New trend in cost-cutting? Company paid travel = company miles?
Oct 11, 2010, 11:35 pm
#76
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Tucson
Programs: AA - Gold, SPG - Gold, HHonors - Gold
Posts: 134
I work for a large gov contractor company - 80 000 employees plus in the US, and 6 months ago we moved to the cheapest carrier, and cheapest hotel(based on rank within the company), and of course no miles/points for either. That was a big hit, a lot complained, some left, but no changes. It looks like it will be adopted everywhere pretty soon.
Oct 12, 2010, 6:23 am
#78
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New York suburbs
Posts: 4,211
Ha ha, well, if you go on certain major highways in the NY metro area, you'll see, especially late at night, tractor trailers parked on the shoulder, hazard lights blinking, engine idling. In the Midwest and South you'll see a row of tractor trailers at the edges of Motel 6 parking lots. I asked the truckers about it. They, and the Motel 6 counter clerks overhearing us, said that Motel 6 in rural areas caters to truckers with affordable rates. There are no Motel 6s in most of the NY metro area. Paying for a more expensive hotel would cut into their profits, so instead the truckers find a relatively safe place to pull over and sleep in the back of their vehicle.
Come to think of it, theoretically companies could ask their traveling employees to do something like that, too.
Come to think of it, theoretically companies could ask their traveling employees to do something like that, too.
Oct 12, 2010, 6:58 am
#79
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: IAD
Programs: united, american, alaska
Posts: 1,782
My company experimented with trying to make employees turn over ff miles to the company back around 25 years ago. They backed off quickly when they figured out that the money saved was minimal compared to the cost of keeping track of the miles. It also probably helps that some of our senior leaders travel quite frequently.
We do have a policy requiring the cheapest non-stop non-red-eye flights. Some people have tried to point out that things like exemption from baggage fees can make a slightly pricier flight on a preferred airline cheaper, but that hasn't played well. We also have corporate rates for some of our most common routes and negotiated rates at hotels which are frequent destinations.
We do have a policy requiring the cheapest non-stop non-red-eye flights. Some people have tried to point out that things like exemption from baggage fees can make a slightly pricier flight on a preferred airline cheaper, but that hasn't played well. We also have corporate rates for some of our most common routes and negotiated rates at hotels which are frequent destinations.
Oct 12, 2010, 7:02 am
#80
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: LIS/ATL/other
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Posts: 1,983
But seriously, giving a thought from the corporate side, there shouldn't be any reason for say ACME Corp to create its own AAdvantage number like ACMECORP, with travel industry IT reservations to be made under that company name and ACMECORP AAdvantage number, even though the person flying is Regional Sales Manager John Doe.
Right now the reservation systems are simple:
Name: John Doe
Miles/Points: [number of John Doe's account]
Corporations are people too now so IT systems can easily change to:
Name: John Doe
flying on the behalf of: Acme Corp.
Miles/Points: ACMECORP account number
[IF 'flying on the behalf of field' = entry, THEN Miles/Points cannot be changed]
Right now the reservation systems are simple:
Name: John Doe
Miles/Points: [number of John Doe's account]
Corporations are people too now so IT systems can easily change to:
Name: John Doe
flying on the behalf of: Acme Corp.
Miles/Points: ACMECORP account number
[IF 'flying on the behalf of field' = entry, THEN Miles/Points cannot be changed]
While it would s*ck to lose the miles flown on company money, it would open up a whole new market: people flying and earning miles for others. I could finally get someone else to fly my MRs. I could probably offer the Kettles, who will never accrue enough miles for a free domestic trip and don't value miles at all, an incentive (say, $20 off at Denny's) to fly on behalf of Captain Miles on their trip to Florida. Think of the opportunities!
Oct 12, 2010, 10:02 am
#81
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: LAX
Programs: AA EXP 1.5MM, Asiana Club Silver, KE Morning Calm, Hyatt Platinum, Amtrak Select
Posts: 7,161
It may not be so bad to fly "on behalf of".
