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-   -   Which Broker is Best?? Private Jet Charter (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/other-air-travel-including-private-non-airline-aviation/1834590-broker-best-private-jet-charter.html)

WhyPrivate Apr 4, 17 5:16 pm

Which Broker is Best?? Private Jet Charter
 
I have been flying private in the US (based in New York) for many years now. I worked with a local operator out of FRG up until 2015 when ownership changed hands and their quality began to diminish significantly. Was hoping to ask the community who they recommend broker-wise as I see the benefits of not sticking to one particular fleet.

I am happy to answer questions to anyone curious about the world of private flight as well.

Kagehitokiri Apr 4, 17 10:58 pm

as well as operators ?

dont brokers offer different prices for same flights ?

WhyPrivate Apr 5, 17 3:09 pm

In my experience, operators try their best to sell their "fleet" . Which either consists of aircraft they own, or manage for owners. Operators will also have their salespeople involved in "brokering" but the best values, most knowledgeable, and easiest to deal with reps have always been good brokers of which I'm finding there are only a few. (along with a ton of duds).

I'm sure operators do this as well.

As far as different prices go.. my opinion is a chartered trip is always a one-off and any company guaranteeing a price for a routing is making money that should remain in my pocket. At least until the next trip..

ray1022 Apr 5, 17 3:42 pm

Hope someone can recommend a good broker for you (and one that is not upcharging quite a bit).

Thought it may be useful to list some of the more popular brokers in the tri-state area. Some are more card operators, but also do charter. Might be helpful for others to shine light on their experience with any of the below, add to the list, etc.

Blue Star Jets
Talon Air
Apollo Jets
Skyjet
Nicholas Air
XO Jet
Tradewind - has some good shuttles in the northeast
FlexJet
Sentient Jet
Vista Jet
Magellan

ray1022 Apr 5, 17 3:56 pm

Unlike operators, charter brokers were historically not regulated. But believe that changed. It seems some brokers do choose to get audited by a third party, Wyvern Authorized Brokers or the Certified Charter Broker program.

Below are 2 resources for these charter brokers:

http://cheq.argus.aero/BrokerRegistry/BrokerRegistry

https://www.wyvernltd.com/solutions-wyvern-broker-directory\

WhyPrivate Apr 5, 17 4:22 pm

I've worked with quite a few of those listed..Would love to hear from others about their experiences as well as sharing mine. With regard to your list, I will list my input (some 1st hand, some though research, some through hearsay).

Blue Star Jets
I believe BlueStar is out of business now
http://pagesix.com/2016/04/14/privat...fter-16-years/

Talon Air
good local operator, with nice airplanes, but $$$$

Apollo Jets
Part of the 8760 partnership with wheels up. Mixed bag, some good brokers, some very mediocre. Pricing also all over the place.

Skyjet
Haven't used them, but believe they've been around since the mid 90s? Innovator in the industry but

Nicholas Air
Do Peyton and Eli Manning own them or something? Another membership program that has nice planes, but high pricing.

XO Jet
Started off great with 19k coast to coast on the Citation X. Which have gone up to almost 30k last time I checked... Planes used quite a bit but nice.. Still not the best value.

Tradewind -
Good for the CJ3 and Pilatus short hops.

FlexJet
Not a member, but see on the ramp all of the time. Planes look new, and crews professional. Phenom 300 is popular if i recall correctly.

Sentient Jet
Fly by the hour program. I get 1,000,000 emails from them but the rates don't make sense.

Vista Jet
Flew on a Global with them to Europe this summer. (i didn't pay) and was blown away by the quality of service. Plane was brand new.

Magellan
Couple years ago went to a grand opening at a car dealership and was harassed by a drunk 20 something salesman when I let it slip I had a florida trip I was shopping for.

Kagehitokiri Apr 5, 17 5:15 pm

brokers will vary in terms of added cost right? for charters, not empty legs

if some brokers only use best operators, certainly valuable when trustworthy

WhyPrivate Jul 12, 17 12:28 pm


Originally Posted by Kagehitokiri (Post 28134892)
brokers will vary in terms of added cost right? for charters, not empty legs

if some brokers only use best operators, certainly valuable when trustworthy

Yes, brokers prices tend to vary significantly which is why I recommend finding one who you can trust and is responsive and stands behind the airplane they represent. Often times I've found the broker will find options that I could never find on my own that end up being a lot less $ than local operators.

PJ Paul Apr 18, 18 9:53 am

Private Jet Charter Broker
 

Originally Posted by Jack David Institute (Post 29611041)
Thank you for the message, I will keep it noted. Although I prefer to speak on the forum rather than private message.

