Are bloggers ruining Flyertalk????
May 16, 2012, 5:09 am
#496
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: 60137
Posts: 10,498
You're the traveler who wants a clean room and nothing more.
My point: "clean" and other important factors are in the eye of the beholders.
BTW some travelers do more in their hotel rooms than bathe/shower and sleep.
May 16, 2012, 2:17 pm
#497
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Menlo Park, CA, USA
Programs: UA: 1K, HH: Diamond
Posts: 1,330
I don't buy this whole "points are worth as much as you want them to" concept that's used by the bloggers to justify poor redemptions. Points are worth the number of points spent divided by the exact revenue cost of the award redeemed, no more, no less. Any other way of "valuing" miles is just nonsense.
This doesn't mean that one's enjoyment on a trip is proportional to the value per mile, but that doesn't alter the redemption value in economic terms...
This doesn't mean that one's enjoyment on a trip is proportional to the value per mile, but that doesn't alter the redemption value in economic terms...
May 16, 2012, 8:14 pm
#498
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 92
I'm a new FT member who used to read blogs
I used to be a blog reader but some are more self serving than others. Recently there were multiple blogs on the same day writing about an Amex cash back card. A good card, but not a travel card, not a points card. So did the bloggers really come up with the idea for the post or was it (as I suspect) just obligatory coverage of a new referral?
May 16, 2012, 9:17 pm
#499
formerly known as felinaar
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: SEA
Programs: UA Plat, AA Gold, AS MVPG, Hyatt Diamond, Hilton Diamond, SPG Gold
Posts: 612
I used to be a blog reader but some are more self serving than others. Recently there were multiple blogs on the same day writing about an Amex cash back card. A good card, but not a travel card, not a points card. So did the bloggers really come up with the idea for the post or was it (as I suspect) just obligatory coverage of a new referral?
And this is still a great travel deal. By using the Ink Bold in this way, you get 5X Ultimate Rewards points on all spend. Do you know of a card that gives 5X on everything? And Ultimate Rewards points are very valuable for their flexibility. A lot of people wrote about it because it was such a great deal.
May 17, 2012, 12:12 am
#500
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: SEA, but up and down the coast a lot
Programs: Oceanic Airlines Gold Elite
Posts: 20,397
I don't buy this whole "points are worth as much as you want them to" concept that's used by the bloggers to justify poor redemptions. Points are worth the number of points spent divided by the exact revenue cost of the award redeemed, no more, no less. Any other way of "valuing" miles is just nonsense.
This doesn't mean that one's enjoyment on a trip is proportional to the value per mile, but that doesn't alter the redemption value in economic terms...
This doesn't mean that one's enjoyment on a trip is proportional to the value per mile, but that doesn't alter the redemption value in economic terms...
Yes, you get caviar, Johnnie Walker Blue, Bordeaux and fancy menu items. Which are all provided at a pretty large multiple of what you'd pay for the same items at sea level (and arguably taste better there too, since we lose ability to taste food at high altitude and low humidity, otherwise known as an airplane), and are mostly there to signal to you "hey, you're in :-:FIRST CLASS!!!!:-:"
A lot of people in the world don't have the ability or inclination to buy Veblen goods. They don't buy Bugatti Veyrons or SQ Suites tickets. In fact, there's a decent amount of research that indicates that millionaires do NOT go for Veblen goods- it's often people who spend as much as they make who get into the "I must have the fancy car and the first class tickets" status symbol trap that prevents them from accumulating wealth.
And that, simply put, is why some people in this community and in the blogger world think that 3000 AMEX points and $2.50 USD that turn into a $500 coach fare is actually a good deal- because they wouldn't dream of ever shelling out $10,000 or more for :-:FIRST CLASS!!!!:-: when they could pay a child's private school tuition for a year with that money, but they have to pay $500 for plane tickets all the time.
