Mar 15, 2020, 10:29 am
Last edit by: Maestro Ramen
FARE RULES:
I pulled down the DL fare rules (these are BUD-SEA but they all appeared nearly identical). I posted them on a share. We can easily grab the AF and KL variants if others need those.
Q: This is a fully flexible fare with free changes. Does that mean I can change the flight dates as I want without paying anything extra?
A: No. The airline simply doesn't charge a change fee. But depending on the fare rules, you will still need to pay the difference to the new price.
Q: But I read that some people could change their flights for free...?
A: The rules for this fare (linked to above) specify that historical pricing shall be used if either at least one flight from the ticket has been taken or the outbound remains the same. In other words, in order to be able to change your flights for free, you must have flown at least one flight from your booking. Otherwise, you can only change the inbound. The outbound has to remain the same or you will be charged the fare difference.
Q: Can I change the rest of the itinerary after flying the first segment without any other charges or additional fare differences?
A: Yes this is possible according to the fare rules where after completing the first segment, you can change the rest of the flights for free (with the condition that the same fare class is available- I-class - in this case. According to the fare rules, after flying the FIRST segment (in the case here BUD-XXX) the historical fare is used. Possible to use the first stopover at AMS or CDG (see post #830).
Q: But some people could change their outbound flights for free!
A: They got lucky. It was probably a bug on the website/in the app. When no flight from the ticket has been flown, the fare rules do not allow changing the outbound without repricing.
Q: Ok, ok, so I can only change the inbound for free. How do I do that?
A: You search for availability for alternative flights on ITA Matrix using "F ..I2FFHU" in the extension codes. You must search for round trip flights as this is a round trip fare. Then you ignore the outbound result (as long as you haven't flown at least one flight from your ticket) and just try to rebook your inbound on the website/app.
Q: I have found availability on ITA Matrix, but the app/website doesn't show me those flights!
A: Keep trying. Sometimes you may have to serach in a different way (split up the searches, e.g. HNL-LAX and LAX-BUD), sometimes you just have to repeat the search several times. But that's no guarantee the desired results will turn up (and without repricing).
Q: It doesn't work. Can I just call the airline to make the changes?
A: Please don't unless you need to. Calling can increase the risk for all of us that they'll change their mind and disallow all further changes, or simply cancel everyone's tickets. However, as this fare has now been running for months and has seen many calls made about it, it is reasonable to expect that calling will not cause issues at this stage. As best practice, avoid attracting attention on the low price paid, and avoid making additional demands or tempting your luck. Remember you get to fly a J ticket for the cost of a Y fare.
Q: How many times can I make changes?
A: In theory, as often as you like, but you can't make more than two changes online/in the app. After that, you'd have to call, which we are trying to avoid.
Q: I've changed my mind. Can I get a refund?
A: Yes, the fare was fully refundable. Just contact the airline or fill out a refund form online.
Q: Due to Coronavirus, I need to extend my travel plan beyond the original expiry date. What can I do?
A: For Delta tickets (starting with 006) you can travel at any point until December 2022. Changes to flights within a 10 month window can be done at any point on the app, following the rules above. If you want to fly later than 10 months from now, you can call Delta and ask them to "park" your ticket. You will receive a ticket number that ties to an eCredit which can be used later to buy tickets. As long as you keep the original itinerary, or if you have flown at least a segment, you will not be charged a fare difference. Bear in mind that the eCredit may only be refundable if your original flight was cancelled (which is very likely in those day and times). Note that only Delta in the US are able to do this so do not call the EU numbers (use Skype to save money on international calls). According to user feedback: iMessage agents seem to also be able to do this, but twitter agents not.
I pulled down the DL fare rules (these are BUD-SEA but they all appeared nearly identical). I posted them on a share. We can easily grab the AF and KL variants if others need those.
Q: This is a fully flexible fare with free changes. Does that mean I can change the flight dates as I want without paying anything extra?
A: No. The airline simply doesn't charge a change fee. But depending on the fare rules, you will still need to pay the difference to the new price.
Q: But I read that some people could change their flights for free...?
