Jake Gittes

I mean I can't say I completely disagree with the pretense of this thread; deals have indeed been harder to score thanks to seemingly instantaneous distribution of deals. However I defy you to find any type of popular information that isn't disseminated instantaneously across the web these days.

My observation is not so much that FlyerTalk is being ruined per se; my observation is that our whole culture and the distribution of information have changed even in the past 5 years, and that's not limited to FlyerTalk, MilePoint, travel bloggers, etc, etc, etc. We've just got to learn to both adjust and live with it. That's all there is to it.

ma91pmh

interestingly i saw both sides recently. several bloggers took the second hand flyertalk info about the extra 10k on ink bold and promptly ruined the deal for everyone. on the other hand frequent miler has been blogging hard on the nuance of leveraging the recent sears 15 wn rr points der dollar spend at sears. the ft thread on same topic is bereft of any info and nobody had rwally picked up on the opportunity. one can easily see the huge value add of creative thinking vs read-copy-blog brigade

also the issue with the read-copy-blog brigade is they creates "deal runs". because the info is pushed out en-masse at one time (and frequenty "forwarded" through the hat tipping copies) then deals get set upon all at once. wheras ft info is more on a pull basis, so stuff naturally gets used over a longer time. the example above is a classic case.... chase likely got swamped with calls around the same time, enough to rock the boat and screw the deal. i would venture the same number of people could ave ultimately profited from the deal had those calls been spread out over time and it may not have been shut down

IMH

One consequence is likely to be a steady refinement of the way offers are targetted. We saw an example of this (albeit not perfectly executed) with BA and Chase offering the most attractive Visa deal to people purchasing a BA ticket.

Others are likely to follow suit, for example by limiting bargain redemption offers to programme members with status or restricting points-to-miles transfer bonus deals and "Daily Getaway" type promotions to people who've held a particular credit/charge card for at least xx months.

RooseveltL

I don't think one can blame bloggers as the flying audience and increased availability of data/information by increases public knowledge.

If you think back pre-PDA days the ability to read live information while sitting at an airport, flight delay or hotel bar required an Internet connection and a laptop. Today - an alert or notification or app - can advise of a specific keyword prompting tons of viral communication on something really cool without cost or time from a regular shopper.

I compare this to hotel or airline reviews - 10 yrs ago there was maybe 1-2 sources for reviews and today the hotels even host their own review content vs. Google vs. TripAdvisor vs. etc. etc. etc. At this point it is information overload.

The bloggers probably existed years ago but now have a significantly wider/larger audience.
I compare this to marathons - 10-15 yrs ago it was economical and everyone had etiquette whereas now we have the Oprah & Biggest Loser runners which not only increase price for everyone but decrease the fun due to their inexperience.

gregorygrady

Wow, I haven't logged into FT since the day I wrote this thread as I've been quite busy lately. It seems this thread certainly gained some steam while I was gone!!!!! Took me forever just to read through the whole thread!!!!

In fact, I thought of a brilliant idea while spending all that time reading through the thread. Some enterprising person should read through all FT posts, cull it down into a quick summary for those of us that are too lazy/busy to read everything, and post it elsewhere, maybe on their own blog. Maybe throw in a few credit card referral links, and they could make some money out of it...................oh wait...........

Anyways, after reading through all the posts, I can honestly see both sides view. I still believe that bloggers are ruining many of the good deals on FT, but I certainly do see the other point of view that they provide a needed service. It would just be nice if they could use just a bit more discretion in what they post when there is a good chance that they will virtually kill a good deal almost immediately upon posting about that deal. That does no good for anybody, not the people they ruined it for, nor the blog readers that also don't get in on it save for the quickest few that jumped on the deal before it was axed. Anyways, this thread was some interesting reading, glad I could stimulate a good discussion on FT, and hopefully this thread makes some bloggers think twice before posting killable deals.

However, I STILL think it would be smart of us FTers to figure out a way to get the credit card referrals out of the bloggers pockets and back into our pockets. That might eliminate the huge glut of newbie bloggers just in it for referral money, and at the same time would give us a nice chunk back for our credit card signups. I am saddened that the FTer who was offering a 50% kickback for credit card applications was shut down. That certainly would have been a way nice to accomplish this.

