Are you pricing/ticketing RTWs these days?

Yes, as anabolism said, not all code-share flights are bookable individually. Many have traffic restrictions.

How do you use it to get YQ? I have only managed to get DONE4 base fares. What have I missed?

My bad!

I meant to use ITA Matrix to get tax & surcharges; EF to do xONEx routing and flight selections.

Hi again all.



Thanks again for the very helpful replies and all the information and suggestions. It’s given me plenty to think about and discuss with the Tour Approvals Officer! :D

Special thanks to pandaperth, anabolism and Mwenenzi for your comprehensive replies and the alternative route plan which looks great, if a bit daunting for a first time.

Rather than answer each comment in turn, I will try and do it in topics and apologise if I miss any.

Duration.

I know it’s a lot in a month and we can maybe stretch it by a week. We have been to all but one of these locations before so are happy with short stops but plan a longer spell in Tassie. I note the comments about making RTWs into multiple trips and indeed picked that up from the Wiki. However, we want to keep it relatively simple for a first time. Who knows? we might get the taste for it as suggested. One thing the OW tool, despite its imitations has demonstrated, is we can do this in the timescale, subject to future schedules etc. We will have to balance time in the air, time on the ground and the TP earningin the 4-5 weeks, so it will be a compromise anyway.



Locations.

As said, there is only one new one, so we are ok with the time we have and what we plan to do in them, and we also chose easy places for us to visit re visas etc. I absolutely note the comments on Johannesburg, and Cape Town would be better (the tool would not give me an option, same with Kona over Honolulu!).



Segments.

Again, I note the 16 segments and trying to maximise these along with the TP potential. I had not picked up the single transcontinental US flight rule and that explains the options the tool was offering on the LAX to NYC leg, so yes, via DFW to HNL looks attractive.

Given the tools limitations, I agree, I need to look at the options separately on certain legs to get the best out of this.

General.

Intention was also to meet the ‘4 eligible flights rule’ so we will likely be looking at BA codeshares where possible. I note the comments about BA old CW…... (we are used to it!) and we have recent experience of AAs ‘F’ product on internal flights, particularly a redeye from LAS to JFK! So, we will seek the best comfort options where we have that flexibility.

Thanks again for the help and advice, it is very much appreciated. I still have lots of time and planning to do but I will come back and tell you what we settle on and how the process goes!?

On this note, I use spreadsheets for planning. I use Expert Flyer to identify flights that look enjoyable, and put each flight in one row of the spreadsheet, with columns for from airport, to airport, flight number, booking inventory, departure time, arrival time, arrival day offset (0, +1, or +2 for, e.g., LHR-SYD), flight duration, flight miles (all of which I get from EF). I have columns that calculate the day of the week (helpful for planning, as some things we may want to do and some flights are only available on certain days of the week) and the duration between flights, and the earnings. I leave a blank row for a stop (the duration between flights calculation skips over a blank row).

The Tour Approvals Officer is the spreadsheet specialist in the family and I have passed your suggestions to her. 😉

We really like the order of the Asian cities and Australia/NZ in pandaperths plan.

Would it be allowable to route AKL>HKG>CPT(via DOH)>OSL(via LHR or DOH) as the tool says this is against the rules, 2 stops in Europe or Middle East not allowed if traveling to South Africa? I can only see Europe mentioned on the OneWorld website?

There's a restriction in the rules regarding stopping in Europe twice to/from South (another reason why an EF subscription is so handy: it provides fares and fare rules):

So I think you might be OK if you went to South Africa to or from Asia or Australia one way, and Europe the other.

Thanks.

That’s how I read it, so I was trying AKL>HKG>CPT(via DOH)>LHR>OSL. I was thinking of breaking the trip at LHR and doing a short trip to Oslo later in the year with the last segment, but the tool does not like it!?

How many stopovers will you already have in EUR/ME up to that point?

None.

Plan is to start in OSL, then to NYC via LHR but no stopovers, just a connection.