A: The rules for this fare (linked to above) specify that historical pricing shall be used if either at least one flight from the ticket has been taken or the outbound remains the same. In other words, in order to be able to change your flights for free, you must have flown at least one flight from your booking. Otherwise, you can only change the inbound. The outbound has to remain the same or you will be charged the fare difference.
Q: Can I change the rest of the itinerary after flying the first segment without any other charges or additional fare differences?
A: Yes this is possible according to the fare rules where after completing the first segment, you can change the rest of the flights for free (with the condition that the same fare class is available- I-class - in this case. According to the fare rules, after flying the FIRST segment (in the case here BUD-XXX) the historical fare is used. Possible to use the first stopover at AMS or CDG (see post #830).
Q: But some people could change their outbound flights for free!
A: They got lucky. It was probably a bug on the website/in the app. When no flight from the ticket has been flown, the fare rules do not allow changing the outbound without repricing.
Q: Ok, ok, so I can only change the inbound for free. How do I do that?
A: You search for availability for alternative flights on ITA Matrix using "F ..I2FFHU" in the extension codes. You must search for round trip flights as this is a round trip fare. Then you ignore the outbound result (as long as you haven't flown at least one flight from your ticket) and just try to rebook your inbound on the website/app.
Q: I have found availability on ITA Matrix, but the app/website doesn't show me those flights!
A: Keep trying. Sometimes you may have to serach in a different way (split up the searches, e.g. HNL-LAX and LAX-BUD), sometimes you just have to repeat the search several times. But that's no guarantee the desired results will turn up (and without repricing).
Q: It doesn't work. Can I just call the airline to make the changes?
A: Please don't unless you need to. Calling can increase the risk for all of us that they'll change their mind and disallow all further changes, or simply cancel everyone's tickets. However, as this fare has now been running for months and has seen many calls made about it, it is reasonable to expect that calling will not cause issues at this stage. As best practice, avoid attracting attention on the low price paid, and avoid making additional demands or tempting your luck. Remember you get to fly a J ticket for the cost of a Y fare.
Q: How many times can I make changes?
A: In theory, as often as you like, but you can't make more than two changes online/in the app. After that, you'd have to call, which we are trying to avoid.
Q: I've changed my mind. Can I get a refund?
A: Yes, the fare was fully refundable. Just contact the airline or fill out a refund form online.
Q: Due to Coronavirus, I need to extend my travel plan beyond the original expiry date. What can I do?
A: For Delta tickets (starting with 006) you can travel at any point until December 2022. Changes to flights within a 10 month window can be done at any point on the app, following the rules above. If you want to fly later than 10 months from now, you can call Delta and ask them to "park" your ticket. You will receive a ticket number that ties to an eCredit which can be used later to buy tickets. As long as you keep the original itinerary, or if you have flown at least a segment, you will not be charged a fare difference. Bear in mind that the eCredit may only be refundable if your original flight was cancelled (which is very likely in those day and times). Note that only Delta in the US are able to do this so do not call the EU numbers (use Skype to save money on international calls). According to user feedback: iMessage agents seem to also be able to do this, but twitter agents not.
{prem fare gone}: AF/KL/DL/VS: BUD-US from $750 R/T
Apr 9, 2020, 2:14 pm
#811
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: AMS
Programs: BAEC Silver, Flying Blue Gold, TK M&S Nobody
Posts: 2,482
I have no idea what you’re even asking the forum at this point. You’ve been given sound advice based on the fare rules, and you’ve been told no by the airline. Getting rerouted for next year based on a travel ban now is laughable.
Apr 9, 2020, 2:27 pm
#812
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: STR-BUD-ZRH-MUC-FRA
Posts: 210
maybe but it's true - anyway also 2021 there won't be travel as it was 2019.... maybe re-book the ticket to 2022!
Apr 9, 2020, 3:01 pm
#813
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2002
Programs: UA Platinum MM; DL Silver; IHG Diamond Ambassador; Hilton Gold; Marriott Gold
Posts: 24,249
Some people are exercising really poor judgment when it comes to these tickets. Unless your booking has flights that have been cancelled or significantly schedule changed since the time of ticketing, it is imprudent to place phone calls to the ticketing airline demanding routing changes and the like. Fly the first segment, and then avail yourself of the opportunity to change ensuing flights if you must -- hopefully quietly and without much of a fuss. That's when an opportunity for making changes without a re-fare should technically open up. But even then, discretion is often the better part of valor.
