Hi all rtw experts here,

Did 3 ex-Japan DONE3/4 pre pandemic, all booked via old online tool so I was familiar with its quirks, using it to plan reroutings to make changes easier with CX (my issuing airline each time) whenever I needed.

1) Just started using new online tool which is buggy as hell especially when it comes to flight selection - is there a better system or alternative for a non travel agent to be able to check these RTW tickets down to the available flight level?
2) Since the online tool is buggy - is flight availability accurate? I wanted to fly TYO-DFW as a first segment and was unable to find any direct flights on the online tool, but JAL online had business class availability for quite a few days around my target departure.
3) after a while I did manage to price up a ticket on the tool that directed me to book via JAL reservations desk. Is waittime for JAL very long, particularly to reach someone who can handle RTW in English? I also recall someone post JAL had some rebooking surcharge of 5000 yen - is that on top of another fee for rerouting the ticket? I was used to paying 125usd for CX on reroutings and 0 for changing flight dates.

Reverting to the ex-CAI issue I see that RJ is still offering fares at a reasonable price. I wondered whether people had much experience of RJ's customer service, in particular when there are itinerary changes?

The other reason to be cautious for this Brit is that as a UK Amex/BA card holder I would lose the triple Avios bonus in addition to access to the BA GGL line to deal with the booking.

Thanks.

Might be worth pricing out ex-OSL instead if you want to ticket on BA, since BA has dropped ex-CAI entirely.

Hey all

Hope you don't mind - but just giving this a bump. Really grateful for any thoughts from any FT'ers on these two points (itinerary can be found in original post).

Thank you so much in advance!

It’s a little hard to follow exactly what you are doing but a stopover in DOH is a stopover in your continent of origin. So your stopover in LHR when combined with your stopover in DOH is the sum total of your allowed stopovers in EUR/ME. Your proposed stopovers in CDG and in some Italian destination are not possible.

Informational and questions at bottom. "Gardyloo" has assisted me (I have been a real PITA to him but he has helped me understand greatly) as a virgin/newbee of RTW. I prepared an itinerary which I cannot use due to scheduling. But it is:
OSL-DOH-MLE Feb 6 QR176 (D9) QR676 (D9)
MLE-CMB Feb 11 UL116 (D4)
CMB-CGK Feb 16 UL364 (D4)
CGK-KUL Feb 23 MH710 (D7)
KUL-HKG-PER Feb 28 CX730 (D6) CX171 (D6)
PER-MEL-AKL Mar 7 QF10 (D4) QF155 (D4)
AKL-SYD-HNL Mar 20 QF 148 (D7) QF103 (D7)
HNL-LAX Mar 23 AA162 (D7)

LAX-JFK April 22 AA28 (D7)
JFK-MXP April 23 AA198 (D7)
MXP-DOH-OSL April 29 QR128 (D9) QR175 (D9)

16 Segments 38,282 miles estimated BA tier points 1640

Asked AA RTW for pricing and never received info. However did pull up on site pricing of $8270.05 pp. YQ was $2212.80. Base $5405 balance is little stuff.

Questions:
1. If I replace any/some QF with AA code shares will YQ be reduced?
2. Any other ways someone sees to reduce YQ
3. For 1640 tier pts/38K miles, is it reasonable for this rtw fare?
4. Is this realistic price for the route?
5. Is there a benefit not showing BA FF# or trying to post different FF# on some flights to secure 1500 on BA and balance someplace else- like AS or QF?

Thanks again to Gardyloo and those with some patience to assist me.

[QUOTE=SSY;35387041]Hi all rtw experts here,
1) Just started using new online tool which is buggy as hell especially when it comes to flight selection - is there a better system or alternative for a non travel agent to be able to check these RTW tickets down to the available flight level?
2) Since the online tool is buggy - is flight availability accurate? I wanted to fly TYO-DFW as a first segment and was unable to find any direct flights on the online tool, but JAL online had business class availability for quite a few days around my target departure.]

