jeautk01

I know its not a perfect system, but what you have know is essentially broken. The spirit of the board openly sharing tips and tricks and everybody working together is gone. I think you could easily police begging for likes by mods (if someone does that you suspend them first time and up the penalty going forward).

jeautk01

I agree. I think the big lie that bloggers put forward is that for leisure flyers points are worth anything close to 2cpm. They never talk about the downside such as award availability or routing. You have a pretty deep understanding to get a 2 cpm return that involves a class of service you would normally buy and destinations or routes you would choose. Saying you just spent 100,000 miles to get a $8000in flight is ridiculous b/c you wouldn't pay that normally. Most people would do better booking the cheapest possible flight and using the Fidelty card to get 2% and maximizing the category bonuses on Discover and Freedom. Now for business owners and flyers that pay out of their own pocket yes you can get 2cpm and possibly even more, but 99 out of 100 bloggers are targeted at the leisure side of it. AS for card churning which is 90% of the bloggers focus you can get pretty good returns but even if you max out the cards, the infinite days of apps are pretty much over, there is a limit to miles from bonuses (admittedly its a lot of miles, but the blogs present it as endless)

I do believe there are some really good bloggers out there.^

srdshelly

You make valid points, and I'm constantly asking myself whether I'd be better off just using a 2% cashback card whenever I'm not meeting a spend requirement for a big bonus. The calculation of the value of redemptions has so many variables, though. I redeemed 60,000 miles for tickets that United offered to me for cash for $9,000. There's no way I'm valuing my redemption at 15 cpm, since I'd never pay that much for the tickets. Yet it's a trip I very much am excited to be taking, and would not be able to if the miles didn't make it possible. So the fact that the miles can be used for it makes them worth significantly more than 2 cpm to me (I would without hesitation pay over $1,200 in cash). One thing that makes a true valuation difficult is that there is no way to determine what I actually theoretically would pay in cash, because that trip could never be available for cash in my price range. It really does depend on what types of redemptions one makes.

2mg

ruining Flyer Talk -

balima

Ok, I have actually read the entire thread before posting and have to admit that both sides make some compelling arguments. But, something has to be said for actually doing some of your own work. How many times have there been threads started with "What should I do with my xxx miles?". Really, if you have to ask why did you get them in the first place? Give them to me, I have no problem thinking of dozens of ways to spend them. The blogs sometimes attract people that jump into what they are told is a good deal without really understanding the value of what they have bought. They then come to FT and ask what they should do with their booty. Many people are just shopping for a good deal, regardless of what that deal may entail. They remind me of people who buy things on sale just because it is a good price, not because they actually need or want the item. Then they have to figure out what to do with the item (usually becomes some white elephant xmas or birthday gift to someone).

I too have extolled the virtues of FT to many friends who just want me to spoon feed them info and do the work for them. I even had one person who wouldn't even try to figure out how to get Priority Club points out of their coke rewards and wanted step by step instructions. I won't spoon feed anymore. I direct people toward the correct web site and tell them to read.

I know we were all noobs once. But, if someone wants something that is actually of value to them, I believe a little effort is not too much to ask.

JimLtravels

I have been watching this thread for a while. Good and interesting conversation.
Change may or may not always be for the better. Regardless, it is one of the few things we can count on to remain constant. While many of us, myself included, are more sometimes more comfortable with the way things were, they never stay that way forever. We have to adapt and move on. The world of travel/miles and points bloggers is here and now we have to accept it and move on. Irrespective of whether they add or subtract value, it is a fact of life that they are here now. They do have the opportunity to increase the value of miles and points, for the hotels and airlines. Maybe we will have a trickle down benefit. (HMMM sounds like a republican argument) Time to move along

Tiki

There are bloggers who use the technique of sensationalist journalism to attract readers--all with a view of sucking them in and getting them to click on the credit card referrals. Promoting "Free Travel" isn't always "free". The miles and points game does require self-discipline, good budgeting skills and lots of time and sometimes a gamble of money. You gamble if the airline is still going to be around when you want to redeem your points or won't merge with an airline that has less attractive redemptions or get kicked out of their alliance. There are no guarantees in this game and you have to be prepared to take the risks.

One could argue that the credit card bonuses are "free" and they can be IF you pay your bill off in full every month and don't accrue interest, if you don't mess up your credit score so you can't finance a house or car when you need one and don't get over your head into debt. Of course by the time you are hopelessly in debt, the blogger has taken their commission and is laughing all the way to the bank. These things need to be carefully thought through and not done on impulse.

There are other ways to get cheap hotels besides the miles and points games and if your travel profile is mostly domestic USA for leisure or family trips to see grandma, you are probably better off with Priceline. People are getting everything from Days Inn to Marriott and you can choose what level you bid on. http://biddingfortravel.yuku.com/for...s#.T675u9lRySo

If some people crunch the numbers especially on domestic USA trips, they will probably find that they are better off buying the the cheapest ticket on Expedia and using the UR mall or a cash-back card to do so.

Where some bloggers are failing both their readers and the FTers who do know how to play the game well is that they fail to point these out and have blown miles and points up to a level that can't be sustained by the average person. If you want to travel during holiday/peak periods, unless you can plan almost a year in advance, you will probably end up having to pay for your ticket as FF availability won't be there.

