Why I hate e-tickets (OWE change problem)
Aug 11, 2008 | 10:33 pm
#1
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Why I hate e-tickets (OWE change problem)
Well, in the past, all my OWE tickets were issued on paper tickets and it was only until recently that I had my first one issued on e-ticket.. And boy, what a nightmare it has been so far to get a date/flight change for a single segment... Not sure if it has been mentioned here before, but i did a quick search and didn't find anything...
Basically I have a OWE issued by CX, and I need to get a segment SFO-LAX moved forward by one day and to an daytime flight instead of afternoon flight. Before with paper tickets, all I had to do was get my agent change and input my paper ticket number into the record.. and it was all done. Now, with e-tickets, I've been told that the ticket has to be reissued since AA would not be able to capture the e-ticket number (because it is on CX stock), unless I reissue the ticket. Which means I have to pay whatever the fuel surchage difference is, any fare changes, as well as the reissue fee...
Is this really the case? Or is the agent giving me a runaround?
Basically I have a OWE issued by CX, and I need to get a segment SFO-LAX moved forward by one day and to an daytime flight instead of afternoon flight. Before with paper tickets, all I had to do was get my agent change and input my paper ticket number into the record.. and it was all done. Now, with e-tickets, I've been told that the ticket has to be reissued since AA would not be able to capture the e-ticket number (because it is on CX stock), unless I reissue the ticket. Which means I have to pay whatever the fuel surchage difference is, any fare changes, as well as the reissue fee...
Is this really the case? Or is the agent giving me a runaround?
Aug 11, 2008 | 10:37 pm
#2
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: SYD
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Might be easier talking to the carrier that originally issued the ticket, ie CX?
Having said that I noticed quite a few inexperienced newcomers at the AA ATW desk in the last few months, so I'd suggest calling back for another agent.
Having said that I noticed quite a few inexperienced newcomers at the AA ATW desk in the last few months, so I'd suggest calling back for another agent.
Aug 11, 2008 | 10:44 pm
#3
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Actually this is what CX ticketing office told me... and I actually forgot to mention.. on top of all those fees, since the ticket was originally purchased through a local TA in HKG, CX says that I have to get it reissued through the TA, and the TA charges a handling fee as well.. haha... all these fees are driving me crazy.. 
Aug 11, 2008 | 10:54 pm
#4
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Originally Posted by tfung
... Now, with e-tickets, I've been told that the ticket has to be reissued since AA would not be able to capture the e-ticket number (because it is on CX stock), unless I reissue the ticket. ... Is this really the case? Or is the agent giving me a runaround?
... or it was easy the times I needed to do this with a CX issued paper ticket.
Aug 11, 2008 | 10:57 pm
#5
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You're being given the runaround.
The terms of the ticket (contract) as bought are that the ticket is valid on any date/time on the route purchased (subject to using the coupons in order and so on). The technical limitations of the airlines' systems (real or imagined) are not your problem. You have a contract which the airline needs to honour.
The ticket does not need reissuing. I would simply get the reservation changed and then call American to make sure that they can see the ticket number in the changed reservation. You should get the AA PNR from CX or your TA to facilitate this.
CX's rules as published to travel agents may be downloaded here (.xls format). They state explicitly:
The terms of the ticket (contract) as bought are that the ticket is valid on any date/time on the route purchased (subject to using the coupons in order and so on). The technical limitations of the airlines' systems (real or imagined) are not your problem. You have a contract which the airline needs to honour.
The ticket does not need reissuing. I would simply get the reservation changed and then call American to make sure that they can see the ticket number in the changed reservation. You should get the AA PNR from CX or your TA to facilitate this.
CX's rules as published to travel agents may be downloaded here (.xls format). They state explicitly:
Rebooking
Before departure
Permitted without charge, the fares and charges shall be calculated
in accordance with the fares and conditions in effect on the date
on which the ticket is issued.
After departure
Permitted without charge
Before departure
Permitted without charge, the fares and charges shall be calculated
in accordance with the fares and conditions in effect on the date
on which the ticket is issued.
After departure
Permitted without charge
Aug 11, 2008 | 10:58 pm
#6
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It's as posted by christep. A couple of Q's:
Also, if the answer to 1 is no, then only your TA can change it - for which they may charge a "local service fee".
The answer to three has a bearing on the ease of such changes.
Here's the xONEx rules for Voluntary Changes:
(That caveat is the change is not to the first [international] segment. Some GDS's are unable to revalidate without re-issue with such a change.)
- Have you already commenced travel on this ticket?
- Where are you starting from?
- Is it Ticketed?