I'm far from an expert--I have many more questions than answers, but I did manage to book a DONE3 recently with AA RTW desk by using a combination of FlightConnections (paid version) and Expert Flyer (also a subscription). The former shows direct flights between any city pair and you can filter for oneworld. The latter will give you fare availability (L, D, or A depending on desired class of service). It was laborious but I found a route and a flight for each segment, called and just fed flight numbers to the RTW agent. I would happily pay a travel agent to do this if I could be certain they would be available to handle changes, both inflicted and desired.

1. I used the old online tool which seemed to like 80% work, and then to finesse things I used the paid ExpertFlyer subscription, searching in D class ±2 days.
2. Nah it's not particularly accurate. In my case the online tool was lacking some options (codeshares, I think) that I could see in ExpertFlyer and the AA agents confirmed were available.
3. I used JAL to ticket mine pre-pandemic in English and didn't have to wait long at all. However, yes, JAL charges an extra ¥5500 to book or change a ticket, on top of the $0 for date charges or $125 for reroutings. I called AA to ticket it and it was a really great experience — they were fast, professional, and super quick to get ahold of, and there are no extra service charges. (I think I read that AA will issue the ticket only if you have a transoceanic flight with them; I have one from LAX to LHR.) Also note that if you create a JAL itinerary via the online tool, the AA RTW desk can see it but can't ticket it — they need to replicate it and D class may be sold out because you're already holding the seats!

[QUOTE=skipaway;35398651]When you mention JL having business class availability near your target dates, I'm assuming you used ExpertFlyer and confirmed that's actually D availability, correct? It's not uncommon of them to not have any D availability on Long Haul near holiday periods. AA is usually much better and I'm surprised you weren't about to find anything on the AA flights from NRT or HND.

You're correct the online tool is quite buggy but you should be able to at least get pricing (in most cases) and availability. I've personally not ran into any issues with it not showing availability that I've found in EF myself. One thing that might be affecting you is married segments. When you search in EF for D availability you have to search for the entire flight combo (example HND-DFW-MEX), just because HND-DFW and DFW-MEX both have availability separately won't matter, to book it as a connection you have to have married segment availability unless you build in a stopover (over 24 hours in DFW). I've found this to be very problematic with AA, QF, and QR, though I'm sure others do it as well.

[QUOTE=dvs7310;35400226]I didnt use EF then, just the website so did not see if it was D availability. But online tool was so buggy to allow me to see and select some AA direct flights that wouldnt show up initially only after changing dates but then that also stopped working so I gave up and booked via AA RTW desk. First time using them, great to know this option now with mostly competent humans without much wait. Ended up booking DONE3 TYO-DFW-LAX-SEA-NYC-CLT-MUC-MAD-CPH-DOH-HKG-SIN-TYO, with NYC-CLT-MUC and CPH-DOH-HKG booked separately but could easily be booked as transit but I just don't have that many more travel ideas to squeeze more legs at the moment so am open to any ideas. I think I can squeeze another leg in US and Europe, each?

I was unable to price this itinerary even if I specified DONE4, but changing the last sectors to BA via LHR, I was able to get Sabre autoprice for DGLOB34. QF definitely represents the big chunk of YQ (1145EUR) if you ticket through AA.
Yes, if you change SYD-HNL to AA code, this 1145EUR YQ would be dropped, when plated on AA.

A more effective way to reduce YR/YQ would be to plate this itinerary on QR, in which case only QR (and BA if used)'s YR/YQ will be charged. I believe if you actually call QR, they will calculate YR/YQ segment by segment, rendering the calculation a lot higher. You probably need to find a Sabre agent that can do this on Sabre autoprice (but then it won't autoprice unless you change the last 2 sectors to BA).

Now, there is an even better way, though I don't know if possible - plate the itinerary on AS (use AS flight for HNL-LAX). The only YQ/YR charged are the ones from BA (again, if used).

