then wanded again with a 'wand' with an explosive-testing swab on it? I'd rather be touched with a wand than a hand (even though I understand some TSOs get creative in using the wand, particularly with women wearing skirts).

Wands don't clutch and grab.