What you want to do is allowable.
Two of the rules of the ticket are in play here:

Rule 8 StopoversSecond Visits to a Continent - Rule 4(e)NOTES
The online tool is very buggy, so never takes its word when it says an itinerary is invalid! (But I've just plugged your itinerary into the tool and it says it's valid!)

The full fare rules are available on the Oneworld web site, the User Guide tells you how to find them.

Provided you haven't stopped over twice in Doha (!), you can stopover in London after Africa
(or before Africa, if you fly HKG-LHR-CPT-DOH-OSL, or both before and after Africa if you don't stopover in Doha at all and you fly HKG-LHR-CPT-DOH-LHR-OSL :D).

In your first post you asked about the optimum time to book. I don't think there is one. As Mwenenzi posted, 'D' space can sometimes be hard to get, so booking earlier rather than later might be indicated - however my two most recent RTWs I booked 6 days and 10 days before their first flights without any problems.
ETA:
A reason for booking earlier than later in these inflationary times is the possibility of fares increases. (For interest, I checked ex-Norway fares, and they are cheaper now than they were back in 2012 !!!)

Qatar Airways business class is far superior to British Airways business class (OSL-DOH-JFK)

Need to write out the complete route and check against the rules. AKL-HKG-CPT-DOH-LHR-OSL [the "via" will trap you some time]
QR also fly into other UK airports. Not just LHR
A map from the Great Circle Mapper - Great Circle Mapper

Ah, looking at the map you posted I realise I had totally forgotten that CX flies to South Africa from Hong Kong! Another option for AlanT :D
Checking Expert Flyer it looks like CX has not yet returned to Cape Town, but it is flying to JNB

ETA:
On second thought, this is not an option - because of the rule regarding a second visit to Asia, which is
"Two permitted in Asia when one is for travel between the Southwest Pacific and Europe/Middle East."
AlanT's first visit will be from Nth America to SWP, and the second from SWP to Africa - so not allowed.

Yes, far better. I suggested OSL-DOH-LAX-JFK rather than OSL-LHR-JFK, but the important point is the much nicer (and longer) QR flights. OSL-DOH is likely a 1-2-1 configuration, much nicer than BA Club Europe, and DOH-LAX or DOH-JFK should be Qsuite, arguably the nicest business class in the air (certainly the nicest in OneWorld).

We took OSL-DOH on QR a couple of weeks ago and I agree. By far the best business service we have had. Attentive (almost as much as JAL aim a good day) and very nice seats even on the 380 which is supposed to be less good.

Due to a medical problem we reached OSL checkin 60 seconds after the desk closed and the local agency staff were absolutely horrible: cold, unwilling to help, refused to call the QR manager. Eventually we did get them to consult QR and the manager was exceptionally helpful, reassuring and professional; he even came down on a scooter to reassure us as we rushed from security to the gate (which was, as always happens when things go awry, the very most distant one). Huge bonus points to QR but not their local Norwegian agent sadly.

We have moved QR to the top of our favourite list.

Having just said how much I like QR , that made me think: if I go OSL-LHR-xDOH-SYD then US then LHR-OSL, is it allowed to do the US-UK bit back through DOH on QR? I think we are allowed to go through DOH twice because one is a direct flight to S Pacific, but would it violate the continuous TC1-2-3 rule?

Yes
No, Middle East is part of Europe.

There is no limitation on how many times you can go through DOH, the only limitation that might cause some issues is you can't fly the same city pair in the same direction more than once. Also, since Europe is your originating continent you are only allowed two stopovers in Europe.

I always end up going through DOH multiple times on my regular RTWs
My record is four times, back in 2015
JNB-xDOH-EZE......BKK-xDOH-CMN-xDOH-OSL-xDOH-NBO :D
As anabolism said, there is no restriction on the number of stopovers/transits you can have at any point (other than the point of origin - no stopovers or transits allowed there)

Re the TC1-TC2-TC3 routing rule, from the User Guide:

• You must visit all three Tariff Conferences – you will of course be starting in one of them, so you must visit the other two in order (travelling either eastbound or westbound), and complete your RTW journey by returning to your starting TC; generally you must return to your starting country (there are exceptions - see More Rule Details below for more information)
• ...

