Which Broker is Best?? Private Jet Charter

Old May 21, 18, 8:19 pm
  #16  
 
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Originally Posted by JTEF1 View Post


He could not be making much on every flight. However, he does all the shopping for you and most likely has good relationships with multiple operators. If youíre satisfied with the aircraft you get, I pesonally wouldnít wonder too much about how much you could save. A good broker will do the bargaining for you. This will save time and effort for other things going on in life.
This is not always the case, brokers mark up 10-20% of the flight cost and will push operators to sell the trip for the lowest possible. Yes they do the shopping around, but nothing the average person couldn't do themselves.
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Old May 23, 18, 12:57 pm
  #17  
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Originally Posted by heraflight View Post
This is not always the case, brokers mark up 10-20% of the flight cost and will push operators to sell the trip for the lowest possible. Yes they do the shopping around, but nothing the average person couldn't do themselves.
I couldn't disagree with you more.

I personally take the time to research all private flight options that are available, but most of the people I know who fly privately (even regularly) wouldn't know where to start. That's why people fall for overpriced gimmicks for lower quality planes and end up paying more than they should.

What percentage of your company's clientele is B2B with brokers and operators vs. the end user? I try to pay attention but had to google your name to find you as I never heard of Heraflight.

It's impossible for the average, uninterested flyer to keep up with all of these new companies popping up.
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Old May 24, 18, 2:09 pm
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This article from Forbes talks about how to find a broker and what to ask. At the end it suggests referrals from friends are best and that you should interview brokers the same way you interview a financial advisor. It also says it's not the company, it is really the individual broker that matters. There is a long, long list of questions to ask about the actual operator. I suppose some of the questions can be skipped although others seem important, like "What happens if there is a mechanical in the middle of a trip?"

https://www.forbes.com/sites/douggol.../#1d8ce9d718d7

I would be interested to hear from Why Private or others here who charter regularly - What questions do they ask about the actual operator of the flights? Do they ask about how much experience the pilot has or the safety record of the operator?
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Old May 29, 18, 9:03 am
  #19  
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Originally Posted by Nicoolio View Post
This article from Forbes talks about how to find a broker and what to ask. At the end it suggests referrals from friends are best and that you should interview brokers the same way you interview a financial advisor. It also says it's not the company, it is really the individual broker that matters. There is a long, long list of questions to ask about the actual operator. I suppose some of the questions can be skipped although others seem important, like "What happens if there is a mechanical in the middle of a trip?"

https://www.forbes.com/sites/douggol.../#1d8ce9d718d7

I would be interested to hear from Why Private or others here who charter regularly - What questions do they ask about the actual operator of the flights? Do they ask about how much experience the pilot has or the safety record of the operator?

Often times, I don't really have the time to dig deep for info on the aircraft I'm going to fly on... I'll need a flight the next day or immediately when I'm contacting jetmembership or my brokers for flight quotes putting myself in a time crunch.

Generally speaking, I rely on the safety ratings of different operators... Gold, Platinum etc. that are audited by Wyvern or argus. This allows me to have a general understanding of the quality of the operator without having to dig too deep.

I'll pay a little premium for platinum over gold, but usually find out it's not worth it.

A good list of simple questions to ask a broker no matter the amount of time you have before needing to make a decision are:
1. Year of Manufacture
2. Year of Refurb/Renovation of the airplane
3. Safety Rating
4. ACTUAL PHOTOS - don't let a broker trick you with general stock photos which aren't the airplane you're flying on. This happened to me in the past but i've wised up and now use flyvictor.com or jetmembership.com to get the actual photos and operator details, even if i'm going to book my trip with a broker rather than those "full disclosure" platforms.

I think anyone selling a charter flight should be able to provide you with these basics even if they have a little commission on the trip. If they refuse to, then you shouldn't work with them.
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Old Aug 16, 18, 4:50 pm
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Jetmemberships.com

[Removed by moderator per Rule 12.] Your reccomending a company that has no one listed who works there. That’s the mark of an awesome company. Give me $250 and you will be introduced to all the operators. Do you not know that there’s already companies hat do this. Like aircharterguide. They love been in business for 20 years. The reason people use brokers and buy actual memberships or cards is they have different requirement than you. They don’t want to deal with the ........ that collecting options and finding out how many hours a crew has or insurance limits. I could reccomend good companies but I just do t think that’s what this is about. No one is asking hey. Where can I spend $250 a month and go direct to operators. Awesome name for a website. Cause this is a real membership.

