CXBA

Al-Baker is trying to pull a stunt that, if successful would have huge repercussions among the alliances, trying to convince EK to merge with QR. I don't know about the chances, but if it happens i guess OW will have a lot of traction in quite a lot of countries. Finger crossed...

themapelligroup

This would totally shake up the entire airline industry!
I'm not that sure EK wants to join an alliance: I do think they at least considered to join OW while they were in talks with QF for the JV.

FlyerTalker688786

EK have some sort of cooperation with JL and MH (at least used to, correct me if anyone knows more). Also they once owned part of UL. If the rumoured AA connection would happen soon, then EK would be connected to OW through JL, QF and AA, plus the ended relationship with UL and possible MH.

So I would say the chance is 30/70 with a big swing if things happen quickly.

Volvic

I miss the possible benefits of a BA - VY code-share. VY entry in OW is even more difficult for me to cope with.
Looking at Germany, Airberlin could have been an option to enter in a LH dominated market even if I doubt that AB is feeding BA with high revenue customers.

Looking at Spain, BA has already IB so no need to dilute once more the value of his upper product.

If you were a Biz or First class traveler, would you accept to be "feeded" to an OW hub via VY or even AB ? Or would you prefer to take an other route where you get a service level more "uniform" ? Not better but uniform.

FlyerTalker688786

You really need to fly IB on their short haul first then compare with VY.

To me, the current differences between IB short haul and VY short haul economy class are:
1>, You get lounge access when fly IB as oneworld elites
2>, You get a free piece of luggage when flying IB
3>, You get a free piece of luggage when flying IB
4>, You get a free piece of luggage when flying IB
5>, You get a free piece of luggage when flying IB

The point of AB or VY in oneworld is not to be the feeder. But to fill the holes in a global alliance map. There are areas one alliance can not cover with legacy carriers. Point to point or regional airlines are good at fill the holes and provide more business opportunities.

btw, IB is the worst airline in Europe in terms of short haul service, if you have not tried it yet.

teemuflyer

Since it was announced in Oct 2012, the indication was that it would be 12-18 months out to joining. Does anyone have any insight to how it's progressing?

themapelligroup

They are going to respect the deadline of October 2013 according to Qatar's CEO:
http://www.ausbt.com.au/qatar-to-joi...tas-in-october

Volvic

I did a lot.

True, you just get a seat and a 23 kg bag allowance even if KLM is trying hard to win this title

Please let me be more extreme.

Any legacy airlines wishes to get more high revenue generating passengers.

Does a usual customer of Emirates Biz or First class benefit from Emirates FFP redemption link with Easyjet ? If that customer has the budget to fly Emirates long haul in Biz or First for a point to point in Europe, I'm sure this person will not get Easyjet but a full service carrier, flying in the front cabin.

If BAEC Gold has to choose a carrier for MIL-BCN and the options are AZ Biz class or Vueling Excellence, the choice will be ... ?

Am I in this situation to fly Biz and First ? No.
Am I happy to get lounge access flying "cattle class" on e.g. IB ? Yes. ^
Do I redeem avios/miles on short haul routes in economy class ? No way.

Does a usual customer of BA economy class benefit from Vueling in OW ?
Yes, for example luggage and lounge access.
Does BA benefit providing Avios/TP to a usual low revenue customer of Vueling in OW ?
I'd guess no. BA should have to somehow pay for the previous benefits (e.g. Vueling will ask BA to pay for the lost bag fees) and dilute its resources.
How many lounges does Vueling in OW add to the overall figure ? Null ?

Extreme question:
What's about Ryanair in OW just to cover the gaps on the Europe map ?

themapelligroup

My computer needs a strong antivirus now

FlyerTalker688786

Yes but that is a 'wish'.

Yes. For all I know, the redemption on Easyjet from Emirates is very popular with Emirates flyer. A passenger fly Biz/First do not fly Biz/First 100% of the time. Occasionally they have to settle for Economy or even LCC. There are many passengers who fly Biz/First for business may have to fly LCC if LCC is the only choice on particular route. And they are many passengers who fly long haul Biz/First for business have company restrictions that for flight under certain hours (typical 4 hours) that they HAVE to fly the cheapest carrier or economy class. There are also a large number of long haul Biz/First passengers flying on leisure will tolerate 2 hours flight in economy class seats as long as the price is right and time is right.

