Another attempt? I didn't realize you had asked me eariler, sorry I missed it. Will the wound be covered, will their be a reason to pat that area down?

It does happen, yes. And if we didn't do so when the HHMD alarms, or WTMD alarms, or ETD alarms, etc, people here would post what they love to post: "FAIL". Many here would point out that a bandage could be used to conceal a threat item - and you know what I'm saying is true.

But do we pat people down simply because they have an injury? No. It all depends if they wear a brace, cast, etc, which determines additional screening.

Where did I say we would look in the diaper???? In fact, we can not do that.

Here are two 'L's for you ;)

But I am concerned; based on the several reports here (including my own), some ( a few? several? most?) TSOs don't seem to be aware of or concerned about causing further pain or damage to injuries. There was another report of this yesterday here.

This traveller has been around the world multiple times, and recently even did a long haul medevac flight. I don't want to knowingly have him face people who don't seem to be as aware or understanding of injuries. I know that this isn't the case everywhere, but the lack of responses or the vague responses by some TSOs and what we see in person does concern me.

Then again, perhaps I should just agree with chollie that things are not always as they appear, and that perhaps some posters just like to create the confusion and concern that appears throughout this thread.

I don't believe that I asked you specifically earlier; it was a general reposting of the question which had not been answered, as OP's original question has been somewhat muddied as there are several tangents on this thread.

I went back and reread your answer and unfortunately it doesn't alleviate my concerns.

If I presented to you with a sling, or a bandage, or a covering on a wound, and there was some reason to perform a secondary, does your training address how you deal with those situations? Are you taught how to examine an area with a dressing covering some of the body for instance? I know that some TSOs ask if there are sensitive areas; if the passenger points one out, how does the TSO then check that area without causing more pain or injury?

AngryMiller reported something earlier in this thread about a surgical wound for instance.

If you receive the front the hand pat-down you HAVE to be told it's about to happen, asked to bring a witness (ask a LEO if your by yourself) and the TSA employees wl have to write a report to justify why they did so. A TSA employee who violates such a procedure will most likely be fired.

The body scanners have found many people who hid things in the front of their underpants. Unlike the WTMD you get one pass through the WBI. So if you stuff something there, you will get that pat-down - easy to remove one thing and leave another item there. And to be honest, if any passenger stuffs something there to bypass security, they are lucky that's all that happens, if they are not arrested.

Why is it being reported that it's happening wide spread? My opinion is there are several reasons, one being people like to spread fear. Another is if you opt out of the wbi you get the full pat-down that has exist for years, comes close to the genital area, and does use the back of the hand.

Ah, ha! So now the terrorists know that all they have to do is wear an adult diaper through security in order to smuggle something on board a plane. Good to know, for terrorists and non-terrorists alike. :D

To be honest, you believe as you feel. The only time I think I could get someone on this site to believe what I say is to agree with the preconceived notions/beliefs already widespread here based on incomplete information and faulty assumptions.

Ok, I'm finished for the day. Have a good night! :)

And yet, abundant reports indicate that front-of-hand genital fondling has been implemented alongside your strip-search technology, with no indications of written reports or fired screening clerks.

Methinks you don't know what you are talking about.

1. Is there any public documentation regarding this? The TSA Blog's posting on this subject was completely uninformative. In short ... given that we don't know who you are, why should we trust that your understanding of the policy is correct? (No offense.)

2. There were reports here that the enhanced pat-down was being administered to everyone who opted-out of the WBI --- not the ordinary pat-down, as you report. Obviously, either other TSA sites don't understand the new policy, or you don't --- or, possibly, both.

3. You'll forgive me if I'm skeptical about the claim that a TSO who doesn't follow the proper procedures (as outlined in your first paragraph) will most likely be fired. (Alvin Crabtree, anyone?)

Which returns me to point (1) again. If there was public, verifiable information about this screening procedure, passengers (of all sorts) could prepare for it. But TSA has chosen not to produce that information, claiming SSI.

No you didnt say that. that is why I asked. You talked about liquids. Just a question.

How can you then see that it is not a threat but body ....?

Incomplete information is solely the fault of TSA. Travelers deserve to know what rules they must comply with and knowing the law is one of the tenets of America's supposedly free society.

It truly is a shame that TSA operates the way it does and can con people to work for the agency.

SATTSO, I think you stepped into a minefield here.