I have finally had our DONE5 tickets issued by the AA desk in Austin after some teething problems:

oNRT(JAL)-oHNL(AS)-oSEA(AS)-oCUN(AA)-oJFK(AA)-oGRU(AA)-oJFK(QR)-oDOH(QR)-oLHR(BA)-oATH(QR)-xDOH(QR)-oSYD(QF)-oAKL(CX)-oHKG(CX)-oBKK(JAL)-overland to SGN-NRT

Mileage is 52,477.

The total final price was $AUD11,214.70 each. The breakdown of the fees and taxes is difficult as AA have yet to send me (after repeated requests) any full breakdown and logging on to the AAdvantage website under fees/receipts for the trip gives me no clarification either. I was verbally advised during booking that the taxes/fees would amount to $AUD1855 of that. Should I have received an email containing a detailed breakdown?

As I’m chasing status with AA, I’m hoping (based on Pandaperth’s recent experience) that they calculate the CUN-JFK-GRU-JFK AA miles on miles covered, not spend but I guess I won’t know until we fly in 2024.

Thanks so much to all of you on this forum (particularly Pandaperth who stepped up yet again) over the past month who answered my sometimes stupid questions – we wouldn’t be seeing anywhere near as much of our kids in US and UK if not for the info I have gained here!

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Edit Quote

Hehe, I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who uses DOH as a transit point for Europe. :p Certainly one of the better loopholes in xONEx routing at the moment. Kinda like routing via DEL to get from HKG to TYO.

If you happen to remember it would be awesome if you come back and post your findings after you fly. This seems to be quite hit or miss, but I suspect if you're AA ticketed then you're going to get a revenue calculation on the AA coded flights, which will be miniscule compared to what you'd have gotten on a distance calculation (175% + status bonus). I had DFW-GRU-JFK on my last ticket AA coded and got a distance calculation for them, but that was on QF ticket stock. I've been in contact with AAdvantage customer service about this and they flat out refuse to give a definitive answer to when it counts as a special fare and when it doesn't. So more data points spread around FT would be nice. I'm going to have AKL-DFW on my next one, but not going to risk AA calculating as revenue, so will ticket it on the QF code despite it only being 150% vs. 175% (if AA credits as distance).

Just looking at your price above, you're definitely getting pinched for more YQ / YR than a QF or CX issued ticket. QF ex-TYO seems to be the cheapest but I'm not going through that mess again that they've created with their customer service. CX is about $200 more (than QF), though a good chunk of that is actually HKG airport fees more so than CX YQ/YR itself. I can live with that to have competent agents to call for changes.

Now, there is an even better way, though I don't know if possible - plate the itinerary on AS (use AS flight for HNL-LAX). The only YQ/YR charged are the ones from BA (again, if used).


[/QUOTE]

Thanks for info. AA never got back but found the reservation at $8270. Before I could "tweak" the flights and dates the "boss lady" said if we were going to spend $8K lets do 2 trips to MLE & CMB 1st class on AA/QR. Booked the flights last week. https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/prem...qr-f-3-6k.html

But thanks for your insight and info. I have left this to refer back as still think it would be fun.

This is interesting. On another thread, the OP posted a PDF of the fare breakdown was sent by the Oneworld robot for a proposed DONE4 trip originating at OSL. It had a huge number for YQ, not traceable to carriers or flights, but on the fare sheet it said the trip was a DGLOB34, not a DONE4. Based on this and your failed attempt to price a DONEx but getting autopricing for a DGLOB34, it sounds like the Oneworld robots are doing the same thing - defaulting to the Global Explorer. I wonder what would happen if the proposed itinerary were to exceed 34K flown miles. https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/35398652-post8.html

I haven't used Sabre since the bad old days of EasySabre (ha ha, what a joke) and I'm wondering how one would go about finding a TA that is expert enough with the current platform to book an xONEx using it. Maybe this is a possible line of business for a travel consultant of some sort, charging an hourly fee for the service. Being able to plate on AA or AS (or QR, whatever) as opposed to relying on the lousy Oneworld online tool might be a godsend; hundreds, maybe thousands of dollars/pounds/Euros might be on the line.

