ag2000

Spirit has nothing to do with tricks so it would be considered OT for this thread. There are more appropriate areas on FT for that discussion....

ag2000

The best way to lift the restriction is to contribute more to the thread - so you will reach minimum post count by making useful posts.
What would be the best way for newbies to contribute to the thread?

Finding FD candidates - low base fares/high YQ itineraries and posting them here. (If itinerary is not tricked yet - no need to code it - unless it is clear error fare).

Bonus information : Investigating fare rules for the candidate itinerary and suggesting which ones are favorable for dumping (slightly advanced topic, but still good for newbies as it is easy to learn / find info about).

amunra

Thanks for the pointers. The fare rules I posted was from the JNB-HKG fare discussed a few pages before. Looks like the fare is available but has increased a few Euros. The same kind of fare is available from NBO also.

There are some good base fares from places like AMS,VIE,MUC,CDG to BKK. YQ is not that high but still high enough that the AI price would make this worthwhile for travelers in C2.

mx781

Might as well take up the suggestion of posting low BFs...
LGA-MXP on *A with a YQ of 412e.
Rules suggest a 1x/3x on UA/AC in area 1 or any alliance member in area 2.
How well does this fare bode?

trapped

The strategy for finding 3x's is fairly simple with ITA, but the 1x is significantly more difficult since you often actually have to fly it. Are 1x's fairly straightforward on ITA or is an OTA easier to use?

Epicura

Excusez-moi? Nice advice your are giving here to fellow-newbies . Nomen est omen ???


Depends, some tricks are OTA specific and the majority of the best ones are not even ITAble. As is already stated on every 20 pages of this thread. Likewise for the fact that you can not skip a 1x.

Steve_Kenyon

Some dumps are OTA-specific, some dumps only seem to appear on ITA and can't be priced on any OTA you'd feel comfortable booking with. Generally, I don't think ITA alone will get you the best deals, especially with the recent changes to their system. Sometimes, searching using 1x's on ITA will give you some absurdly high prices because it automatically upgrades the booking class to Y, whereas doing the same on an OTA will reveal the dump.

WolfvanWeen

On Fare Rules, EOE, OTA/ITA and similar. And if you find a mistake in any of this, please don't hesitate to correct me. All of this is know-how derived from my own investigations, and I might have overlooked a few things:

I. The combinability section of Fare Rules will never tell you whether YQ/YR will be dumped or not, it only tells you what combinations are allowed. So in general, if EOE isn't allowed, a 3x won't work, because the travel agency isn't allowed to put a third flight onto the same ticket. But if EOE is possible, that doesn't automatically mean that there is a 3x that will dump. Only that you can add one. Similarly "side trips allowed" opens the possibility for certain constructions, but doesn't guarantee that they dump either (and in my experience that rule is anyway usually ignored)

II. Fare Rules are an attempt to specify an algorithm (a boolean logic) in sequential text. That has two implications:
1. the hierarchy of rules (so easy to depict in a flow chart) needs to be expressed either by sequence (in fare rules usually the more specific ones come first, the more general ones later) or by tabulation (the fewer spaces in front of the line meaning higher in hierarchy); fare rules are using both approaches, making room for redundancy and contradictions. This is IMHO the main reason why there are dumps that work only on certain OTAs. It is simply impossible to transcribe conflicting textual representation correctly into a program, and different programmers choose different implementations.
(side remark: I've also witnessed transcription errors from one GDS to another, so sometimes fare rules on ITA differ from those on EF or KVS, and so different OTAs get different rule input)
2. the more complex such a logic is, the more likely there are mistakes in transcribing it into a program - that's why even when the rules are clear (as in the example given with three EOE rules), it is often possible to find an OTA that didn't get it right and allows a combination that it shouldn't, but when there's only one rule saying EOE not permitted - full stop -, it is unlikely you would find an OTA that doesn't obey that rule.
Therefore whenever you post fare rules, make sure we can see the spacing in front of the lines, too....

III. You cannot buy tickets via ITA. Therefore they can fully concentrate on data and programs, don't have to worry about marketing (promo codes and the like) and not too much about making mistakes in calculating fares. On the other hand their interpretation of the fare rules is usually more exact than that of the OTAs.
That's why you can find dumps on OTA that ITA doesn't "fall" for - usually reported as "the base fare jumped up", what that really means is ITA didn't allow you to combine those flights, instead has chosen other, more expensive ones with more relaxed rules.
But you can also find combinations that are possible but very complex on ITA, which OTAs simply shy away from. They are liable to the airlines for their pricing, so I believe most of them have certain "safety stops" implemented when it gets too weird.

IV. Finally, when more then one airline is involved in a flight (via e-ticketing interline agreements, not talking about simple code-share here), the xTA has to decide which airline should be the plating carrier, i.e. be the one getting all the money for the ticket, and responsible for distributing it among all the carriers. There are so-called IATA rules for that, but it turns out that these are also not foolproof, and most of all not rules but only recommendations.
Therefore, again, different OTAs and ITA might choose different plating carriers. Makes all the difference in the world for calculating fares.

Hope that helps with some of the basics. A very long answer to the short question whether "better to use ITA or an OTA" ;-)

encryptiontricks

hi!

checked this thread for a long time and I just want to update you about a fare I assume you want to dumb a bit more.

Clue 1) scandinavian capital
clue 2) L-H from one of their "biggest" airports in g-e-r-ma-n-y
clue 3) Booked as a higher fare than eco-nomy
clue 4) west co-ast usa, big air-port
clue 5) was in mars, now gone.
clue 6) ~ 1000 usd lower than normal "fare"

Is this "ok" coding?

hellosweets

Regarding my OZ diamond post. at the moment for remaining 13hours it's possible to get *G for 98.6 EUR. Of course if you know the routing, OTA, and have enough time.

fedecorsi

Very very useful, thank you!!!

jpauls123

Also a very useful post! Thank you!

amunra

Good explanation. It looks like the Fare Restrictions + Combinability sections of the fare rules should offer an idea on what can and cannot be done.

amunra

There are some low BFs ex-C1 to C3 on a couple of ME carriers. YQ seems to be almost $700 on the one you know.

Is it even possible to dump this fare?

hellosweets

C2-C3 Business class 718$ Error fare + dump

EDIT $627.72 possible with some sweat

longest part on board of 747-400