Last edited by l etoile; Aug 16, 18 at 4:58 pm Reason: Rule 12
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Old Aug 17, 18, 11:29 am
  #21  
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Originally Posted by Highflyer909090 View Post
[Removed by moderator per Rule 12.] Your reccomending a company that has no one listed who works there. That’s the mark of an awesome company. Give me $250 and you will be introduced to all the operators. Do you not know that there’s already companies hat do this. Like aircharterguide. They love been in business for 20 years. The reason people use brokers and buy actual memberships or cards is they have different requirement than you. They don’t want to deal with the ........ that collecting options and finding out how many hours a crew has or insurance limits. I could reccomend good companies but I just do t think that’s what this is about. No one is asking hey. Where can I spend $250 a month and go direct to operators. Awesome name for a website. Cause this is a real membership.
Sorry, I had a tough time reading through your post. I agree others may have different requirements or levels of expertise than myself. I'm not saying this product is for everyone, just saying it works great for me.

[moderator edit of commercial content]

A few questions for you Highflyer909090:

What charter company do you use?

Do you browse Air Charter Guide every time you are looking for a trip?

What brokers do you recommend?

Last edited by NewbieRunner; Aug 25, 18 at 7:09 pm
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Old Aug 21, 18, 11:58 pm
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Originally Posted by WhyPrivate View Post
Sorry, I had a tough time reading through your post. I agree others may have different requirements or levels of expertise than myself. I'm not saying this product is for everyone, just saying it works great for me.

[moderator edit of commercial content]

A few questions for you Highflyer909090:

What charter company do you use?

Do you browse Air Charter Guide every time you are looking for a trip?

What brokers do you recommend?

Why Private...

No need to say sorry. I ramble and don’t spell that well and these are just my opinions. I am lucky that I’ve been able to fly privately with my family since I was a kid. I used to make it a game when I was younger to get 5-10 companies working on our trips. I used to get the information from aircharterguide. I don’t really use it anymore just because life is just busier now. . (You can do the same thing with them that the jet membership places does. You just put in a trip and it spits out ops. Or you can just search different places. Maybe it’s not as good as I haven’t really looked on a while. And no I didn’t sign up. Again I ask myself. Can this model work. You pay $250 and book...say 25 trips. Or maybe they have a back end deal...that every request made through their software gets $xxx added on top. But they are saying they are transparent so I assume that’s not happening. I would have ask them to sign something saying they won’t make $ on the back end. Maybe they sell Marketing on their software or charge the ops to be on their software. But then again both of those cost the op $ so somewhere somehow the op will add it in to the cost. They can’t pay the bills with that $250 and nothing else. Unless they have hundreds of clients and they don’t as I’ve asked a few people and no one has heard of them. Even aircharterguide is like a book company or something like that. I’ve spoken to the people over there. No one is printing $.

Same thing with jetsmarter. Free endless flights with small initial upfront cost. For me this one is simple. I don’t want to share my wife, cars, homes or private jet. What if I have to use the bathroom. Literally I think of that. I’d just rather be on a much larger jet with people I don’t know going through the same security they went through.

For brokers...Everyone is really calling the same ops. I am
positive no company has the magic bag of great aircraft or ops. If you call a bunch of brokers I’ve seen the op usually just holds tight on price and now your negotiating with a broker that has 10-15% (usually). Your not going to go from $20,000 to $15,000. You may go from $20k to $19k.

I’ve used both operators and a lot of brokers. Sentient and Magellan (Brokers) now...but there’s literally a list of 15 if you really want to know and theres usually a mechanical or pulled jet that happens and it doesn’t end well. It usually ends with that can happen in this industry and here’s the next best option. That’s not what I want to hear. What I want to hear is hey there was an issue and we have another aircraft on its way to you. Go get something to eat or go back home and I will let you know when the jet is 15 minutes away.

Operators Meridian, XO and EJM, TMC, Red Wing to name a few. But they aren’t that good at service. Funny thing I did with an op that jetsmarter did a deal with for empty legs or something. Every time I would call and want to book their aircraft I would say. Take 10% off because your selling the front end, back end or both to jetsmarter. I don’t want to pay for them to use whatever Repo I’m creating to be on that day. They always came down.

Brokers seem to put more effort into the whole experience. I even tell them to check on...XXX company if I like a specific jet (I’ve seen that itself check brokers to be fair on price). And I’m not stupid I don’t just go in blind...I check on whoever I work with to make sure especially when the price seems high.