I have provided the breakdown at https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/35413929-post13.html. Let me know if you have difficulties understanding the tax breakdown generated.

I must confess I did not know what Eaasy Sabre is and had to search on Google. It was great to learn such thing existed. I believe we have a couple of US- and Canada-based TAs on FT before the pandemic?　Not sure if they are still around. https://nexion.com/ seems to be another option if someone in the US or Canada wants to have Sabre access themselves.

Hi,

Could I get some feedback on this DONE3? This is only my second one, so I'm still a bit new -- learned a couple (small) things the hard way first time, so figured it'd be good to ask here before this one.

Looking to earn BA points and ticket through AA RTW.

TYO-HNL on JL
HNL(LAX)CUN on AA/AS
CUN-SFO on AS
SFO-BOS on AS
BOS-MAD on IB
MAD(DOH)MXP on QR
MXP-LHR on BA
LHR(DOH)MLE on QR
MLE(CMB)BKK on UL
BKK-TYO on JL

Can I get AA desk to convert the IB flight to an AA code share? That would save fees (I think) and I believe it'd still count towards the 4 segments for BAEC. Anyone other tweaks I should consider?

In fact, when plating on AA, it is cheaper to use IB code for BOS-MAD than AA code. AA code comes with a YR of 175USD which is not charged when BOS-MAD is on IB code.

AA marketed IB operated would not count as one of the 4 eligible flights necessary for BA silver or gold status. IB marketed and operated, IB marketed BA operated, and BA marketed IB operated do count.
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/33863721-post4.html

Also see ba.com:

Thanks to you both. I had misread that on BA, and wouldn't have guessed that re: the fees. It looks like fees are pretty well minimized otherwise from what I can tell, at least conditional on the route. Thanks for providing the info.

Given what people have said before about the AA desk sometimes requiring that the first long haul flight be on their code, I'm a little worried about this one since there is no AA code share for TYO-HNL (at least that I can see on EF). If they balk and HUCA doesn't help, what is the 2nd best way to book these things?

There are many mixed reports of AA and how they require their codes to ticket it, but it looks to me that if you do AA codes HNL-LAX-CUN then you should be able to get them to ticket it. The issue I think you may run into is they may insist on having BOS-MAD on an AA code which will complicate your journey to BA status. You'll get far more Avios if after October on an AA code, but won't count for your 4x required segments.

JL DONE3 availability not matching EF D availability?
 

Hello: I have done several RTWs in the past but not for a few years. I'm now planning one for later this year but having a problem with JL flights. I did some planning with the OW tool but found it buggy so ended up calling the AA RTW office to book. There are three segments that I need on JL that all show D9 on EF, but AA says they are not available. Agent claims that JL restricts the number of seats available for AA to book, even if they are available to other airlines. I asked her to contact the Oneworld liaison, which she apparently did but came back with the same answer.
Is this something new - that we cannot rely on EF for D availability for DONEx's, and does it only affect JL or other airlines too?

Or was I misinformed?
Thanks.

What point of sale did you use to search?

Were these flights transits or stopovers? Assuming you searched expertflyer to find availability did you search for the flights as standalone flights or if they were transits did you search as connections? Considering the prevalence of carriers to use married segments this could affect availability.

I know JL restricts AA from some award flights that are available to other OW airlines, but not aware of that on any revenue tickets. My first suspicion is that your issue is likely married segment availability. You have to have D available on the segment pair/trio, etc. together if it's all in transit, not a stopover. You can only rely on segment by segment availability if you have a stopover over 24 hours. I've been able to trick the OneWorld tool on those, but you won't be able to do it with a real agent, they're going to enter it (correctly) as the entire journey, not point by point. (Example: HND-JFK-GRU, you need D availability on that entire journey and they'll run the search HND-GRU, it doesn't matter if HND-JFK and JFK-GRU independently have availability unless you want to spend over 24 hours in NYC). It can make some routes on xONEx very frustrating.

