jwlowry

I would appreciate the thoughts of reasonable folks on this, please, since I'm not sure if my judgement is objective on this one. I apologize for the length of this post, but I want to include all pertinent details. Also, I don't mean to be inflammatory by the title of this post, but I think it is possible that I am being retalitated against for a complaint I filed recently via TTU (As I have posted elsewhere (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showt...=823514&page=4), I had a bizzare experience with a Compass FA who seemed to be retaliating against me because of a complaint I filed against her co-worker.).

Late last week, I was connecting back home through DTW. This was a Northwest (not Compass, Pinnacle, etc. flight and crew on a DC-9. Two flight deck crew, three cabin crew) We were delayed about 45 minutes (I had a 55 minute connection) on the inbound to DTW for the following reasons: about 30 minutes due to an mechanical, about another 10 minutes because there was no ground crew to assist us in parking at the gate, and another 5 minutes or so because the FA in the F cabin was chatting with the GA who openend the door and wouldn't let the pax pass by. Finally, another F pax said, "Come on!" and the flight attendant looked up at me, gave me a nasty glare, then stood aside and let us go on our way.

I hustled to the gate for my departing flight, hoping it was still there (everything still indicated on time). I arrived at the gate just about at the scheduled departure time to discover that boarding hadn't yet begun. After waiting another 5 or so minutes without a delay announcement from the GA, I inquired as to why we were not yet boarding. She replied that the crew was late arriving. I asked her the flight number, and Lo! and Behold! it was the flight on which I had just arrived. Okay, that makes sense. The GA then made an announcement that the incoming flight crew was delayed because of a special needs pax that needed extra assistance. I then politely informed the GA that I (and a few others in the gate area) was on that flight, and we were delayed because of a mechanical and a failure to be met by ground crew. She politely pointed out that she could only relay information she was given on her "screen". Okay, fair enough. We were now at about twenty minutes after our scheduled departure time and still no sign of the crew.

At about 40 minutes past scheduled departure time, the crew showed up at the gate. The FA who had given me the vicious glare on the previous flight pushed her way past me, and when I said "excuse me," she turned, apparently recognized me, and reported in to the GA for boarding. However, the crew did not all board right away. The FAs and First Officer boarded, but the Captain stayed behind and spoke to the GA for a few minutes longer. Then, the Captain walked straight over to me and told me that I would not be allowed to board his aircraft. Shocked, I asked him why and he told me that the FA reported that she felt "threatened by my presence and aggressive attitude" and that the GA told him that I had been "beligerent". The Captain then turned on his heel and proceeded to board the aircraft.

Honked off, I demanded of the GA that I be allowed to speak with a supervisor immediately. Several minutes later, after the aircraft was already boarded, a supervisor, Customer Service Manager, and inflight supervisor arrived at the gate. The other two hung back while the Customer Service Manager asked me what happened. As I began to tell her, the GA came up the ramp and whispered in the Customer Service Manager's ear. Manager then asked if I could wait a moment, approached the supervisors and spoke for a moment, then went down the jet bridge.

While Manager was gone, I approached the supervisors for some information, but they both told me that they had been instructed not to talk to me. After about 10 more minutes, Manager re-appeared and asked me what had happened. I told her, and when I got to the part about the captain telling me that the GA said I had been "beligerent", the GA interrupted and told Manager that I had not been and explained that she (the GA) had told the captain that she and I had spoken about the delay and that I had attempted to correct the information that she had been provided. Manager then ordered GA to go back to her duties and I very quickly finished my version of events. "Well," Manager said, "I'm sure you're aware that it not even close to the story the crew gave me." I wasn't sure how I could be aware of that since I was relaying things as I remembered them. Instead of saying that, I asked Manager what they had told her. She refused to tell me anything more.

Manager then turned to the GA, who had finished closing the flight, and asked if I had been re-booked. I interrupted and said that I was not interested in being re-booked, that I just wanted my IDB compensensation and a refund for the remaining segment and that I would be driving home. Manager told me that I was entitled to neither IDB compensation nor a refund. Unsure about the IDB rules, I reminded her that I was on a full F fare. Her response was that it didn't matter since I was already checked in and had not shown up for my last segment on time. Furious, I reminded Manager that I didn't show up at the gate on time because I had been delayed by Northwest Airlines. She told me I wasn't getting any compensation or refund, handed me a boarding pass for the next flight, told me that I was "getting back on [my] original flight and was lucky [I] wasn't going to jail". Manager and the Customer Service Supervisor then disappeared, but not before Manager told the in-flight supervisor that she should not waste any time with me.