While it would s*ck to lose the miles flown on company money, it would open up a whole new market: people flying and earning miles for others. I could finally get someone else to fly my MRs. I could probably offer the Kettles, who will never accrue enough miles for a free domestic trip and don't value miles at all, an incentive (say, $20 off at Denny's) to fly on behalf of Captain Miles on their trip to Florida. Think of the opportunities!
While it would s*ck to lose the miles flown on company money, it would open up a whole new market: people flying and earning miles for others. I could finally get someone else to fly my MRs. I could probably offer the Kettles, who will never accrue enough miles for a free domestic trip and don't value miles at all, an incentive (say, $20 off at Denny's) to fly on behalf of Captain Miles on their trip to Florida. Think of the opportunities!
Here's an example of ANA's Family Account Service: http://www.ana.co.jp/wws/sg/e/wws_co...fa/member.html
1. Up to eight members of a family within 2nd degree can be pooled together
2. Annual registration "fee" is only 1000 mi per year
3. So if dad pays for his parents-in-laws' flight to visit their grandkids, dad will be the one earning the miles, not his in-laws; ensuring him that his family will be a bit closer to a nice vacation for putting up with his in-laws' visits that he's paying for
"Hi mom and dad <silent sigh>; listen I got the tickets for you, but there's a catch; the cheapest one that I could find has this weird DEN-SLC-SFO-LAX route; you wouldn't mind taking that, would you?"
Last edited by kebosabi; Oct 12, 2010 at 10:24 am
Oct 12, 2010, 11:54 am
#82
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Los Angeles
Programs: Hyatt, Hilton, Marriott // WN, AA, BA, UA, AS // Avis
Posts: 1,314
My company has this policy and no one has ever complained.
Employees fly Southwest, use Avis car rental, stay @ Holiday Inns. This is a policy made clear to all employees at time of hiring (or prior to starting regular travel).
All points and rewards accrued go towards redemption for future flights/hotel stays. It has saved the company thousands of dollars annually on travel costs.
Also:
1) Employees still gets the benefit of being A-List and also companion pass, which benefits them personally.
2) Employees still get benefit of Avis car upgrades for personal rentals (and also are allowed to use corporate rate for personal rental).
3) Employees still get benefits of Platinum tier for personal stays at any IC hotel.
Granted, its a small company and we only have about 6 people who travel, but its worked out well for both sides, IMO.
Employees fly Southwest, use Avis car rental, stay @ Holiday Inns. This is a policy made clear to all employees at time of hiring (or prior to starting regular travel).
All points and rewards accrued go towards redemption for future flights/hotel stays. It has saved the company thousands of dollars annually on travel costs.
Also:
1) Employees still gets the benefit of being A-List and also companion pass, which benefits them personally.
2) Employees still get benefit of Avis car upgrades for personal rentals (and also are allowed to use corporate rate for personal rental).
3) Employees still get benefits of Platinum tier for personal stays at any IC hotel.
Granted, its a small company and we only have about 6 people who travel, but its worked out well for both sides, IMO.
Oct 12, 2010, 12:39 pm
#84
Join Date: May 2010
Location: NY
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Posts: 25
I can't imagine this catching on. Obviously, each particular case (company and employee) is different, but in overwhelming majority of cases the miles are worth much more to the traveler than to the company (and they are tax free). This is the way airlines set it up, and that's the way they want it.
These days managers are under pressure to come up with cost-cutting schemes, so the dumber ones sometimes will go after perks that are clearly positive sum. I doubt it could become a trend.
These days managers are under pressure to come up with cost-cutting schemes, so the dumber ones sometimes will go after perks that are clearly positive sum. I doubt it could become a trend.
Oct 12, 2010, 12:41 pm
#85
FlyerTalk Evangelist
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if this were made clear to me at the time of hiring then i guess i would have no reason to complain afterwards....but i would definitely not be happy with this policy if they told me after i was hired & before i started my regular travel....