I searched both the entire journey, and segment by segment: D9 all the way, yet AA sees nothing. Very odd.

I ran into something that's perhaps related -- I could not switch flights on an AA ticketed DONE4 RTW to a QF flight where they were showing seats in D. I tried with a couple different agents -- the first seemed surprised that it was showing availability but the second did not; he just said that not everything showing in D is available to us.

You have both just reinforced the point that I'm going to get my next DONEx ticketed by CX. AA definitely seem to have the best RTW agents in OneWorld, but too many rules and limitations that seem to be 001 / AA only. That unfortunately means having to depart Japan from NGO or FUK since most CX NRT/HND/KIX/CTS flights have zero D availability in late December, but c'est la vie, I can take the shinkansen to Nagoya and navigate myself to Chubu airport from there.

Has anyone found a travel agency willing to ticket a RTW on Alaska? From what I understand, Alaska doesn't want agencies to ticket the RTW from them, even though Alaska actually publishes RTW fares.

Assuming you can find an agent to do it, I think another question is also what are AS's rules to be the issuing carrier. Some airlines want to be the first carrier on the ticket and I don't think a lot of FTers ticket xONEx's with North America points of origin due to the higher cost. AS's route network is quite limited so if that was their rule, you don't have any cheap starting points to work with.

I should have been more clear. I want to start in CAI and have a ticket issued on Alaska. Alaska does publish a fare from CAI (and everywhere else, actually) but still don't want to be the issuing carrier.

Ideas to reduce YQ/YR?
 

Hey all

Thank you so much for all the helpful insights here! I am currently planning a DONE5 with the following flights:

1. OSL-xLHR-oATL [Will be on BA metal]
2. [Surface sector]
3. JFK-xLAX-xHKG-xSYD-oHTI [JFK-LAX will on AA metal to get A321T transcontinental, LAX-HKG-SYD will be on CX metal, SYD-HTI will be on QF metal]
4. [Surface sector]
5. SYD-oHKG-oCDG [Will be on CX metal]
6. CDG-xDOH-oJRO [Will be QR metal, unless anybody has any better ideas?]
7. [Surface sector]
8. ZNZ-xDOH-xLHR-oOSL [Will be QR metal for ZNZ-DOH-LHR and BA metal for LHR-OSL]

I would be very grateful for any help from anybody with auto pricing capability on the following:

• I plan on ticketing through AA RTW, so it will be plated on 001 / AA. Is it possible to reduce the YQ / YR if I plate through another carrier (that is actually competent / is not very difficult to get a hold of)?
• Can I save on YQ / QR by ticketing any of these (particularly point 1 and point 8) on another OW codeshare (e.g. AA codeshare but operated by BA)?

From a mileage perspective, the large number of CX sectors is because I need to maximise it to renew my CX DM status. To that end, I am also mulling point 5 to change this to SYD-oHKG-xDOH-oCDG (and I would get one sector back by switching point 8 so that it's ZNZ-xDOH-oOSL).

I would prefer to plate through CX if possible but it has been an absolute nightmare trying to get anybody to understand what I am doing. Nobody in any global contact centre understands xONEx ticketing and I've been languishing with them for several weeks. Does anybody know of any better way to get through to somebody competent at CX to book an xONEx?

Thanks so much in advance!

Until someone with more expertise answers you, the first thing I would do is try to avoid departing LHR if at all possible. Oneworld flies to Doha and Madrid from Oslo on Iberia (per flightconnections.com) and to Doha on Qatar. I'd pay a little extra for the latter. I have Expert Flyer and would be happy to check whatever it was you wanted priced, but it won't give me YQ and other fees, just base fare. I use AA to book, at least I know I can reach them, lol, and the ticketing airline can't even tell you the final cost until they send it off to be priced. This sounds like a great trip.

