Norwegian Air stability through summer?
Apr 14, 2019, 9:04 pm
#137
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 9,307
The US airlines and their fans are far more concerned by the Mideast airlines. That's WAY more problematic for them. Norwegian has to pay their bills. The Middle Eastern airlines don't. As long as the sheikhs write blank checks (for billions every year), the Middle Eastern airlines can continue to lose money forever. It is impossible for a for-profit company to compete against a company that can afford to lose billions every year. Which is why there are basically no US airlines flying to the Middle East (except Israel, where those airlines don't fly). It also dramatically curtails US airline service to the Indian subcontinent, where the Middle East is a good hub location. Eventually even sheikhs can't lose billions, so reform does occur (and has already started to occur). But that situation is far more troublesome for USA airlines that a bad business plan by an eccentric Norwegian.
Apr 15, 2019, 5:35 am
#138
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Last edited by GUWonder; Apr 15, 2019 at 6:26 am
Apr 15, 2019, 9:27 am
#139
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Perhaps here it’s because HKA doesn’t have as big an impact on US and worldwide consumers as the US3 and the airlines that are in much closer cahoots with the US3 than HKA. But the point is about who and why some people are more eager about the demise of Norwegian than about 9W (or, for you, HKA). Thank you for facilitating my points.
Norwegian needs to raise all fares a minimum of 10% in order to get close to breakeven and that assumes no loss of passengers. 15% across the board ticket price increases is a more logical target due to lower demand at higher prices. I frankly don't understand Norwegian management's inability to recognize that fact. They need to do those fare increases quickly because their negative margins are unsustainable.
More broadly, I am in awe at how Norwegian has turned itself from a profitable airline that served Europe to an international airline that is hemorrhaging money so rapidly that other airlines have no interest in the company or the assets it has for sale. One doesn't normally see a business model go from very good to absolutely horrific in such a short timeframe with the same management team at the helm.
As for Hong Kong Airlines' impact on the US market, they have a much bigger impact on the US market (west coast) than Jet Airways which doesn't have a single flight to the US. So what difference does it make if I don't follow an airline in a region where the standard of living is so low that they can't charge fares high enough to cover their cost of doing business? Pretty much every Indian airline is on shaky ground unless they're subsidized.
And if my comments bother you so much, simply put me on ignore. You won't hurt my feelings.
Apr 15, 2019, 10:03 am
#140
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Jet Airways was co-opted by members of the US3 & EU3 cartel kingpins, and their own-metal route network to the US has been downed already. And the HKA injection into the topic just goes toward proving my point.
Apr 15, 2019, 7:10 pm
#142
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Apr 16, 2019, 4:18 am
#143
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While I try to avoid Norwegian like the plague when it comes to long-haul flights, their short-haul isn’t all that bad and sometimes even their long-haul flights may work out better than putting up with the hassles of dealing with the US3+EU3 cartels.
Apr 18, 2019, 5:00 am
#144
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My fear when dealing with LCCs, is the fear of getting hit with some unforseen charge or being half an ounce heavier or half an inch wider than their baggage allowances. I know that if you follow the rules it all goes smoothly but I feel their profit motive centres around catching people out.
Apr 18, 2019, 7:57 am
#145
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My fear when dealing with LCCs, is the fear of getting hit with some unforseen charge or being half an ounce heavier or half an inch wider than their baggage allowances. I know that if you follow the rules it all goes smoothly but I feel their profit motive centres around catching people out.
We just traveled as a family of 4 to MAD & CDG last week and we were meticulous to follow the carry on and check in luggage limits all European LCC states.
We flew both Norwegian (Low Fare) transatlantic and Transavia (coach economy fare) EU flight.
Both follow the same weight and size limits.
We pre paid for 2 check in luggage at $40 each leg - both Transavia and Norwegian.
As a result of pre-weighing and knowing who has "extra" room - we did not get dinged for any excess on all 3 legs in Europe.
Interestingly, the US side of Norwegian, they will allow bulk / group weighing of carry on and then the same bulk weighing for the check in luggage which meant we did not have to each have the same weight. Made for a super quick checkin.
But on the Europe side of Norwegian, we had to weigh each item separately and caused us to swap out contents among the others to make the weight. It was more of a hassle with the Europe side having to shift weight around and took an extra 10 minutes at the check in line but at least we were not charged extra.
Side note: the agent was very nice when we saw us juggling items to shift the weights around each item and took pity on us when he saw that a heavy Disney Paris souvenir item was causing us grief. He said - no problem and allowed us to be over 2kG (5 lbs) in one of our luggage and let us thru without hassling us for extra charges. It was nice to see humanity on a LCC !
On the other hand, there were lots of Americans being charged $100 at LAX and 100€ in CDG for having their check in or carry on too heavy or too large. Much loud shouting was heard from them....
I was embarrassed because spoiled uneducated Americans could not get their cake and eat it too....
I felt the urge to tell them to fly a full fare US carrier if they are not happy flying a European LCC....
Last edited by 4sallypat; Apr 18, 2019 at 8:02 am Reason: side note
Apr 18, 2019, 8:09 am
#146
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It's amazing to see how US travelers have become so spoiled when you start fly on European LCC....
We just traveled as a family of 4 to MAD & CDG last week and we were meticulous to follow the carry on and check in luggage limits all European LCC states.
We flew both Norwegian (Low Fare) transatlantic and Transavia (coach economy fare) EU flight.
Both follow the same weight and size limits.
