honestly, i never liked the idea at all.

capitalism is one thing, but keynes really proved the methods that it took to make it work. i don't think keynes would have approved of this one...(though, i'd be more than happy to hear more educated opinions)

"...i don't think keynes would have approved of this one..."

Too bad we can't get him on a FT chat to find out!

I disagree completely. Commercial exploitation means that whatever good deals there are will simply dry up. Miles are not a commodity - I don't think that we want our free trips and upgrades available only to the highest bidder.

I disagree that MileSpy has done anyone a favor - with the exception of those who were too lazy to do the paperwork themselves and were willing to pay a fee of at least $600.

I think that the blame would be to GoldPoints (not ValueMags). ValueMags made money on this, Goldpoints lost money. Which refutes the assertion that "hotels have set up pretty darn tight programs". Its food for thought whether or not we want to kill the golden goose.

I want no part of the debate over the ethics of Milespy.

I am however, extremely curious to hear if Matthew is having problems with points posting and subsequently being reduced like the rest of us are.

PG: I always enjoy it when you disagree with me, because you do it so well

OTOH, I do agree with your premise that miles should NOT be a commodity. To clarify, I think that this program made the mistake of allowing the points to become a commodity, and that this is an abject lesson for other loyalty programs as to why they should pay careful attention to their rules to keep this from happening. This experince also proves that once that mistake is made, natural market forces will come into play.

kokonutz: which is why i brought up keynes. he understood that natural market forces alone are not sufficient to a prosperous society.

doc: i'll see what i can do about your request...anyone have jo-jo's number?

Thanks, fireflyreaction!

Six months later, with the demise of the GoldPoints program, I find this thread to be interesting reading.

I told you so....



[This message has been edited by travelcoupons (edited 05-09-2002).]

another example of killing the golden goose by piling on way beyond reasonable. We have moderators on the board, how about moderation in taking advantage of promotions and loopholes. The Goldpoints behavior reminds me of the charities (who collect clothes they sell for next to nothing to a for profit thrift store reseller) who call every number in the book every month. Both are examples of using a strip mining mentality to approach what should be handled with a much lighter touch.

I must have missed something. What has happened with Goldpoints?

There is an article in the German magazine DER SPIEGEL.
Bottom line: There are so many miles out - they might become worthless.

http://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/0,1518,195326,00.html

Sorry, in German.

GoldPoints still exists, but Radisson has eliminated its 4-to-1 redemption for miles. You now need to stay at a Radisson property during the previous 12-month period to redeem points at a "special" 8-to-1 ratio. Regular GP members can redeem at 10-to-1.

Furthermore, the number of merchants on the GP site has been reduced drastically. Also, you now earn GPs for Radisson stays per night, rather than per stay. There is also a cap of how many points you can convert to miles annually.

Keep in mind that most of these changes occurred without any or little prior notice on GP's part.

This about sums it up. Did I not mention something?

As many of us have said over and over again, this was a very poorly executed promotion on the part of GoldPoints/Radisson. IF they were worried about the mileage, they very easily could have placed a cap on the number of bonus points earned and thereafter offered only regular points earning.

Also, Radisson is making a mistake in reducing their GoldPoints:Mileage ratio. The Valuemags debacle was a one time error on their part and they can prevent it from happening again. Diluting the current stock of outstanding GoldPoints will only alienate their valuable customers. A better move would have been to dilute GoldPoints earned OUTSIDE the Radisson brand, thereby not harming their customers.

That being said, I doubt this is much of a drop in the bucket to Carlsson travel. We don't know if they even lost money on this promotion. We have *no* idea what they pay for miles but I can guarantee it isn't anywhere close to the .02 that we value them at. Perhaps Randy could weigh in here?


[This message has been edited by kanebear (edited 05-10-2002).]

So this is all just one big coincidence??