You got premium cabin tickets for $650 to $800 that regularly sell for multiples of that. You were able to pick flights and connection points and layovers/stopovers that were good enough to induce you to book. Please stop tempting fate and DL/KL/AF's goodwill by pushing for changes -- especially ones that require human interaction and intervention -- and, instead, enjoy what you actually booked. Trust me -- you'll survive.
You got premium cabin tickets for $650 to $800 that regularly sell for multiples of that. You were able to pick flights and connection points and layovers/stopovers that were good enough to induce you to book. Please stop tempting fate and DL/KL/AF's goodwill by pushing for changes -- especially ones that require human interaction and intervention -- and, instead, enjoy what you actually booked. Trust me -- you'll survive.
Apr 10, 2020, 5:11 am
#814
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 445
I can confirm that this has happened.
Apr 10, 2020, 5:31 am
#815
Join Date: Apr 2020
Posts: 53
Hi,
my ticket is from BUD-AMS-SEA-HNL - HNL-SEA-AMS-BUD.
Booked on klm.com
unfortunately my legs to/from SEA-HNL are in Economy class (Y) instead of business (I or J on my other legs).
Is there a chance to change the flights to/from HNL also in Business Class?
I tried to change my booking on klm.com but it comes with a high fare difference than- around 670.000HUF.
Would appreciate any help. Thanks!
my ticket is from BUD-AMS-SEA-HNL - HNL-SEA-AMS-BUD.
Booked on klm.com
unfortunately my legs to/from SEA-HNL are in Economy class (Y) instead of business (I or J on my other legs).
Is there a chance to change the flights to/from HNL also in Business Class?
I tried to change my booking on klm.com but it comes with a high fare difference than- around 670.000HUF.
Would appreciate any help. Thanks!
Apr 10, 2020, 6:15 am
#817
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: AMS
Programs: BAEC Silver, Flying Blue Gold, TK M&S Nobody
Posts: 2,482
Apr 10, 2020, 6:48 am
#818
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: MSP
Programs: DL PlatMM, BA and Alaska Emerald, HHonors DIA, Accor, Marriott Titanium, IHG Plat Amb, UA Silver, AA
Posts: 4,516
Some people are exercising really poor judgment when it comes to these tickets. Unless your booking has flights that have been cancelled or significantly schedule changed since the time of ticketing, it is imprudent to place phone calls to the ticketing airline demanding routing changes and the like. Fly the first segment, and then avail yourself of the opportunity to change ensuing flights if you must -- hopefully quietly and without much of a fuss. That's when an opportunity for making changes without a re-fare should technically open up. But even then, discretion is often the better part of valor.
You got premium cabin tickets for $650 to $800 that regularly sell for multiples of that. You were able to pick flights and connection points and layovers/stopovers that were good enough to induce you to book. Please stop tempting fate and DL/KL/AF's goodwill by pushing for changes -- especially ones that require human interaction and intervention -- and, instead, enjoy what you actually booked. Trust me -- you'll survive.
You got premium cabin tickets for $650 to $800 that regularly sell for multiples of that. You were able to pick flights and connection points and layovers/stopovers that were good enough to induce you to book. Please stop tempting fate and DL/KL/AF's goodwill by pushing for changes -- especially ones that require human interaction and intervention -- and, instead, enjoy what you actually booked. Trust me -- you'll survive.
If you can't make the changes online, WAIT UNTIL YOU FLY THE FIRST SEGMENT and then you'll likely be able to change it.
If too many people call before they fly the first segment, FYI I do have the experience of an airline blocking ALL changes even if the original fare rules allowed them-- it became, "Fly it as originally ticketed or cancel it."
That's why so many of us are asking for people to have patience.
Apr 10, 2020, 7:36 am
#819
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 4,287
If you can't make the changes online, WAIT UNTIL YOU FLY THE FIRST SEGMENT and then you'll likely be able to change it.
If too many people call before they fly the first segment, FYI I do have the experience of an airline blocking ALL changes even if the original fare rules allowed them-- it became, "Fly it as originally ticketed or cancel it."