We pre paid for 2 check in luggage at $40 each leg - both Transavia and Norwegian.
As a result of pre-weighing and knowing who has "extra" room - we did not get dinged for any excess on all 3 legs in Europe.
Interestingly, the US side of Norwegian, they will allow bulk / group weighing of carry on and then the same bulk weighing for the check in luggage which meant we did not have to each have the same weight. Made for a super quick checkin.
But on the Europe side of Norwegian, we had to weigh each item separately and caused us to swap out contents among the others to make the weight. It was more of a hassle with the Europe side having to shift weight around and took an extra 10 minutes at the check in line but at least we were not charged extra.
Side note: the agent was very nice when we saw us juggling items to shift the weights around each item and took pity on us when he saw that a heavy Disney Paris souvenir item was causing us grief. He said - no problem and allowed us to be over 2kG (5 lbs) in one of our luggage and let us thru without hassling us for extra charges. It was nice to see humanity on a LCC !
On the other hand, there were lots of Americans being charged $100 at LAX and 100€ in CDG for having their check in or carry on too heavy or too large. Much loud shouting was heard from them....
I was embarrassed because spoiled uneducated Americans could not get their cake and eat it too....
I felt the urge to tell them to fly a full fare US carrier if they are not happy flying a European LCC....
We just traveled as a family of 4 to MAD & CDG last week and we were meticulous to follow the carry on and check in luggage limits all European LCC states.
We flew both Norwegian (Low Fare) transatlantic and Transavia (coach economy fare) EU flight.
Both follow the same weight and size limits.
We pre paid for 2 check in luggage at $40 each leg - both Transavia and Norwegian.
As a result of pre-weighing and knowing who has "extra" room - we did not get dinged for any excess on all 3 legs in Europe.
Interestingly, the US side of Norwegian, they will allow bulk / group weighing of carry on and then the same bulk weighing for the check in luggage which meant we did not have to each have the same weight. Made for a super quick checkin.
But on the Europe side of Norwegian, we had to weigh each item separately and caused us to swap out contents among the others to make the weight. It was more of a hassle with the Europe side having to shift weight around and took an extra 10 minutes at the check in line but at least we were not charged extra.
Side note: the agent was very nice when we saw us juggling items to shift the weights around each item and took pity on us when he saw that a heavy Disney Paris souvenir item was causing us grief. He said - no problem and allowed us to be over 2kG (5 lbs) in one of our luggage and let us thru without hassling us for extra charges. It was nice to see humanity on a LCC !
On the other hand, there were lots of Americans being charged $100 at LAX and 100€ in CDG for having their check in or carry on too heavy or too large. Much loud shouting was heard from them....
I was embarrassed because spoiled uneducated Americans could not get their cake and eat it too....
I felt the urge to tell them to fly a full fare US carrier if they are not happy flying a European LCC....
FWIW, if I ever did fly Norwegian, I would take the option that permitted baggage, food and seat selection as part of the fare.
Apr 18, 2019, 8:38 am
#147
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My fear when dealing with LCCs, is the fear of getting hit with some unforseen charge or being half an ounce heavier or half an inch wider than their baggage allowances. I know that if you follow the rules it all goes smoothly but I feel their profit motive centres around catching people out.
I don’t feel like DY short-haul is playing any more of a “gotcha” game than various legacy majors.
Apr 21, 2019, 12:02 am
#148
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At least size restrictions I can measure and take obvious steps to comply. Also, as an American, there really isn't any normal reason to buy super-lightweight luggage because we don't weigh stuff. So I have the wrong equipment for a weigh-in world.
Apr 21, 2019, 2:37 am
#149
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Bag weighing is truly evil -- who has a luggage scale? I just spent 20 minutes today weighing luggage on a bathroom scale in my hotel room trying to even stuff out. And, in the end, bathroom scales aren't so accurate on luggage. At least size restrictions I can measure and take obvious steps to comply. Also, as an American, there really isn't any normal reason to buy super-lightweight luggage because we don't weigh stuff. So I have the wrong equipment for a weigh-in world.
At least size restrictions I can measure and take obvious steps to comply. Also, as an American, there really isn't any normal reason to buy super-lightweight luggage because we don't weigh stuff. So I have the wrong equipment for a weigh-in world.SAS does the linear sizer as well as the weighing scale thing when they try to hit me for cabin baggage at LHR. Elsewhere they seem to do the weight thing. I’ve had other airlines do the bag weight thing at US airports but at least the US airlines usually seem to disregard cabin baggage weight as long as the linear sizer is large enough for the cabin baggage item.
Having had cabin baggage fall upon me from overhead bins, I would say density matters at least then.
Last edited by GUWonder; Apr 21, 2019 at 4:34 am
Apr 21, 2019, 2:38 am
#150
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Malaga, Spain
Posts: 1,077
Bag weighing is truly evil -- who has a luggage scale? I just spent 20 minutes today weighing luggage on a bathroom scale in my hotel room trying to even stuff out. And, in the end, bathroom scales aren't so accurate on luggage. At least size restrictions I can measure and take obvious steps to comply. Also, as an American, there really isn't any normal reason to buy super-lightweight luggage because we don't weigh stuff. So I have the wrong equipment for a weigh-in world.
At least size restrictions I can measure and take obvious steps to comply. Also, as an American, there really isn't any normal reason to buy super-lightweight luggage because we don't weigh stuff. So I have the wrong equipment for a weigh-in world.