GA and In-flight Supervisor, both apologizing profusely, both suggested that I could escalate this issue my filing a TTU, which I did. Upon getting the standard, canned response, I called Customer Care. During this call, I spent about 45 minutes detailing this and the other (see link above) issues with a Customer Care Supervisor who seemed very sympathetic and embarrassed about the conduct of her colleagues. Near the end of our conversation, after I made it clear that I was insisting on IDB compensation, CC Supervisor asked if I would be willing to hold. When she came back on the line, her whole demeanor had changed. She was very abrupt and told me that I was entitled to no compensation, that she was "the last line of escalation you are going to get on this matter" and informed me that the conversation was over.

In my experience, this is the type of behavior exhibited by organizations that know they have done something wrong but are digging their heels in because they fear a huge payout. I have never seriously considered suing anyone before, but I see no other recourse, given the increasingly absurd behavior by the employees of Northwest and their subsidiaries.

So everyone is aware, this occurred last week and I have spent a lot of time since then examining my own behavior to see what I may have done differently. All I have some up with so far is that perhaps I should not have said anything to the gate agent, or perhaps I should have made it clear to the FA that I was not the one who spoke up on the original flight (although that alternative seemed a bit childish at the time).

I would appreciate everyone else's thoughts, especially on whether and how I might escalate this. I don't think I am asking for much, only to be compensated fairly for miserable treatment.

Thank you and may the Lord guide you safely on your travels.

BearX220

Because this all devolves to a game of he-said, she-said, and because the company is now strategizing against you, I don't think there's much you can do. If you sue they'll be able to point to a regulation governing IDB comp that will work against you, and it is still not a capital offense for an airline representative to be nuts.

This incident should serve as a reminder that 10 to 15 percent of all inflight personnel are at least irrational, at most mentally ill, and when they lash out their airline will take their side, not yours. For that reason I never brook unnecessary contact with FAs, etc. I mean, not even eye contact. I just want to get where I'm going without having this kind of psychotic, surreal episode happen to me for no good reason at all.

rrohio

I had almost a similiar incident in DTW just last week with FA and GA on mainline flights
I agree totally with you that NWA FA"S in general their attitudes have deteriorated a lot in the past few months. I am have since switched all my business away from NWA to Delta and AA

motytrah

There could have been a special needs PAX in Y after you deplaned.

Whenever an IDB is in question you should ask for the written IDB policy every gate is required to have for PAX. Make the person point out what terms in the policy they are referring to.

My gut feeling is any compensation that may or may not be due falls outside IDB, and is customer relations. I also doubt this is related to your compass issues.

What was the follow-up from NW on last weeks incident by the way?

DanTravels

And may the Lord guide you meekly and peaceably on yours.

DCAflyer81

I'm sorry, but this story just doesn't really make a whole lot of sense. A few questions I have:

1.) Is the FA who you originally complained about the one that "doused you" with beer? If so, is that person ALSO the same one you had an incident with most recently at DTW?

2.) If the FA's involved are different, are we to assume that FA's trade stories about who complains about them? And then assume that FA's memorize those names to check against an in-flight manifest?

3.) After you complain about an FA, even if an FA is given that name, how likely is it that a particular FA will remember that name or face? I've certainly sent TTU's about bad service, but I would think about stopping that if I knew I'd be blacklisted or otherwise identified. Even "chronic complainers" aren't identified on a manifest, are they?

It just seems like there is more to this story, and so far, we've only heard the one side. Color me confused at this point.

jwlowry

If I decide to move ahead with the lawsuit, it will not involve being involuntarily denied boarding. My cause of action will more likely involve the pattern of deliberately abusive behavior of the agents of Northwest Airlines and its subsidiaries.

I really to not want to do this. However, I think NW believes that I am bluffing and assumes that, like the vast majority of people who have legitimate cases at law, I will be overwhelmed at the thought of the cost of pursuing action against them. However, this is not an issue for me.

jwlowry

1) The FA I originally complained about is part of the same cabin crew of two FAs, the second of whom was the one who doused me with beer.