Also, if the answer to 1 is no, then only your TA can change it - for which they may charge a "local service fee".
The answer to three has a bearing on the ease of such changes.
Here's the xONEx rules for Voluntary Changes:
Originally Posted by 16. VOLUNTARY CHANGES/REROUTING/PENALTIES
Code:
(a) Rebooking/Rerouting
(1) Prior to departure
(a) Origin TC1
(1) Before ticket issuance - Permitted without penalty.
(2) After ticket issuance - Changes to the first international
flight and preceding flights are not permitted less than
seven days prior to the date of the first ticketed flight.
Date/time changes to other flights permitted at no charge.
Date/Time/oneworld Carrier changes are permitted without
reissue provided origin/destination/connecting points and
inventory remain the same.
Changes other than to Date/Time/oneworld carrier permitted
at a charge of USD125.00 per transaction.
(b) Origin TC2/3
Unlimited changes permitted without charge.
Date/Time/oneworld carrier changes are permitted without
reissue provided Origin/destination/connecting points and
inventory remain the same.
-------------
Local service fees may apply
(2) After Departure
(a) Date/Time changes permitted at no charge. Date/Time/oneworld carrier
changes are permitted without reissue provided origin/destination/connecting
points and inventory remain the same.
Routing changes other than to Date/Time/oneworld carrier permitted
at a charge of USD125.00 per transaction. If currency of ticket
origin is not shown convert the USD amount at the BSR.
(b) If the rerouting results in an increase to the number of continents
or extra flight segments previously charged, the ticket shall be
recalculated. Tickets may be reissued to a higher fare, eg. from A
–ONE3 type to A -ONE4 type fare and the increase in fare will be
collected. When flight segments are added above the free allowance,
those charges will be collected. When the rerouting results in a
reduction to the number of continents or extra flight segments previously
charged, no refund will apply.
-------------
Local service fees may apply
Last edited by serfty; Aug 12, 2008 at 12:19 am
Aug 11, 2008 | 11:15 pm
#7
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: SYD
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Actually this is what CX ticketing office told me... and I actually forgot to mention.. on top of all those fees, since the ticket was originally purchased through a local TA in HKG, CX says that I have to get it reissued through the TA, and the TA charges a handling fee as well.. haha... all these fees are driving me crazy..
If you've not commenced travel, then I think your TA has to perform the change. Otherwise CX ought to be able to do it. Politely insist on a second opinion or call back.
Aug 12, 2008 | 12:35 am
#8
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Here is the "Interline E-ticket Rebooking Matrix" as shown in CX's system. According to this matrix, if you have a CX e-tkt with an AA sector LAX-SFO, you will have to get it reissued (fourth line "IL to Interline", CX as VC) if you want to change the flight/date/time.
IL = Interline (or simply "other airline")
VC = Validating Carrier (carrier whose ticket stock the ticket is issued on)
REVALIDATE = To change the coupon on the e-ticket to match the new flight (just like those revalidation stickers they used to put on paper tickets).
SSR TKNE = No reissue needed, the new flight segment is linked to the original coupon (even if the data does not match) and can be accepted.
Note: When a reissue is done, both the SSR TKNE (linking of flight segment to etkt coupon) is also updated as are the ticket details (new ticket issued in exchange for old one).
IL = Interline (or simply "other airline")
VC = Validating Carrier (carrier whose ticket stock the ticket is issued on)
REVALIDATE = To change the coupon on the e-ticket to match the new flight (just like those revalidation stickers they used to put on paper tickets).
SSR TKNE = No reissue needed, the new flight segment is linked to the original coupon (even if the data does not match) and can be accepted.
Note: When a reissue is done, both the SSR TKNE (linking of flight segment to etkt coupon) is also updated as are the ticket details (new ticket issued in exchange for old one).
Code:
GI:IET/REBK MATRIX PH:
RESPONSIBLE OFFICE : HDQGBCX
LAST UPDATE : 22 OCT 2007
****************************************************************
-----------------------------------------------------------------
WHEN PAX APPROACHES
CX FOR REBOOKING VALIDATING CARRIER -VC
THE SECTORS-S
---------------------------------------------------------------¥
FROM: TO: CX ONEWORLD NON-ONEWORLD
----------------------------------------------------------------
-
CX CX REVALIDATE SSR TKNE SSR TKNE
-NOTE 1 -NOTE 3 -NOTE 3
-------------------------------------------------------
-
INTERLINE REISSUE REISSUE CONTACT VC OR ¥
-NOTE 2 ISSG AGT -NOTE 4
----------------------------------------------------------------
-
IL CX REVALIDATE SSR TKNE SSR TKNE
-NOTE 1 -NOTE 3 -NOTE 3
-------------------------------------------------------
-
INTERLINE REISSUE REISSUE CONTACT VC OR ¥
-NOTE 2 ISSG AGT -NOTE 4
(the OP's situation)
----------------------------------------------------------------
- ¥
NOTE:
1. CURRENT AUTO CREATION OF SSR:TKNE AND AUTO REVALIDATION OF
THE COUPON ARE APPLIED WHEN CANCEL AND REBOOK IN SAME EOT.