So for your itinerary, you are starting in TC2 then heading East to TC3 followed by TC1 and finally back to TC2. On your TC1-TC2 crossing you can most certainly fly US-Doha and, if you cared to, follow this with Doha-Africa-Doha before finally returning to the country of origin to complete the RTW

Hi again. Thanks for the replies to the extra questions.

Below is one of the options we’re considering, it still starts in OSL.

Thought is to break the trip at LHR (from CPT) then do LHR>DOH>OSL at a later date to complete the RTW and use all 16 segments. Based on the comments above, this should be allowable as we would just transit again through DOH?

Thanks again for all the help. 😀

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fly...46a498b594.gif
Potential RTW route

As you know, you are allowed only two stopovers in your continent of origin.
So provided your first visit to London is only a transit (meaning not more than 24hrs) and that your first visit to Doha is also only a transit,
Then you can stopover in both London and Doha at the end of your RTW

I hope you enjoy your retirement trip :tu:

Brilliant, that’s what I thought but good to get confirmation👍

I’m sure we will enjoy it. We have decided to increase the duration to almost 6 weeks, so we get a bit more time in a few locations. Not backtracking across the US in the above plan has given us extra segments elsewhere, at the compromise of accepting the standard AA or AS business product. Tour Approvals Officer is not keen on going to NYC via DOH from OSL (despite the benefits of QR) and we will have to ‘suffer’ some BA CW (but will look for Club Suite options like from CPT to LHR). She did however say good, now she can go to Disneyland, Tokyo Disney and Hong Kong Disney!🙄

And I thought it was my trip!?🤔……….…..I will however hopefully, get to an NFL game in both NJ and LA based on our proposed dates?

Thanks for all the help so far, it’s been invaluable.

Oh, and good luck to the Toffees later! 😉

Don’t let her forget DisneySea in Tokyo then 😜
The Tokyo parks are the best in the world (apart from probably language barriers).

Is she nervous about flying to the country of Qatar? I would think if she tried flying Europe to the U.S. on QR she'd be hooked.

Did that when we were there for the World Cup in 2002, although I suspect it’s changed since then? One park will be quite enough, I’d rather Universal if I had a choice! 😏

Not nervous, just not keen on flying 7 hours the wrong way as she sees it. I have a job convincing her to fly from MAN, even when it offers a substantial saving over LHR for TATL and have given up on trying to argue for exEU, but OSL is ok here as its another ‘holiday’, plus it saves a few bob on the RTW. Haven’t given up yet though on via DOH to JFK.

Alan T
I've been looking at timetables, and I think your SWMBO has a valid point.
OSL-LHR-JFK will be a flying time of 2:30+7:45=10:15, and with whatever transit time you want since there are so many options for the two flights
Whereas
OSL-DOH-JFK is 6:30+14:15=20:45 flying time pus an overnight 8:50 in transit, for a total elapsed time of 29:35. Perhaps not the best way to start an around the world journey? And you will be flying QR later on anyway.

Of course, there are some of us here on Flyer Talk (me included :D) who would jump at the Qatar Airways option. Perhaps we're mad?

No, I don’t think you’re mad at all, I can see the attraction depending on circumstances. Hopefully QR will put QSuite back on the HKG flights as it looks like they are not flying that currently according to some sources? I will get the Expert Flyer subscription sorted as we move towards booking as that looks a great one stop resource.

Now need to switch focus to our trip next month, to Alaska and back on BA and AS via SEA

Thanks again for all the help here.

Another reason to have an Expert Flyer subscription is that you can get accurate seat maps of any flight. It's the most reliable way to tell if a QR flight has Qsuite, or a BA flight has old Club World or new Club Suite. (I believe seat maps are available for free.)

Does anyone know if Turkïye is middle east or Europe? I have an ex-CAI DONE5 that I'm trying to finish LHR-AMM-IST but apparently can only do LHR-IST-AMM due to question above. Essentially trying to avoid BA/club Europe here with RJ.

Can't see any mention in the rules so would appreciate if anyone has a definitive source.

Thanks in advance!

Turkey is included in Europe.