First off, given that Lufthansa group airlines don't generally have availability until close in (two weeks or less), you're talking about leaving a lot to chance (especially since M&M people may be waitlisting for award seats ahead of the Australians who bought a metric tonne of US miles). A lot of us aren't twenty-something aspirational travel porn bloggers/travel consultants who can simply pick up and leave on short notice to go to Singapore for the weekend. Vacations have to be planned for a lot of people with job/family/life commitments, and leaving the exact flights we're taking to less than two weeks in may mean fees for flight changes (assuming we did something like book CA/TG F or LH C waiting for LH F to open up), wasting time on the phone with people who can't seem to give you a consistent answer on what bookings are allowed, and having to take suboptimal routings that make us waste time in very nice rooms in airports (not all of us want to take pictures of the lounges we went to so we can humblebrag about how we were forced to connect through MUC, FRA and ZRH to fly to Asia in first class, and take circuitous routings- some of us want to actually get to where it is we're going).
See? Anyone can play this game.
Anyways, to stumble back towards the thread topic... no, I don't think posting or reading a message board makes you more entitled to a deal than reading a blog (but if you want to go hide and share secrets with only your best buddies, oh well, your call, can't say I blame you). And yes, bloggers are killing deals, and many are obviously self interested in generating cash and link referral revenue. My solution is to use Safari in reader mode and not click the links- plus read the bloggers who are genuinely informative about the industry and travel as well as entertaining, and not just dealing out a mish-mosh of aspirational travel porn and credit card links, plus regurgitated FT posts.
Of course, given that 30 years ago many less miles bought you much more in the way of travel, but no amount of miles back then could have gotten you IFE and the comfort you get in lowly business class now, I don't see the point of whining about the "good old days"- if anything luxury travel is far more accessible now than it was back then. To paraphrase something Auntie Mame might say, we're at a banquet and people would rather complain and starve than dig in. No, we won't see Chateaubriand on JFK-DEN flights again, and the Discover America deal isn't as much fun as it used to be. But things are still pretty good, even if those cursed bloggers are killing deals, and there's an industry of travel consultants competing with me for limited first class redemptions...
May 17, 2012, 3:52 am
#501
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: London
Programs: BA, VS, HH, IHG, MB, MR
Posts: 26,871
Randy posted (in a similar thread on Milepoint) a graph http://milepoint.com/forums/threads/...lepoint.35507/ showing that Boarding Area now has about 40% of the unique readers of FT. Even adding in Points Guy, Frugal Travel Guy and MMS who are not on Boarding Area, you will be below FT's readership. And, since many FT'ers will read at least 1 Boarding Area blog anyway, it raises the question of how many people ONLY read blogs and ignore FT. Perhaps fewer than we think.
The Radisson promo was also interesting in terms of reach. The Country Inn & Suites offer still does not seem to have reached 35k sign-ups, despite many people doing multiples. Yet the Wyndham Discover America deal sold 2k packages in minutes. This may give you a rough and ready figure of, say, 10,000 people who take this stuff seriously!
The Radisson promo was also interesting in terms of reach. The Country Inn & Suites offer still does not seem to have reached 35k sign-ups, despite many people doing multiples. Yet the Wyndham Discover America deal sold 2k packages in minutes. This may give you a rough and ready figure of, say, 10,000 people who take this stuff seriously!
Last edited by Raffles; May 17, 2012 at 4:25 am
May 17, 2012, 5:00 am
#502
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: RDU
Programs: A few
Posts: 5,499
what an excellent post eponymous_coward ^
May 17, 2012, 7:33 am
#503
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: NYC
Programs: JB AA UA HHgold ICplat MRplat UR
Posts: 105
Edit : Was gonna say that 1% is 600 not 6k but I see you've already corrected that.
Keep in mind thought that 90% of people have a FICO score in the lower 700 or below and wouldn't even qualify for all the credit cards being pushed out there, so I doubt the numbers are that high.
Keep in mind thought that 90% of people have a FICO score in the lower 700 or below and wouldn't even qualify for all the credit cards being pushed out there, so I doubt the numbers are that high.
I know of one blogger who has over 60k unique visits per month to the blog website. Chase was offering up to $450 per credit card referral. If only 1% applied for a Chase BA card then you would net 600 applications X $450 referral fee = $270,000 just for that month alone. I do think your numbers are rather conservative.
Usually the credit card companies offer between $100-$450 per referral.
I have earned money from all of the BigCrumbs referrals, DUH. In full disclosure my lifetime earnings are less than $2,100.
Yes, full-time bloggers can deduct all travel expenses, they do get paid in their real names from the affiliate sites and get 1099's at the end of the year. They only have to show a profit in the first 7 years of blogging to prove that it is a business and not a hobby.