[Moderator edit of commercial information]
To answer your question on broker commission, the answer is "it depends." That is a phrase I commonly used in my previous career as a lawyer, but here is the gist of how it works. Anytime a client comes to us with a trip request, [company name removed by mod] will reach out to anywhere from 5 to 10 aircraft operators to get pricing. We then use that information to (1) identify the best price and (2) identify the best plane for the trip. We then do everything we can to make it so that we can get the best plane for you at the best price by leveraging the price down on the best plane. We call this creating a "micro market" for each individual trip, which stimulates price competition among the aircraft operators.

I'd say a "standard" broker markup is in the 10% range, with the standard deviation being about 5% either way. Further, [company name removed by mod] quote is an "All In" quote, meaning in includes everything from flight time to fuel, pilot expenses, landing fees, taxes and fees, etc. The only additional charges we ever pass along are (1) custom catering orders, (2) ground transportation we are asked to arrange and (3) de-icing costs for cold weather climates. We pass all of these charges along at cost. De-icing costs are usually the biggest issue, since it can be from $800 to de-ice a light jet to $2,000 to de-ice a heavy cabin jet (like a Gulfstream G-IV). We try to minimize ever having to pass that along and eat the cost when we can, however, since we tend to operate on a fairly tight margin, sometimes we have to pass off the cost so we don't lose money on the trip. Of the 300 or so flights we charter per year, we've only had to pass off 3 or 4 de-ice bills.
[Moderator edit of commercial information]

JTEF1 Apr 20, 18 11:55 am


Originally Posted by Jack David Institute (Post 29656389)
Thank you for the insight. When I first began to charter I would shop around with several brokers to try and obtain the best price. It was a surprise to me at first just how many different prices there were for the same aircraft.

I have now become comfortable with a broker I trust with all my charter flights, and I don’t shop around anymore. A part of me still wonders though just how much commission he is adding on the trips, and how much I would save if I was able to receive the quotes at NET price.

He could not be making much on every flight. However, he does all the shopping for you and most likely has good relationships with multiple operators. If you’re satisfied with the aircraft you get, I pesonally wouldn’t wonder too much about how much you could save. A good broker will do the bargaining for you. This will save time and effort for other things going on in life.

WhyPrivate Apr 20, 18 4:08 pm


Originally Posted by JTEF1 (Post 29664568)


He could not be making much on every flight. However, he does all the shopping for you and most likely has good relationships with multiple operators. If you’re satisfied with the aircraft you get, I pesonally wouldn’t wonder too much about how much you could save. A good broker will do the bargaining for you. This will save time and effort for other things going on in life.

I always saw great value in a brokers ability to find me a hidden gem that I was otherwise unable to do, especially on a one way flight. I worked with a local company, but when they didn't have a jet available the pricing either skyrocketed or I was forced to pay the same as I usually would for an inferior jet so I decided to go with brokers.

Heck, I even started this thread in hopes of finding a better broker.

Unfortunately, the greed that brokers have (generally speaking and not to offend anyone here) has lead me and many others to jump around from company to company to company in hopes of finding one who will do an honest deal.
Sometimes I win, sometimes I got screwed and don't realize until it's too late.

[moderator edit of commercial information]

WhyPrivate Apr 25, 18 3:15 pm

Another member of the forum told me that operators sometimes increase the price of trips if more than one broker is asking them for a quote.

Do any of you know any truth to this? Or is it a way for a broker to scare you into not shopping around?

rearview Apr 27, 18 11:32 am

I know nothing about jetmembership.com, but just a heads up - even when you're getting a quote 'direct from the operator', there's often a commission baked into your 'wholesale price' that gets paid back to the broker/middleman. Not to say you're getting ripped off, just something to be aware of. There's no free lunch...

Ocn Vw 1K May 7, 18 1:14 pm

Moderator note.
 
The OP invited members of FlyerTalk to make recommendations as to brokers in the private jet charter field. Since then, some brokers or operators have joined apparently for the sole or primary purpose of promoting their commercial business. This practice runs afoul of a basic Rule of service of FlyerTalk (Rule 10) which bars commercial posts, except for very limited instances not applicable here. (All Rules are available for view under the Help menu near the top of each site page.) Going forward, let's honor the non-commercial terms of FlyerTalk's discussion forums and avoid commercial business touting their respective enterprises. Thanks, Ocn Vw 1K, Senior Moderator.

heraflight May 21, 18 8:16 pm


Originally Posted by WhyPrivate (Post 29683336)
Another member of the forum told me that operators sometimes increase the price of trips if more than one broker is asking them for a quote.

Do any of you know any truth to this? Or is it a way for a broker to scare you into not shopping around?

Absolutely not true. There is multiple instances where we see different brokers shopping around for the same trips. Prices do not get inflated by the operator because of this.

Reference: I work for a Charter Operator


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