Here is what anyone should do if they are considering flying with x company. Show up to their office unannounced. There are really only 10-15 real brokerages. I’m talking about companies that actually have staff. With so many companies saying the same thing...if you just show up wherever their “office” is you see what kind of company they are running and the actual ownership and operation. Now if the office is in Kansas I wouldn’t conatct them because I’m in northeast. I would say there’s good people in Nortgeast..(where I am). For me it’s about the issues that happen...granted not that often but when a jet breaks or an owner pulls something I’ve been .... out of luck on a few occasions with kids or worse family members and that is the worst. These issues were with mainly small operators and small brokers. I don’t really like to pay more when this happens and I’ve seen a good relationship make that happen. I believe if you make a relationship with 1-2 companies (depending on how much you fly) the benefits you get with a broker outweigh the markup. Now if the broker is making 30-40% which I’ve seen then your better with a card or program or going direct to an op. If you do a lot of one ways I think a broker is better. Round trips I would say the operators are going to be better.

Ive booked empty legs with brokers and ops and they are great until something happens and that’s the day that sucks the most. Because now your paying a good chunk more and or trying to get commercial...and for me I hate that. I have a specific price in my head and when it goes up that bothers me. Or when I have to get in a car go to another airport and get on a commercial flight that stinks.

The Brokerage side needs to be regulated and the majority of companies dissolved as there are way too many brokers. I didn’t mean to insult the jetmembersip thing just when you go on someone’s website and no one is listed as owner or any information I know it’s not a real company since I’ve literally shown up to these places and seen the shared “Regis office” or whatever they call it. Everyone says the same thing. Highest safety ARGUS, Wyvern, great customer service, customer comes first attitude. ARGUS and Wyvern aren’t really keeping anyone safe. I believe it’s the crew. That’s the information I ask for. How much time do you have in this jet. I don’t even really care about the other numbers. Not that I want someone with 500 total hours but the time in that aircraft and being a captain in that aircraft is important to me. Typically I see 2500-3000 total in pilots that have good flight time in a soecific aircrxft. I love when companies print Aircrafts or Fleets. Or when a broker says our fleet and then at the bottom they have the we don’t operate disclosure...or even worse no disclosure. That shows me they are new to the industry and don’t even know someone things. Like on the membership company your talking about. Go to whatever company website and look at “about us”. If there no names, pictures or information on who actually owns and or runs the company the chances are it’s a very small operation. And they don’t do whatever they are telling you they do...in my experience.

for instance I looked up this company your talking about. every red flag is there. They share an office with another company...not just any other company another broker. luxury aircraft solutions. Who? They stole a picture from Taylor swift wearing an ugly sweater and said giving thumbs up to their company. I just know from my experience these guys are clowns. Again...my opinion but sharing an office in Long Island with a broker no one has ever heard of just makes me know whatever they are doing isn’t for me.

There’s ...... companies both broker and operator. Take XO. Was a good operator...now is a broker???? Now they tell me they can get me a 400XP. I told them I am good. Why would I want XO calling around for me? That makes no sense to me. Every time I chose to go to an operator direct it was because I wanted to be on their aircraft. That made me feel safe. Now all it tell me is they don’t pay 100% attention to their aircraft, safety of their aircraft and are putting effort into finding me a light jet. What about making sure the aircraft doesn’t break? Or when I was on them last making sure the seats didn’t look like tan mom. I don’t ask for their aircraft anymore so they might have really nice jets now I don’t know. Their price just went up too much for a Jet that’s as big as an 800xp and I don’t do a lot of 6 hour flights cross country.

Im a relationship person. I know not everyone is like me and some people just want to book on a app. But when something bad is happening I truly believe if you have a good relationship with a larger broker they will help you. Even steer you away from the bad operators. But I know that app is not going to help me.

Please don’t take this the wrong way but I don’t want to reccomend any particular companies. I’ve told you who I use and they do a good job. Sentient seems to get better deals on shorter flights like an hour (and sometimes I get flight options...somehow) and Magellan seems to do better on longer flights. I think you said you had a bad experience with Magellan from an event. I don’t go to events that much so I avoide the drunk guys. You seem to have a good feel for the companies though.

I don’t know the amount of listings I have has anything to do with anything but since you mentioned it. I just came across this website a few weeks ago and I will post a lot more if it helps anyone.