Rome wasn't built in a day and neither was the collective wisdom on FT yet there are people who want everything handed to them on a silver platter but only a few will ever go on to the level of expertise that truly maximizes the value of miles and points--and the ones who do will be the ones that stick around and put time and effort into learning everything for themselves.

jeautk01

Exactly!

I think priceline and hotwire are two areas most bloggers overlook because there is no payback for them. Also, a lot of status hounds ignore them b/c they want the biggest and best room possible so they generally overpay for a room to get upgrades or free breakfast. I have found that if I just save the money from the other room nights that aren't important and spend it on those upgrades I come out ahead far ahead.

Usually, but no one wants to talk about it because that's no fun.

Most bloggers fall in to this category and should have disclaimers (like some do about the referral links) that the miles for a trip which they trumpet with a fawning trip report came from referrals or money generated off the website instead of what the average person could achieve. Most bloggers burn rate would far exceed what they could achieve. However, the perception they give to the average person is that this is normal.

balima

I often feel this way when I read thread bragging of how someone "new to the game" is getting 500K a year in credit card points. They sound like this level of point accumulation will go on indefinitely. Eventually the average person will hit a brick wall with this level of hits on their credit score. Eventually the cardinals will put a stop to their churning. Instead of going for the long haul many are going for the heavy short haul. They are entranced with tales of drinks before take off and exotic locales. Not that these aren't possible. But they aren't reminded that the tortoise actually won the race.

That's why also reading and learning instead of spoon feeding is the better route to go. Learning the value of miles and points and how they all interrelate takes time. Kind of like the old adage - give a man a fish and he eats for one day. Teach a man to fish and he eats for a lifetime. Those of us who read, share and learn will stay in this game for the long haul. Eventually, those that don't know how to use those points will give up in frustration because they can't find the direct flight they want on specific dates and be forced to use standard awards.

84fiero

+1 (And not just bloggers but many who dispense advice here on FT as well.)

Nowhere in most of their advice is their any thought given to planning strategically into the future, considering what their travel goals are, or what their longterm sustainable mileage earn rate might be.

The big CC bonuses are great but won't last forever, especially with airline merges, a few banks gathering up most of the airline co-branded cards, and much more difficulty in churning on a regular basis. Maybe some folks just want to set up for one or two "trips of a lifetime" and this is fine for them. But I think a lot of readers are getting set up for future disappointment if they want to keep up the game and don't understand the big picture.

I guess part of it is our culture nowadays, too - just thinking of the instant gratification of the moment and not planning strategically.

seaflyguy

+1

Valuing redemptions is by its very nature subjective. I consider my use of 270K miles for two $12K SEA-FRA-SEA seats in LH F to be an excellent value. That might change if my wife and I had small children traveling with us (we won't), or if my accumulation of points slowed and we wanted to maximize our number of overseas trips (it might). I don't begrudge anyone their calculation of what FF points are worth; I just want them to acknowledge that the calculation can't be done objectively for all people.

chris1234

They should also have disclaimers that the amount of upgrades and great customer service they get, is not the norm and partly due to the fact that airlines/hotels of course want to please them so that they write favourable reviews...

christian

balima

oh absolutely! There was a time when I was a stay at home mom and we used miles for trips to grandma and Dizzyworld. Going on vacation for the least $$ was the most important. We went on age appropriate vacations with balima jr and were happy. I can't put a value on the face of my then 5 yr old, looking into the eyes of Cinderella and saying "Mommy, she's real". In a month we will take balima jr and a friend to Europe for two weeks as a graduation gift - business class.

Values change. As far as I am concerned it is not always about cpm, but the value I put on the situation at the time.

jonnydoe1234

The ridiculous cents per mile valuations are not just limited to flights. I can't stand seeing a blogger claim that they got a room valued at $1000 for 20K points, then claim that each point was worth 5 cents, when they'd never pay $1000 for the room. It's even more egregious when you can get that same room for $200 on priceline, or when a room across the street at another nice, but perhaps not as plush, hotel goes for $100 on priceline. I have trouble finding good uses for hotel points precisely because I can often find reasonably priced rooms in my destination, while comparable award rooms would cost an insane number of points.

I also don't really understand the obsession that some bloggers have with hotel rooms. My view is that if you're doing much more than sleeping and showering in your hotel room, you're missing the point of the vacation. I expect a certain level of cleanliness, but that's about it.

CodeAdam10

To me, luxury and the star-level of hotels matter significantly. When I was younger the Inn's and Express and such were just fine, but taste matures with traveling and age. Sure I wouldn't pay upwards $700+ for a Ritz, FS, or PH on a 3-day family getaway where we need (2) rooms a night, BUT it is good to have the peace of mind knowing I can do such thing for special occansions / trips using a currency other than cash. Priceline works, I'm a huge fan for over 12 years now, but sometimes you just need a specific hotel to create a specific experience - something which PL can't offer. But if you can tell me the secret of Naming My Own Price for a specific hotel, I'll split some of my savings with you for an upcoming 6 night stay that I had to book with cash!