For the record, my blog does not have any advertisements and I have a full time job, so I have not been blogging lately. But I do say a lot on twitter.
Usually the credit card companies offer between $100-$450 per referral.
I have earned money from all of the BigCrumbs referrals, DUH. In full disclosure my lifetime earnings are less than $2,100.
Yes, full-time bloggers can deduct all travel expenses, they do get paid in their real names from the affiliate sites and get 1099's at the end of the year. They only have to show a profit in the first 7 years of blogging to prove that it is a business and not a hobby.
For the record, my blog does not have any advertisements and I have a full time job, so I have not been blogging lately. But I do say a lot on twitter.
May 17, 2012, 7:50 am
#504
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: NYC
Programs: JB AA UA HHgold ICplat MRplat UR
Posts: 105
You left out The Lurking (Savvy) Leisure Traveler - one who loves to travel and wants to reap all the benefits of the "Business Traveler" by being creative, reading a lot, relying on the "Travel Insiders" and making acquaintances, without having to deal with the "Ticket Scalpers", and unlike the "Credit Hounds" likes to enjoy life and use their miles to the full potential.
Does this leave me in a league of my own?
Actually, I think 90% of FT'ers fit this bill
As far as the blogger issue; I think the majority of people get excited about the prospect of a good deal regardless if they have use for it or have the discipline to follow through. I wonder how many took advantage of certain deals 'just because' and then left the point/miles sitting there collecting dust.
There's certainly an argument to be made to try and be a bit more discrete about great deals to be shared solely amongst like-minded people, so that the deals last longer for those who can maximize the benefits rather than throwing it out to the general masses which undeniably kills those deals a lot quicker.
JP
Does this leave me in a league of my own?
Actually, I think 90% of FT'ers fit this bill
As far as the blogger issue; I think the majority of people get excited about the prospect of a good deal regardless if they have use for it or have the discipline to follow through. I wonder how many took advantage of certain deals 'just because' and then left the point/miles sitting there collecting dust.
There's certainly an argument to be made to try and be a bit more discrete about great deals to be shared solely amongst like-minded people, so that the deals last longer for those who can maximize the benefits rather than throwing it out to the general masses which undeniably kills those deals a lot quicker.
JP
I think that Flyertalk posters can be broken down into 6 categories:
The Travel Insider- Actually works in a niche of the travel industry as an agent, flight attendant, hotel concierge, etc. Has a working knowledge of the business, but perhaps to his/her disadvantage. Convinced that because they are in the trenches, they know everything there is to know about travel in the same manner that a paralegal at a major firm thinks that they can defend a client on trial for a crime. Always willing to correct others as the “expert” and defend their position, even if it is proven wrong.
The Credit Hound- Accumulates an obscene amount of miles and points by churning credit cards, maximizing benefits and closing them down before the new deal hits. These are always the first people to humblebrag about how high their mileage/points accounts are. To them, the thrill of having a high balance is more appealing than cashing the miles in to actually go somewhere. They are the equivalent of Cameron’s dad and the Ferrari in the movie Ferris Bueller’s Day Off: They simply rub their accounts with a diaper but never drive it. They can also quote you the exact mileage on command.
The Business Traveler- These people are a vocal bunch. They annually travel thousands of miles due to their employment and feel that their 200+ times a year dealing with the TSA makes them an elite bunch. They cannot fathom how people could sit in coach and openly complain if they are unlucky enough not to be upgraded, even though their ticket cost their company 1/10 of the first class price. Why airline don’t have a separate entrance for them to enter the aircraft for their loyalty due to job requirements, we’ll never know. They’ll scoreboard you about staying at exotic locations in plush surroundings without having to ever spend a dime of their own money. We all nod along envious of their status, but grateful that we don’t have to travel to fabulous Omaha, NE weekly for a board meeting to rack it up.
The Lazy Traveler- This is the person that needs everything broken down for them into a fine powder and spoon-fed the information. Using the search function is too cumbersome. You can’t possibly expect them to read an entire thread before asking a question. They need answers, and they need them NOW! If you could just sign up for it and let them pay you back…that’d be great. Be careful with these guys. Once they see a deal and figure out how to send a PM, all bets are off.