Last edited by NewbieRunner; Aug 25, 18 at 7:12 pm
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Old Aug 22, 18, 9:05 am
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Originally Posted by Highflyer909090 View Post


Thereís ...... companies both broker and operator. Take XO. Was a good operator...now is a broker???? Now they tell me they can get me a 400XP. I told them I am good. Why would I want XO calling around for me? That makes no sense to me. Every time I chose to go to an operator direct it was because I wanted to be on their aircraft. That made me feel safe. Now all it tell me is they donít pay 100% attention to their aircraft, safety of their aircraft and are putting effort into finding me a light jet. What about making sure the aircraft doesnít break? Or when I was on them last making sure the seats didnít look like tan mom. I donít ask for their aircraft anymore so they might have really nice jets now I donít know. Their price just went up too much for a Jet thatís as big as an 800xp and I donít do a lot of 6 hour flights cross country.
XOJet and TMC are owned by the same company so that makes sense why they always quote 400XP and (well used to be) 800XP/850XP. I agree though 100% that whenever I get a quote from XO they always push the TMC fleet vs their own.
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Old Aug 22, 18, 10:46 am
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Originally Posted by msm2 View Post
XOJet and TMC are owned by the same company so that makes sense why they always quote 400XP and (well used to be) 800XP/850XP. I agree though 100% that whenever I get a quote from XO they always push the TMC fleet vs their own.
I have also noticed the last 2 times I flew with TMC they always having mechanical issues and take forever to recover the airplane. One of the pilots told me they are having internal issues and probably don't want this to affect XO, but I think it will over time.
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Old Aug 22, 18, 2:29 pm
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Originally Posted by BusinessFlyer45 View Post
I have also noticed the last 2 times I flew with TMC they always having mechanical issues and take forever to recover the airplane. One of the pilots told me they are having internal issues and probably don't want this to affect XO, but I think it will over time.
Makes sense to why they grounded the entire 800XP fleet. I have had some great flights with TMC but the past 6 months has gone down hill so not surprised to hear they are having some internal issues.
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Old Aug 23, 18, 1:30 pm
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[Quote from since-deleted post]

I understand but Black jet beat everyone’s pricing and so did Blue Star. They were the best even Derek jeter and all the famous people said they were the best. The problem is it does not last. The race to the bottom will always fail unless you have endless funding and dumb investors. To my previous points. They share an office in NY with a broker or are a broker with another name. When people take very popular celebrities and make it look like that they are flying with them...it’s just weird. Why would they do that? As in they don’t have counsel or a marketing department because no one would allow that. Taylor Swift has good lawyers I’m sure and they could make this company pretty nervous. This took me 5 minutes to find out. I asked a few friends and no one knows who they are. Your point is they introduce you to operators is valid. It’s just how many companies can you keep track of. Do they give you all the crew times? Are you insured through them? Maybe the answer is yes to all but I just don’t want to do all that. I would rather say get me the best 2 options and I will decide what I book because I know what the standards are and not just ARGUS or Wyvern. Like I said before everyone uses these companies. And maybe you just want to be more involved. That’s ok. I just choose to concentrate on my business and I know I can make more here then I can save there. After flying with enough operators direct I don’t think that is the best decision for me and my family. I believe they should concentrate all their resources to making sure everything is the safest it can be. And the broker makes the service side.

Last edited by NewbieRunner; Aug 26, 18 at 6:43 pm
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Old Aug 23, 18, 2:49 pm
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I don't know who blackjet or bluestar is, but I hate to tell you, I did my research cause you brought up valid points and I thank you for that. I took your advice, I went to their offices they have a team of people and a beautiful new offices. They also made the INC 5000 list of new and up coming businesses for growth showed me their hanger a took me around the FBO they are located in. I think you should try their product before knocking it as their membership seems to be growing. They are definitely reputable...it seems like you are a competitor to them the way your talking, at least that's the way I feel. You know too much about to many companies not to be a competitor...
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Old Aug 23, 18, 2:58 pm
  #28  
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Our company sold in the beginning of the summer. I have been flying with XOJET since we got rid of our company AC as part of the deal and they have been fine.

Who can recommend a good broker that isn't going to play games?
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Old Aug 23, 18, 3:54 pm
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Originally Posted by SiliconDevelopment View Post
Our company sold in the beginning of the summer. I have been flying with XOJET since we got rid of our company AC as part of the deal and they have been fine.

Who can recommend a good broker that isn't going to play games?
XOJET also has a charter broker division - they source aircraft out of a fleet of 'preferred operators' so perhaps/hopefully a high standard.
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Old Aug 23, 18, 8:20 pm
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Originally Posted by Nicoolio View Post
XOJET also has a charter broker division - they source aircraft out of a fleet of 'preferred operators' so perhaps/hopefully a high standard.
The problem is XO is part of TMC now and TMC is a horse with three legs and no eyes. XO still has 4 legs but no eyes...stay away.
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