You will be surprised that many will choose Vueling. What you read about mileage mad only happen to FFP. There are many people who does not care which airline they fly as long as the flight meet their expectations.

BA already pay Monarch, which is a low cost charter airlines, to fly their passengers to places like Tenerife, Malaga, Malta etc. thought its Avios.com scheme. And if you book through Avios.com you do not need pay extra for one piece of luggage. BA pays for the first bag.

And I am sure as a 'usual' passenger flying BA would benefit from flying Vueling if BA could not take them there, and if the price is right. In turn BA could get more passengers from where Vueling flying from. They may consider to choose BA for next long Haul carrier as many of them may have start to use Vueling points to accumulate free flight already.

And as a matter of fact, what you call 'low revenue' on Vueling, is actually the most profitable business in IAG group. There is nothing low revenue about Vueling, many BA passengers pay far less ticket price to fly BA (i.e. LGW-AMS at £39 one way). And surprisingly, transit passenger count for 11% of total passengers Vueling have in Barcelona. Vueling is known as Hybrid carrier, rather than the same of Ryan air alike. They are totally different things.

themapelligroup

Do you think we will see something interesting at IATA AGM?
They announced new members in the last two, but I don't think we'll have another member announced. Maybe better informations about the joining process of members elect

hmv

I think Oneworld should consider finding an African member, because we lack coverage in Africa.

There are 3 options which should be considered:
-Royal Air Maroc, no A+ service level and no advantage of a Casablanca hub vs MAD, but already existing routes into Africa.
-Expansion of Iberia into west-africa (http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?R=3300nm%40MAD), use Vueling for intra-Europe and use free A320/A321 with a widebody C/Y product. QR expands east-Africa.
-Start own carrier in Africa, but very risky given political barriers and safety issues.

themapelligroup

My utopic view is:
Purchase of AZ by IAG and expansion into Africa and the Middle East

PotNoodle

In regards to Africa, I see no or little low hanging fruit currently.

It has been rumoured that Air Algerie, Royal Air Maroc and Tunisair want to join SkyTeam, but I don't see any of them ready for an alliance and surely they wouldn't join the same alliance as each other?

Looks like IAG, QR and Comair will have to provide current coverage, there is also an article on CAPA about RJ wanting to increase its African presence.

Africa is in the very early stages of development and growth is very early, who knows in 10 years time the largest airlines on the African continent may not even exist today.

Frotunatley for Oneworld most of the coverage deficits are in regions that are still in their infancy and where new carriers are popping up regularly and there is still time to find a suitable candidate.

Willie Walsh has confirmed Vueling will be independent within IAG and will be unaligned, but VY do have codeshare relations with airlines, such as Iberia and they do carry connecting traffic through BCN.

Vueling serve La Coruna, Bilbao, Mallorca and Florence from LHR and BA serve none of those destinations. If BA puts their code on these flights it can slightly improve the LHR network and passengers can connect onto BA's UK and long-haul network. BA have a very similar agreement with Aer Lingus (another quasi-LCC) where they feed DUB, BHD, ORK and SNN to LHR. SNN and ORK are not served directly by BA and only through this codeshare.

I am also sure there are destinations that VY serve and IB do not. I will check later.

Codesharing with VY offers customers another choice, if it dilutes IB feed then it isn't the end of the world as VY is also owned by IAG.

I believe VY also offer some leisure flights in the UK, and it wouldn't hurt picking up a few BA frequent fliers from the regions. It has also been suggested that Vueling replace BA's ops at LGW which are currently struggling. They may also want to start UK regional bases, BHX is a good opportunity with very few EZY flights in the Midlands and bmibaby gone, leaving Ryanair and a few others.

There is an awful lot VY offers to BA, and I don't see the harm in codesharing with Oneworld members even if they are not officially a member.

I agree.

It is interesting to see how Low Cost carriers are diversifying from the standard model previously used, with hybrid style carriers like JetBlue, Vueling, WestJet and increasingly easyJet all becoming higher-end carriers and even better than many legacy carriers. It is only a matter of years until an Alliance is on the cards.

Kachjc

http://www.business-standard.com/art...0700233_1.html

Hopefully this develops and Indigo joins Oneworld- they are nearly carrying 1 in 3 Indian passengers so they will be a good member to add