The Ticket Scalper- These folks have an interest in travel, and do deals from time to time, but they are really here to drive business to their sites. Like a ticket scalper, they “purchase” all the information from other sources and “sell” it back to the public at an inflated rate. Those referral fees are their convenience charges.
The Lurking Newbie- They don’t fully understand what’s going on here, but it looks exciting. They are the first to post a $2.00 off a roundtrip flight from Walla Walla, WA to Parsippany, NJ only redeemable on the 3rd Tuesday in the year of the Scorpion to feel like they are contributing to the board. They mean well, but the Business Traveler will have none of it…because DYKWIA?!?
The Travel Insider- Actually works in a niche of the travel industry as an agent, flight attendant, hotel concierge, etc. Has a working knowledge of the business, but perhaps to his/her disadvantage. Convinced that because they are in the trenches, they know everything there is to know about travel in the same manner that a paralegal at a major firm thinks that they can defend a client on trial for a crime. Always willing to correct others as the “expert” and defend their position, even if it is proven wrong.
The Credit Hound- Accumulates an obscene amount of miles and points by churning credit cards, maximizing benefits and closing them down before the new deal hits. These are always the first people to humblebrag about how high their mileage/points accounts are. To them, the thrill of having a high balance is more appealing than cashing the miles in to actually go somewhere. They are the equivalent of Cameron’s dad and the Ferrari in the movie Ferris Bueller’s Day Off: They simply rub their accounts with a diaper but never drive it. They can also quote you the exact mileage on command.
The Business Traveler- These people are a vocal bunch. They annually travel thousands of miles due to their employment and feel that their 200+ times a year dealing with the TSA makes them an elite bunch. They cannot fathom how people could sit in coach and openly complain if they are unlucky enough not to be upgraded, even though their ticket cost their company 1/10 of the first class price. Why airline don’t have a separate entrance for them to enter the aircraft for their loyalty due to job requirements, we’ll never know. They’ll scoreboard you about staying at exotic locations in plush surroundings without having to ever spend a dime of their own money. We all nod along envious of their status, but grateful that we don’t have to travel to fabulous Omaha, NE weekly for a board meeting to rack it up.
The Lazy Traveler- This is the person that needs everything broken down for them into a fine powder and spoon-fed the information. Using the search function is too cumbersome. You can’t possibly expect them to read an entire thread before asking a question. They need answers, and they need them NOW! If you could just sign up for it and let them pay you back…that’d be great. Be careful with these guys. Once they see a deal and figure out how to send a PM, all bets are off.
The Ticket Scalper- These folks have an interest in travel, and do deals from time to time, but they are really here to drive business to their sites. Like a ticket scalper, they “purchase” all the information from other sources and “sell” it back to the public at an inflated rate. Those referral fees are their convenience charges.
The Lurking Newbie- They don’t fully understand what’s going on here, but it looks exciting. They are the first to post a $2.00 off a roundtrip flight from Walla Walla, WA to Parsippany, NJ only redeemable on the 3rd Tuesday in the year of the Scorpion to feel like they are contributing to the board. They mean well, but the Business Traveler will have none of it…because DYKWIA?!?
May 17, 2012, 8:10 am
#505
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Berlin
Programs: BA Gold; Accor Plat; IHG Diamond-Amb; Meliá & HH & Marriott Gold
Posts: 5,450
A slightly belated welcome to FT, FreeBird2k. 
Do you have a source for that? I think you're mistaken. The most recent table I saw showed 40% of US consumers at or above 750 and the median at around 720. That was a couple of years ago, so things may well have changed - but not, I suspect, to the extent that your figure suggests.
Or maybe you just like the feel of "90%" when it comes to making sweeping claims.
Do you have a source for that? I think you're mistaken. The most recent table I saw showed 40% of US consumers at or above 750 and the median at around 720. That was a couple of years ago, so things may well have changed - but not, I suspect, to the extent that your figure suggests.
You left out The Lurking (Savvy) Leisure Traveler [...] I think 90% of FT'ers fit this bill
May 17, 2012, 8:27 am
#506
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Dallas, TX
Programs: AA EXP, Marriott LT Titanium, Avis Chairman
Posts: 1,286
This is all well and good until you realize that first class on an airplane is priced and marketed as a Veblen good.