Thanks! LHR-IST-AMM it is. I just found 2 RJ J rewards AMM-LHR via BA for Easter Monday so going to book that in and that's what I call a wrap! :)

As an extension to this, I had an itinerary CAI-xCMN-JFK-DCA-DFW-MEL-xSYD-(SIN-MLE)-xDOH-SEZ-xDOH-LHR-DOH which I've asked to be changed to:
​​​​​​
CAI-xCMN-JFK-DCA-DFW-MEL-xSYD-SIN-xCMB-MLE-xDOH-SEZ-DOH-LHR-IST-AMM which I was told was valid and sent off for pricing.

Now they've come back they want ~£740pp including the ~£101 change fee.

Question is - does this sound right? Calculating the added taxes via ITA Matrix for IST-AMM comes to about £100pp and SIN-xCMB-MLE about £60pp. I haven't done LHR-IST but considering I had already paid APD for LHR-DOH I can't imagine it being a lot more.


Additionally this is before the first segment, so I'm expecting a reprice but looking at EF I can see the DONE5 fare CAI-CAI filed on 26/12/23 is the same price I had paid originally (or very very close, the 145k EGP translates to ~£20 or so difference via Google rate).

In total including change fees I'd expect somewhere around £600 or less for 2 rather than the £1400 they want. I did indeed call AA RTW desk and spent 40 minutes on hold where they said they were on the phone with pricing but they ended up hanging up on me :( Calling back they said they would raise it with pricing and I should call back tomorrow.

What's my best course of action here? Or am I really missing something that will make it cost that much?

Thank you all for the continued advice :)

Edit: by my own calculations of the changed segments I found that this change would have been £1 or so due to reduction of YQ DOH-LHR and APD from £191 to £26 however after pressing with AA they are certain it's correct so I've had to pay it anyway.

That said, I have the fare tax calculation figures, can anyone make more sense of it than me?

Old ticket:

Fare : EGP 145000.00
Taxes : 521.70 YQ 309.60 YR 47.50 XT
Fare Calculation: CAISEZDOHLONDOH4785.47NUC4785.47END ROE30.30 XT41.10YR4.70AY1.70PZXFDFW4.5PD191.00GB55.81UB10.9 0EG4.10XK20.90QH1.40JK1.70EQ19.70MA35.40US5.50YC5. 90XY3.20XA9.40AY33.40AU8.80QR3.60WG31.90WY50.20BQ5 0.20H927.60QA.80PZ27.60G441.80DW.40O2.80O94.60R91. 70S412.5


New ticket:
Fare : EGP 145000.00
Taxes : 722.20 YQ 350.70 YR 678.90 XT
Fare Calculation 0NUC0END ROE30.30XT304.30YQ255.70YR41.20ZZ27.00SG6.70L75.00 OP17.80TR2.70M62.10O712.60P13.80XFDFW4.5PD14.10AY2 .50PZ26.00GB55.81UB10.90EG4.10XK20.90QH1.40JK1.70E Q19.70MA35.40US5.50YC5.90XY3.20XA33.40AU8.80QR50.2 0BQ50.20H927.60QA27.60G441.80DW.40O2.80O94.6

I​​​​s there any way I can estimate the taxes using ITA to calculate on 001 stock?

Additionally, am I correct in the total ticket value should be the fare + the taxes? At 145000EGP (~3778GBP), £720.2 YQ, 350.7 YR, 678.9 XT that comes to £5527.8 pp however my credit card charges (there has been multiple due to them saying there is technical limitations with EGP) comes to £6258.61 which is more than what it says?

Would appreciate anyone's advice again on this because if I've overpaid £629.81pp taking into account the change fee I would very much like it back.

Your fare calculation does not look complete to me. I can probably calculate the taxes on AA-001 plate, but can you specify the airline used (marketing carrier) for each sector? Also, what does "(SIN-MLE)" mean?

Sure I can, (SIN-MLE) means surface segment but apologies if I have the wrong notation.