That's why so many of us are asking for people to have patience.
If too many people call before they fly the first segment, FYI I do have the experience of an airline blocking ALL changes even if the original fare rules allowed them-- it became, "Fly it as originally ticketed or cancel it."
That's why so many of us are asking for people to have patience.
If you need/want to do planning around the trip based on possible changes, it'll still be cheaper to book flexible rates or use miles/points to book your air tickets or wait and book after flying the first segment and changes can be done.
Cheers!
Apr 10, 2020, 10:10 am
#820
Join Date: Apr 2020
Posts: 53
Apr 10, 2020, 10:23 am
#821
Join Date: Jul 2009
Programs: M&M
Posts: 997
I'd also like to remind all that this allows unlimited stopovers, ie it's completely possible to fly the first BUD-AMS/CDG/PRG/FCO leg and push the rest of the trip out months while at the airport. Obv a lot more feasible for folks living in the EU but might help some others too. This also extends the booking window to 1 year from the date of the first leg flown vs one year from ticket issue date (ie if you fly BUD-xxx Feb 2021 you can push the rest to 2022 if you so wish).
Apr 10, 2020, 11:32 am
#822
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 18
After you start the journey all changes will automatically use historical pricing. It's also several magnitudes less likely the airline will cancel your ticket/deny boarding for whatever reason.
I'd also like to remind all that this allows unlimited stopovers, ie it's completely possible to fly the first BUD-AMS/CDG/PRG/FCO leg and push the rest of the trip out months while at the airport. Obv a lot more feasible for folks living in the EU but might help some others too. This also extends the booking window to 1 year from the date of the first leg flown vs one year from ticket issue date (ie if you fly BUD-xxx Feb 2021 you can push the rest to 2022 if you so wish).
I'd also like to remind all that this allows unlimited stopovers, ie it's completely possible to fly the first BUD-AMS/CDG/PRG/FCO leg and push the rest of the trip out months while at the airport. Obv a lot more feasible for folks living in the EU but might help some others too. This also extends the booking window to 1 year from the date of the first leg flown vs one year from ticket issue date (ie if you fly BUD-xxx Feb 2021 you can push the rest to 2022 if you so wish).
Apr 10, 2020, 12:25 pm
#823
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: AMS
Programs: KL PFL; BA Gold; A3 Silver; EY Silver; SU Silver
Posts: 2,488
I see many quite experience people so I will try my luck about a question I still have no answer for...
Applied to this promo the quesiton is: It's easy to book say BUD-DL (op by AF)-PAR-DL-NYC without a stopover in PAR.
Now it IS technically possible to book the above with a stopover in PAR (however, the availability display will not show DL marketed flight for BUD-PAR in a separate search for most flights except rare cases like BA marketed flights within US etc).
Such flights have or used to have a comment 'international connection OR STOPOVER traffic only' so booking a stopover does violate that rule.
The question is if this is legal/ permitted or not and if yes how to explain this to an agent when I need to make this change to avoid confusion?.
Applied to this promo the quesiton is: It's easy to book say BUD-DL (op by AF)-PAR-DL-NYC without a stopover in PAR.
Now it IS technically possible to book the above with a stopover in PAR (however, the availability display will not show DL marketed flight for BUD-PAR in a separate search for most flights except rare cases like BA marketed flights within US etc).
Such flights have or used to have a comment 'international connection OR STOPOVER traffic only' so booking a stopover does violate that rule.
The question is if this is legal/ permitted or not and if yes how to explain this to an agent when I need to make this change to avoid confusion?.
Apr 10, 2020, 12:27 pm
#824
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: AMS
Programs: KL PFL; BA Gold; A3 Silver; EY Silver; SU Silver
Posts: 2,488
Yes as long as the airlines involved do not change their mind and say move to 'fly as ticketed or forget about it' policy. As per fare rules there is no no-show fee and the changes are free (subject....).
Apr 10, 2020, 12:47 pm
#825
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: STR-BUD-ZRH-MUC-FRA
Posts: 210
Guys, the question to me is more: can anybody travel in June 2020 from one country to another or even worse: will be folks be able to reach BUD? Emperior Orban has set a unlimited travel ban to Hungary (no entry, no exit)