2) The two FAs on the original two flights (the one about whom I complained and the one who dumped the beer on me) are the same. They appear to take the same assignments. They both work for Compass Airlines. The one who told the Captain of the flight later last week that I made her feel threatened by my presence is not one of the two on the original flights. She is, I believe, a Northwest employee. I don't think she would have had any way to know that I had experienced the prior incidents, at least not through official channels as I am told that "chronic complainers" are not identified on a manifest anywhere, but perhaps there are back channels ways. I hope not, and I think such a thing would be impractical. However, does the possibility exist? Again, I hope not.

3) I was surprised that, when the FA doused me with beer, she would have known I was the person who complained since I am given to understand that the process of getting a complaint back to the FAs takes some time. However, Compass is a much smaller airline and, apparently, these two FAs fly the same route together regularly enough for me to encounter them on the same flight two weeks in a row.

My assumption in all of this is that the first two incidents are related to each other (as indicated by the FAs comments when I got the beer in my lap) and not related to the third (in which I was denied boarding involuntarily). However, given the relationship of these occurrences in time, it makes me wonder. Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean people aren't out to get me.

As an aside, if one uses the term "involuntarily denied boarding" to someone in the airline industry, it is apparently used correctly only in relationship to a flight that is overbooked and for which no volunteers come forward to give up their seats. Even though I was involuntarily [against my wishes, something for which I did not volunteer] denied [not allowed or prevented from doing a thing] boarding [getting on the f'ing plane], I cannot correctly use the term "involuntarily denied boarding" in that situation. Instead, I will endeavor now to say that I was denied boarding involuntarily (silly me, I thought words still had meaning).

DanTravels

Then don't.

Seriously, back down or walk away. Lose the worldview that escalation, bluffing and brinksmanship are viable long-term strategies at all, let alone ones that result in anyone actually "winning" in any way that matters. This is why I referenced the beatitudes.

I have this talk all the time with my kid: if you find yourself in a situation where you can choose to either escalate or not escalate, the right answer is almost always not to.

Sorry for getting all philosophical.

jwlowry

I infer from your implied lesson that I should just drop this, thus being meek and peacable in my actions. @:-) This is something that I have considered and have thus (by starting this thread) asked for suggestions from others. Yours is taken to heart. ^ Thank you.

May God bless and keep you.

avidflyer

If you have the money to fight it then who cares about half the cost of a FC ticket. Do yourself a favor and leave it alone. Move your business elsewhere or blend back in but this is just not worth the hastle. NW could care less about this and even if you win...they will still not care one bit. The only stress spent will be your own.

raehl311

I don't doubt that this particular FA is a problem. I don't even find it entirely outside the realm of possibility that the FA talked the flight captain into denying you boarding from your flight. In any organization, there are going to be some bad apples, but there will also be plenty of good people who will help you out.

But, given your jump to 'I require IDB compensation' and plan to sue NW for 'a pattern of poor treatment', along with generally reading between the lines, I also think that you are self-sabotaging your efforts with a poor approach to the situation. You come across not as having a genuine interest in receiving good service, but instead in making NW pay for mistakes.

There are going to be more good people in an organization than the occasional bad apples. And those good people are just as frustrated by the bad apples as you are. And they're going to want to help you out - unless they feel like you're just another bad apple yourself. And I think your approach here has not endeared you to the people who could help you out.


As for suing NW for a pattern of poor service, all I can say is, good luck getting past summary judgment.

Blank Sheet

FA's can have remarks or notes put on your "permanent" record. I have had FA discuss episodes after they occurred in plain sight of my seat. Most times the conversation starts with them apologizing at which point I let them know that it isn't necessary for them to apologize for the behavior of someone else. This usually leads to a good conversation about life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, basically mean people get their up-comings. On two occasions the FA's did relate that the offenders will have comments put into their records that will follow them when they fly NWA in the future. If this means anything or not, who knows.

fti

I still don't understand how the same FA works on some Compass flights and some mainstream NW flights. I thought they didn't do that.

sxf24

If you are denied boarding for a reason other than an oversold situation, you are absolutely not eligible for IDB.