But for all the rest of you FTers, you/we are a smart bunch, I challenge you to come up with a way to divert the credit card referral money back into our own pockets!!!!!! Be creative, brainstorm, think up a way, please. ^

gregorygrady

LOL, this is the single most ironic post in this whole thread IMHO. The very next day after TPG made this blog post, IHG/Priority Club proceeded to devalue the "Cash & Points" trick that TPG pumped in his post by almost 20%. This case illustrates my point perfectly. People who read and post in the FT IHG/PC Forum and stay at their hotels know this loophole and use it. Why does everybody in the world need to be made aware of it? Doing so just kills the loophole that much quicker as it is obviously unsustainable that everybody in the world can buy PC pts for 0.6cpp and then use them to stay at any IC worldwide for $240. So PC has to step in and do something about it. First they devalue their award chart so now many ICs cost 50k pts. Then they go and raise the price of their C&P to further erode that loophole.

But I thank you DrSifu for illustrating my exact point of the OP with a working example when in fact you thought you were trying to make the exact opposite point. ^^^

bmvaughn

BRB, gotta start a blog...

3recondoc

"Thats not true at all most of the best offers and deals have come from here"


Well then I stand corrected.

Could you post one?

Some great offer that started with FT and only FT and did not come via Marriott, Hilton, United, etc?

gregorygrady

You make a very good point above. It is likely the bum rush of people all at once that cause the companies to sit up and notice that they have improperly valued their deal (thus created a loophole), whereas the slow dribble of people taking advantage of the deal via FT would not cause the same company to notice or even care. This bum rush caused by the bloggers seems to be very similar to the "FatWallet effect" where deals get shut down almost immediately once posted about (and exploited by trillions of FWers).

tjbrooks

I think a glut of newbie bloggers might be a solution to your problem. They'll spread the referral money thinner and thinner. There used to be two or three bloggers making money from referrals. Now it's hard to count them all. If I want to apply through a referral, I now have to choose between like six or seven (deserving) people. And there are dozens more.

It seems to me the number of those offering referrals has grown exponentially, while the potential applicants have grown linearly, all while the average referral$-per-app is declining. I sure hope the handful of bloggers who went full-time didn't project growth with their credit card referral money.

I'm no business expert, but I believe the cash kickback approach brings in less-engaged customers/higher turnover. Do you remember the Chase UR Mall error with Stamps.com? Plus your 50% method exposes the referral rates, which most businesses would like to keep or be contractually bound to be keep private/proprietary. It's pretty clear after a few attempts have failed that isn't what the credit card companies want.

FederalFlyer

Although I may not be the FTer you're referring to, I did make this very post and it was quickly deleted. Perhaps it was seen as advertising. I've given it some further though since then, but:

While this may be accurate, my bigger concern is that it might not be possible to know and verify who was approved through your link in order to reward them the kick back.

ingy

1. it is clearly against the affiliated marketing company rules to "kickback anything"

2. We have no way of knowing who has been approved or not, and quite frankly none of a bloggers business who gets approved and who gets rejected.

fragment54

Also, kicking back would cause competition to dramatically cut into the bloggers' profits... don't expect the more developed bloggers to say anything good about giving something back.

FederalFlyer

I've not read each of the T&Cs of each of the very numerous CC affiliate programs out there to confirm or dispute this assertion. However, cash back and miles portals can split (or completely give up) their commission for sales through their portal directly to the consumer. So it seems reasonable to believe that credit card sites could similarly split commissions with the consumer.

This is what I suspected.

Well, obviously it would be a blogger's business who gets approved if the business model was to split the commission with approved persons.



+1. See above.

mooper

This thread boils down to one thing: jealousy. Some bloggers innovated by making information sharing more efficient. In the process, some old techniques were weakened because they aren't as efficient. That helped many, hurt some. The bloggers made money by capitalizing on their innovations. Good for them. Technology progresses everywhere, and creative destruction results. There are certainly people who did well through both legitimate and illegitimate means when VHS tapes and DVDs were the dominant means of sharing video. Now that streaming is dominant, the increased efficiency helps many, but hurt those old school folks. Just as it makes no sense to fight against streaming technology, hoping to turn back time, nor is it logical to be jealous of and rally against clever bloggers.

I registered a domain, intending to launch a blog a couple years ago as a fun side project (different niche than what is most common now - less focus on travel and credit cards, more on deals and tricks in general), but was too busy with other things. I will be launching it soon, but I realize that I probably missed out on the big blog explosion. I'm not jealous - I'm thrilled to see what others have accomplished, and you'll never hear me whine that I long for the days when things were simpler just because I didn't gain from the gold rush.