My old itinerary was:
​​
CAI-CMN: AA7972 26/12/23
CMN-JFK: AA7950 26/12/23
JFK-DCA: AA4479 29/12/23
DCA-DFW: AA1624 31/12/23
DFW-MEL: AA7386 03/01/24
MEL-SYD: QF0432 12/01/24
SYD-SIN: QF0001 12/01/24
MLE-DOH: QR0675 22/01/24
DOH-SEZ: QR0678 23/01/24
SEZ-DOH: QR0679 30/01/24
​DOH-LHR: QR0011 31/01/24
LHR-DOH: QR0004 06/02/24

My new Itinerary is:

CAI-CMN: AA7972 26/12/23
CMN-JFK: AA7950 26/12/23
JFK-DCA: AA4479 29/12/23
DCA-DFW: AA1624 31/12/23
DFW-MEL: AA7386 03/01/24
MEL-SYD: QF0432 12/01/24
SYD-SIN: QF0001 12/01/24
SIN-CMB: UL0309 14/01/24
CMB-MLE: UL0101 15/01/24
MLE-DOH: QR0675 22/01/24
DOH-SEZ: QR0678 23/01/24
SEZ-DOH: QR0679 30/01/24
​LHR-IST: AA6465 01/03/24
IST-AMM: RJ0168 04/03/24

Very much appreciate you helping with this, do you have any idea also if the Fare + YQ + YR + XT should equal the total price? I am very green with pricing, but also if you have any resources I can learn myself I will look too.

​​

XT just means "all other taxes." Some display show YQ and YR first, and in this case XT is all the real taxes since YQ and YR are airline-imposed fees. Some display show the first 2 real taxes first, in which case YQ and YR become part of XT. Fare + tax 1 + tax 2 + XT is the total.

Open-jaw is SIN//CMB or SIN/-CMB. There is a distinction between these but let's not get in there now as it's irrelevant to xONEx.

I'm not sure why my Sabre is autopricing your itinerary as a DONE6 when it should just be a DONE5, but this is what I got. I assume you are buying this ticket from the UK and this is priced in GBP? When was the old ticket issued and when did you get the quote for the new ticket? As of now, the taxes and fees should add up to 1825.21GBP, slightly higher than the quote you got. Don't know if it's due to currency fluctuation or YR/YQ/tax rate change.

Lastly, I will be very surprised if AA is willing to book you on LHR-IST on AA as a standalone flight. The flight is "INTL ONLINE CONEX/STPVR TFC ONLY," but if AA issued it for you, go for it.

Mate thank you so much for this, my initial ticket was priced 9/03, and the one that I have LHR-DOH was the 15/03, my latest one was 21/04.

Indeed it is priced in GBP, however I'm not sure if PoS is Dallas or if it's London? I'm not sure there would be much difference anyway.

Agreed it is very odd that LHR-IST is AA standalone but it is ticketed and earns better Avios to QRPC anyway so I'll go with it. It's strange about the DONE6 pricing too. I wonder why?

In regards to your knowledge on fare + XT + YQ + YR I would say in this case I have definitely overpaid the ticket. My total amex debits to AA for this end up at £6263.41pp. Subtract the ~3778 fare, 1825.21 taxes you calculated, and 101 change fee I'm over by £558.8 per person.

Does this pass the sense check to you? If so, how do you think I should tackle this? Ask for total recalculation and reconcilation or is it worth going the complaint route as I've tried to sort this over 10s of phone calls
Thanks again :) I appreciate it so much

Edit: I forgot to include DOH-LHR: QR0015 02/02/24 above so it's a stopover rather than a transit, do you think that could be the reason?

Difference in surcharges qatar
 

I hope someone can confirm for me - I'm pricing the surcharges on a DONE5 my husband and I want to take next year, using ITA Matrix. The surcharges listed on a Qatar ATH-DOH-SYD sector are $AUD1409. But if I do two searches - ATH-DOH, then DOH-SYD the surcharges list as $AUD379, then $AUD343 respectively still with Qatar - a saving of $AUD687/person. Is this correct? If we stay in DOH for a couple of days, will those lower surcharges stand? I'd prefer to fly Qatar business class on that long haul.
Any advice much appreciated.