A lot of people in the world don't have the ability or inclination to buy Veblen goods. They don't buy Bugatti Veyrons or SQ Suites tickets. In fact, there's a decent amount of research that indicates that millionaires do NOT go for Veblen goods- it's often people who spend as much as they make who get into the "I must have the fancy car and the first class tickets" status symbol trap that prevents them from accumulating wealth.
And that, simply put, is why some people in this community and in the blogger world think that 3000 AMEX points and $2.50 USD that turn into a $500 coach fare is actually a good deal- because they wouldn't dream of ever shelling out $10,000 or more for :-:FIRST CLASS!!!!:-: when they could pay a child's private school tuition for a year with that money, but they have to pay $500 for plane tickets all the time.
A lot of people in the world don't have the ability or inclination to buy Veblen goods. They don't buy Bugatti Veyrons or SQ Suites tickets. In fact, there's a decent amount of research that indicates that millionaires do NOT go for Veblen goods- it's often people who spend as much as they make who get into the "I must have the fancy car and the first class tickets" status symbol trap that prevents them from accumulating wealth.
And that, simply put, is why some people in this community and in the blogger world think that 3000 AMEX points and $2.50 USD that turn into a $500 coach fare is actually a good deal- because they wouldn't dream of ever shelling out $10,000 or more for :-:FIRST CLASS!!!!:-: when they could pay a child's private school tuition for a year with that money, but they have to pay $500 for plane tickets all the time.
May 17, 2012, 8:58 am
#507
Join Date: Mar 2011
Programs: HHonors, SPG, ClubCarlson, AAdvantage, BA Avios, US Dividend Miles, UA MileagePlus, Delta SkyPesos
Posts: 137
Yeah. When a friend brags about the Corvette in his garage, I bite my tongue when I want to ask about net worth. He also doesn't get how I can "spend so much money" on travel because he "knows" that we are supporting 4 on less money than he makes as a single person. I've tried to explain it, but I get about the same level of interest and understanding as if I were explaining the Mandlebrot Plot to him. It's quite humorous, really. In 20 or so years, he'll be complaining about Social Security not covering enough for him to retire, and I hopefully will be happily retired.
May 17, 2012, 9:11 am
#508
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: NYC
Programs: JB AA UA HHgold ICplat MRplat UR
Posts: 105
My source is not scientific at all (and I flunked math in school). When I checked recently my scores were close to 800 and they had these little graphs showing that I'm above 89% of people who's median score is at around 720-750.
Thanks for the warm welcome
Thanks for the warm welcome
A slightly belated welcome to FT, FreeBird2k.
Do you have a source for that? I think you're mistaken. The most recent table I saw showed 40% of US consumers at or above 750 and the median at around 720. That was a couple of years ago, so things may well have changed - but not, I suspect, to the extent that your figure suggests.
Or maybe you just like the feel of "90%" when it comes to making sweeping claims.
Do you have a source for that? I think you're mistaken. The most recent table I saw showed 40% of US consumers at or above 750 and the median at around 720. That was a couple of years ago, so things may well have changed - but not, I suspect, to the extent that your figure suggests.
Or maybe you just like the feel of "90%" when it comes to making sweeping claims.
May 17, 2012, 9:21 am
#509
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Berlin
Programs: BA Gold; Accor Plat; IHG Diamond-Amb; Meliá & HH & Marriott Gold
Posts: 5,450
Seriously, a score of around 800 is in the top 20% -- I found a graph answering my earlier question here. (With luck that snippet of information will bring me forgiveness for veering off topic.)
May 17, 2012, 9:32 am
#510
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 156
A free and open internet where you restrict the good info to a chosen few?
I see good info posted all over the internet. Not just on FT. Not just on TA. Not just on blogs.
And when I see that info I tend to share it.
It would be great if I could keep all the great deals just for me. But it hardly works that way. Once that info is out there it is out there.
Info available to all? What a radical concept.
I see good info posted all over the internet. Not just on FT. Not just on TA. Not just on blogs.
And when I see that info I tend to share it.
It would be great if I could keep all the great deals just for me. But it hardly works that way. Once that info is out there it is out there.
Info available to all? What a radical concept.