If you've read the thread from the beginning, you'll see
what seemed like straightforward, reasonable concerns based on multiple reports (including published reports in a Boston newspaper, I think). Reports were coming out saying that in some cases everyone who went through WBI got a full-body frisk. Further, there were a few too many reports to ignore that said open palms were being used. In some cases, folks reported both palms sliding with pressure down arms and legs (enough to tug at trousers). In some cases, various degrees of genital contact (cupping, squeezing) were reported. Also reports by women, one of whom had to open her shirt - apparently she had some kind of pads under her bra straps that showed up as something unusual on the WBI. This coupled with vague answers from TSA when asked about things like colostomy bags, sanitary napkins, diapers - how would they be resolved? The understanding is that they would appear as an anomaly and require some kind of resolution. In view of the underpants bomber, that's reasonable. Now personally, I don't know why 'anomalies' of that nature (or a bullky dressing on a wound that could conceal something) couldn't be cleared without pain to the pax by the WTMD and ETD - but I'm not the one making those decisions, of course. If genitals had to be probed, it was reasonable to worry that other bulk in that area would have to be also.

I do recall that another TSO posted that infants would not be subject to an open palm frisk or a diaper inspection, that there are already procedures in place for screening infants (since an adult can't be properly screened while holding an infant and TSOs are apparently forbidden to hold the child).

I don't remember where, but I did see something (outside FT) that I believe came from a TSO spokesperson who mentioned that such things as 'surgical appliances, colostomy bags' would be 'resolved' by conversations with the pax and possibly visual clearance. I remember at the time thinking "what terrorist would say 'yes'" if asked about a purported medical anomaly, but I assume if conversation is part of a resolution, BDOs will be involved, although of course the spokesman didn't say.

If you haven't gone through the entire thread, you've missed some (I believe deliberately) insulting and circuitous non-replies from someone who purports to represent your organization. As is often the case, his responses simply accomplished their goal, to confuse and rile folks. I don't even know if the WBIs are at his airport yet, assuming he works at one.

I think it's also fair to say that we know you don't make the rules, your hands are tied as far as what you can say, and ultimately, you can't really speak with a high degree of authority about what goes on at checkpoints that you don't either work at or travel through regularly. I (we) know that.
You certainly know (or should know) what's supposed to be happening, but it may not be.

Classic example (short and simple): NEXUS is listed on the website, Pistole specifically mentioned additional training for it, yet even supervisors will deny that it is acceptable.

To tell a person who will be travelling with a special needs pax, particularly one who has travelled before, that all they need to do is go to the website to find out how things will be handled at the WBI and then go on to say that if they don't get handled that way, well TSOs are human too, sometimes they make mistakes and if it's too stressful now for that special needs pax, well, maybe they should reconsider travelling by air in the future - come on, SATTSO, that's worse than no answer, that's contemptible and inflammatory.

Anyway, i think you're a bit late to the party, just wanted to give you an overview of what you stepped into. :p

chollie summed up this thread nicely, but SATTSO let me say again what I have said many times:

I was if anything 'on side' with TSA, or neutral, until recently. I even defended the TSA on other websites as 'the rules are the rules'. While I don't believe that I was what some here call a TSA apologist, I did think that there was an awful lot of tinfoil scattered around the TS&S forum.

Then I did some research, I began to fly again more in the US, and I started to read here. There are TSOs here who frankly seem to enjoy causing confusion or upset, even if what they say isn't entirely the truth, just as there are TSOs in the real world who seem to enjoy behaving poorly.

I have also experienced several things personally this year which concern me. Those are not second hand reports in my case; they are actual live experiences coming from someone who didn't have any grudge towards TSA or even any negative feelings for the most part, until recently.

One of the moderators here knows me well (albeit she is not a TS&S moderator) For years she has heard about my travel experiences and my opinion towards TSA. Many of the posters on FT 'know' me as well and can certainly support the fact that I was not anti-TSA until recently. Even now, I don't believe that I assume that TSA equates to 'bad', but I do question a lot more than I did in the past, and I am a lot more willing to stand up to TSOs here than I would have done last year.

Wait a minute, I am confused here - you have stated before (can't find the post at the moment) that the "front of hand" pat-down will never be performed by a TSO and will always be done in a private room. Has that now changed?

22 pages in, I don't know if any of us feel more enlightened than when OP began this thread. I know that I am more confused and more disturbed than I was when I started back on page 1.

I couldn't agree with you more...

What I did find out during my travels last week was that, even though I never set off the WTMD at any of the airports that I was flying through, I did get "randomly" selected again at one check point for additional screening. And, the screener DID pat down the recent surgical site on my arm and also patted down my injured shoulder/scapula area. Although I felt some pain from the pressure used, it was not unbearable. However, I still do not understand why this has to be done -- especially when my arm was not even covered by clothing and was totally visible. No doubt, another screener on the old power trip of "I do it because I can".