OTHERWISE, ENSURE TO ADD SSR:TKNE OF REBOOKED CX FLIGHT AND
ET WILL BE REVALIDATED ACCORDINGLY.
2. IF ET IS ISSUED BY TRAVEL AGENT, THE ISSUING TRAVEL AGENT ¥
WHERE ACCESSIBLE CAN DO ET REISSUE.
3. ENSURE SSR:TKNE OF REBOOKED CX FLIGHT IS IN CUPID PNR.
NOTICE THAT LOCAL WORK COPY IN CUPID WILL NOT REFLECT THE
REBOOKED CX FLIGHT.
4. IN CASE CX SECTOR-S ARE ALSO ONE OF REBOOKED SECTORS,
REISSUE ET.
** REMINDERS **
- CHECK ET FARE CONDITIONS WHETHER ET CAN BE REBOOKED/REISSUED
AS THE REQUEST TO BE CHANGED. ¥
- ENSURE ET IS VALID TO TRAVEL ON NEW -MC OR -OC TO BE
REBOOKED.
- ENSURE TO HOLD CONTROL OF AFFECTED COUPON-S TO BE REBOOKED
REISSUED.
4. IN CASE CX SECTOR-S ARE ALSO ONE OF REBOOKED SECTORS,
REISSUE ET.
** REMINDERS **
- CHECK ET FARE CONDITIONS WHETHER ET CAN BE REBOOKED/REISSUED
AS THE REQUEST TO BE CHANGED.
- ENSURE ET IS VALID TO TRAVEL ON NEW -MC OR -OC TO BE
REBOOKED.
- ENSURE TO HOLD CONTROL OF AFFECTED COUPON-S TO BE REBOOKED
REISSUED.
Aug 12, 2008 | 12:46 am
#9
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Fare changes/fuel surcharges are only collected if the fare you are travelling on deems the reissue to be a new ticket purhcase where the told ticket is exchange for the new one.
Aug 12, 2008 | 1:03 am
#10
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Here is the "Interline E-ticket Rebooking Matrix" as shown in CX's system. According to this matrix, if you have a CX e-tkt with an AA sector LAX-SFO, you will have to get it reissued (fourth line "IL to Interline", CX as VC) if you want to change the flight/date/time.
What happens if the fare rule says "date changes permitted without charge" but in order to change the date you need to re-issue and this triggers the fee?
EDIT: Similar to this are carrier changes which should be possible without a fee but always (?) trigger a re-issue.
Aug 12, 2008 | 1:09 am
#11
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Again, the IT problems of the airlines are their problem, not yours. The contract you have entered into is defined by the terms & conditions of the ticket which are clear: no charge for change of date/time.
How the airline fixes it is their problem, but they cannot charge you.
By the way, has anyone else noticed how totally absent oneworld4u has been since we pointed out a few "issues" with their proposed online ticketing for this sort of stuff?
I believe that the moral of this story is to always have at least one open segment and force a paper ticket until the bugs are out of the e-ticketing system. Never use Release 1 of anything - always wait for Service Pack 1.
How the airline fixes it is their problem, but they cannot charge you.
By the way, has anyone else noticed how totally absent oneworld4u has been since we pointed out a few "issues" with their proposed online ticketing for this sort of stuff?
I believe that the moral of this story is to always have at least one open segment and force a paper ticket until the bugs are out of the e-ticketing system. Never use Release 1 of anything - always wait for Service Pack 1.
Aug 12, 2008 | 6:06 am
#12
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http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=854670
Aug 12, 2008 | 1:26 pm
#14
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tfung, you are getting the proverbial runaround. Not 10 days ago, I changed AA segments on a CX-issued AONE5 without any hassle. Hang up and try again. Because of the way CX "merges" the RTW desk with the "regular" desk, you have to get lucky to get an agent that knows the RTW rules or has the presence of mind to know that they don't know what they are doing and pass you on to the fare desk for service.
Aug 15, 2008 | 8:39 pm
#15
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Thanks guys... still no luck... the ticketing desks still insists on charging for a reissue fee and eventually they just got sick of me and said they would forward the request to customer service department for handling... still waiting to see the outcome..