Second thoughts:
Have you thought about buying both directions SYD-HTI as a separate trip? And also at your point 6 flying DOH-ZNZ-DOH? It's not far to Kili from ZNZ (or DAR), and it might be worth it to save a total of 3 segments with the two separate nested tickets. Price for the latter is not insignificant at the moment, but SYD-HTI-SYD not bad
There are some folks on here that can to the detailed pricing, usually with pages of, to me, unintelligible script. I would just like to find an agent skilled at booking these. I've heard AMEX.....

A quick price check (economy) for SYD-HTI-SYD for a random date in about a month. Business class more and better for the ~2:30hr flight
JQ AU$250
VA AU$350 (ff partner of QR Qatar, UA and others)
QF AU$600
But prices vary widely and did not check the departure/arrival times. Some may be at unsociable hours.
During peak times HTI can be hard ($$$) for accommodation and flights

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_...r_Reef_Airport
A map from the Great Circle Mapper - Great Circle Mapper

Pretty sure Amex is still using Expedia as their agent aren't they? Chase switched away from Expedia last year and it's much improved but I still don't think they'd be competent to issue a RTW. There are definitely a few independent agents who lurk on here but none seem to publicly offer to ticket RTWs so I'll let you find them and PM them yourself if that's of interest. Independent agents of course do have to sleep and likely have a regular job, so it may take a day or two to make changes vs. a 24 hour agent like Amex (though I seriously doubt Amex can issue RTWs, but would love to be proven wrong).

If there are independent agents either members here or known to members I wish they'd be recognized. I believe there's a forum for tools here somewhere, and award bookers have a page. Or maybe the travel agents have seen the brutal reviews and said, "no thanks".

I think that was only for the amex travel web bookings? Calling in to the plat travel number used to send it through a different channel but I'm not sure if that's still true.

For me at least, FT has been a great resource and I'd like to primarily contribute back via data points/posts answering questions rather than risk using it as an advertising platform. Even without that enough people find their way into my PM inbox that I sometimes have to turn away those with more open ended requests anyways.

Upgrading a Oneworld Explorer
 

I suspect I know the answer, but I have to ask:
If a Oneworld Explorer is upgraded after it has begun, is any credit given for the number of segments or miles used at the lower level in calculating the upgrade cost?

Thanks skipaway ! Really appreciated.

• On SYD-HTI, I did consider it as a separate trip but as it's 2.5 hours it trips into a new threshold for higher earning if I credit to CX. I would actually ideally head to BNE but as BNE-HTI-BNE is operated by Alliance for QF, xONEx doesn't allow me to ticket as it's not an approved affiliate. My plan is just to remove the sector (at the cost of a change fee) if I need to find a spare sector, but as I'm spare one/two sectors (and maxed out on number of flights within Europe), I thought best to just lock it in now.
• On DOH-JRO / ZNZ-DOH, that's a good shout! Probably not the right forum for this, but some quick googling indicates that it's about USD 100-150 extra to fly to the key safari airstrips from ZNZ (compared to going back to JRO). To my mind - again at the risk of losing a segment on the surface sector - it sort of nets out as I cannot really fly anywhere else within the scope of the DONE5 on OW metal within Africa, but if you have any ideas I'm all ears!

Many thanks again :)

PS: Managed to squeeze out another sector by ditching BA in favour of going LHR-xDOH-ATL on QR metal. Figured this earns a fair chunk more than going ZNZ-xDOH-xLHR-OSL and gets in earlier to ATL, at the cost of doing several hours in DOH.

No. Although I have never upgraded an xonex to a higher xonex, my understanding of the process is you are paying for the higher class xonex with the amount paid for partially flown lower class xonex applied as a credit; you will only have the unused segments of the lower class xonex available to use with the higher class xonex. For example, if you buy an LONE4 and after flying 4 segments you decide you want to turn it into an DONE4, the price you paid for the LONE4 is applied as a credit to the cost of the DONE4 (the price of the DONE4 will be based upon your point of origin of the LONE4) and you will have 12 segments of the DONE4 left. The segments you have flown already are already used no additional credit is available.