Oct 12, 2010, 1:14 pm
#87
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Los Angeles
Programs: Hyatt, Hilton, Marriott // WN, AA, BA, UA, AS // Avis
Posts: 1,314
I would agree that if a person has racked up "X" miles/points and suddenly the company tries to claim them as company property, that would be a major issue.
In my company's particular example, the employees understand that the savings incurred by using the travel rewards for company redemption is a major contributing factor to the company's continuing success in this economy (if we could not get the thousands of $ in savings, our travel budget would be severely slashed, and employees probably would be laid off).
Different for each company, but at least in my example, its worked out to the mutual benefit of both sides.
Oct 12, 2010, 1:21 pm
#88
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even if it was told to me verbally i would accept it & move on....but like i said, i would definitely be pi$$ed if they told me after i was hired & just before i started my travel....
Oct 12, 2010, 1:37 pm
#89
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Cary, NC, USA - AA Plt 3mm/DL Dia 2mm, Hil/Dia Life, Bonvoy/Titanium Life, Spire
Posts: 3,261
The rule I live by is the golden rule...I don't expense anything that would end up costing my employer or the client anything additional. I will fly the awkward times for a first class upgrade, stay at out-of-the-way hotels and change hotels constantly for stay benefits, even using RoomSaver.com coupons, but it is just costing me personally, mainly my time. I do this to keep the benefits and not compromise my comfort level. I will not stay in a luxury hotel, but neither will I stay in a Motel 6. My expense statement may sometimes look odd, but everything is justifiable in keeping costs to the minimum but not sacrificing my quality of road life. If my employer changes rules to control the excesses and abuses that occur in travel expenses, I will go along until it I lose choices. I can currently pick my airline, rental car and hotel. If I lose this control, I'll probably look elsewhere for a job.
I am supposed to use AVIS when possible. I generally do, but I don't use my company's AWD all the time. It has a very low daily rate, but gets zero ff miles and we are capped at 125 miles per day before mileage charges kick in. I occasionally use a different AWD with unlimited miles that will get me 3000 bonus miles if I know I will exceed that mileage cap during my travel. I rent a small car when I do this. This is a win-win in keeping the cost as low as possible but still getting some benefit at doing so.
As a cost cutting measure, my current employer dropped per diem last month and we are now to expense all meals. I will no longer stuff my face at the hotel manager's receptions, but now eat decent meals at moderately priced restaurants. Previously, it was cheap eats. So the benefit is healthier food, but now I am going to spend up to the previous per diem amount (e.g. 4 new rewardsnetwork restaurants last week for >2500 AA bonus miles) I am now getting used to tablecloths.
As we all start seeing travel cutbacks and choice limitations in our travel, we all need to determine if we can cope, otherwise the other option is to leave. I am showing with the examples above how I am coping with the changes.
-outoftown
I am supposed to use AVIS when possible. I generally do, but I don't use my company's AWD all the time. It has a very low daily rate, but gets zero ff miles and we are capped at 125 miles per day before mileage charges kick in. I occasionally use a different AWD with unlimited miles that will get me 3000 bonus miles if I know I will exceed that mileage cap during my travel. I rent a small car when I do this. This is a win-win in keeping the cost as low as possible but still getting some benefit at doing so.
As a cost cutting measure, my current employer dropped per diem last month and we are now to expense all meals. I will no longer stuff my face at the hotel manager's receptions, but now eat decent meals at moderately priced restaurants. Previously, it was cheap eats. So the benefit is healthier food, but now I am going to spend up to the previous per diem amount (e.g. 4 new rewardsnetwork restaurants last week for >2500 AA bonus miles) I am now getting used to tablecloths.
As we all start seeing travel cutbacks and choice limitations in our travel, we all need to determine if we can cope, otherwise the other option is to leave. I am showing with the examples above how I am coping with the changes.
-outoftown
Last edited by outoftown; Oct 12, 2010 at 1:43 pm