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{prem fare gone}: AF/KL/DL/VS: BUD-US from $750 R/T

Old Mar 15, 2020, 10:29 am
FlyerTalk Forums Expert How-Tos and Guides
Last edit by: Maestro Ramen
FARE RULES:
I pulled down the DL fare rules (these are BUD-SEA but they all appeared nearly identical). I posted them on a share. We can easily grab the AF and KL variants if others need those.

Q: This is a fully flexible fare with free changes. Does that mean I can change the flight dates as I want without paying anything extra?
A: No. The airline simply doesn't charge a change fee. But depending on the fare rules, you will still need to pay the difference to the new price.

Q: But I read that some people could change their flights for free...?
A: The rules for this fare (linked to above) specify that historical pricing shall be used if either at least one flight from the ticket has been taken or the outbound remains the same. In other words, in order to be able to change your flights for free, you must have flown at least one flight from your booking. Otherwise, you can only change the inbound. The outbound has to remain the same or you will be charged the fare difference.

Q: Can I change the rest of the itinerary after flying the first segment without any other charges or additional fare differences?
A: Yes this is possible according to the fare rules where after completing the first segment, you can change the rest of the flights for free (with the condition that the same fare class is available- I-class - in this case. According to the fare rules, after flying the FIRST segment (in the case here BUD-XXX) the historical fare is used. Possible to use the first stopover at AMS or CDG (see post #830).

Q: But some people could change their outbound flights for free!
A: They got lucky. It was probably a bug on the website/in the app. When no flight from the ticket has been flown, the fare rules do not allow changing the outbound without repricing.

Q: Ok, ok, so I can only change the inbound for free. How do I do that?
A: You search for availability for alternative flights on ITA Matrix using "F ..I2FFHU" in the extension codes. You must search for round trip flights as this is a round trip fare. Then you ignore the outbound result (as long as you haven't flown at least one flight from your ticket) and just try to rebook your inbound on the website/app.

Q: I have found availability on ITA Matrix, but the app/website doesn't show me those flights!
A: Keep trying. Sometimes you may have to serach in a different way (split up the searches, e.g. HNL-LAX and LAX-BUD), sometimes you just have to repeat the search several times. But that's no guarantee the desired results will turn up (and without repricing).

Q: It doesn't work. Can I just call the airline to make the changes?
A: Please don't unless you need to. Calling can increase the risk for all of us that they'll change their mind and disallow all further changes, or simply cancel everyone's tickets. However, as this fare has now been running for months and has seen many calls made about it, it is reasonable to expect that calling will not cause issues at this stage. As best practice, avoid attracting attention on the low price paid, and avoid making additional demands or tempting your luck. Remember you get to fly a J ticket for the cost of a Y fare.

Q: How many times can I make changes?
A: In theory, as often as you like, but you can't make more than two changes online/in the app. After that, you'd have to call, which we are trying to avoid.

Q: I've changed my mind. Can I get a refund?
A: Yes, the fare was fully refundable. Just contact the airline or fill out a refund form online.

Q: Due to Coronavirus, I need to extend my travel plan beyond the original expiry date. What can I do?
A: For Delta tickets (starting with 006) you can travel at any point until December 2022. Changes to flights within a 10 month window can be done at any point on the app, following the rules above. If you want to fly later than 10 months from now, you can call Delta and ask them to "park" your ticket. You will receive a ticket number that ties to an eCredit which can be used later to buy tickets. As long as you keep the original itinerary, or if you have flown at least a segment, you will not be charged a fare difference. Bear in mind that the eCredit may only be refundable if your original flight was cancelled (which is very likely in those day and times). Note that only Delta in the US are able to do this so do not call the EU numbers (use Skype to save money on international calls). According to user feedback: iMessage agents seem to also be able to do this, but twitter agents not.
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{prem fare gone}: AF/KL/DL/VS: BUD-US from $750 R/T

Old Apr 4, 2020, 5:12 pm
  #661  
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Madrid
Programs: IB Platinum, TAP Gold, HH Diamond, Accor LL Gold
Posts: 85
Originally Posted by kyushuman
KLM has from the start of this Covid19 times been trying to NOT give back any cash for bookings, but instead has only offered "change of dates for same price" or its "voucher for future travel"
I think this could be a way for you to change the dates of the KLM one without a price change. I'd at least try that one first, since you're likely to be in for a fight about actually getting cash back anyway!
The whole Covid19 situation has no impact on KLM's free cancelation within 24hours policy. KLM not giving cash only applies for regular cancelations, not for the 24hour cancelation service they've been offering for years. You can expect the refund to take 2 to 8 weeks because of the current circumstances.
ItsWowStyle is offline  
Old Apr 4, 2020, 6:53 pm
  #662  
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: MSP
Programs: DL PlatMM, BA and Alaska Emerald, HHonors DIA, Accor, Marriott Titanium, IHG Plat Amb, UA Silver, AA
Posts: 4,503
Originally Posted by ItsWowStyle
The whole Covid19 situation has no impact on KLM's free cancelation within 24hours policy. KLM not giving cash only applies for regular cancelations, not for the 24hour cancelation service they've been offering for years. You can expect the refund to take 2 to 8 weeks because of the current circumstances.
Sorry I wasn't referencing the 24H cancel, just discussing cancellations for tickets purchased weeks ago. What I meant was that KLM might be allowing even more changes than normal at this time, as long as you're not asking for cash back. The person above asked about changing his dates vs. getting money back.

Last edited by kyushuman; Apr 5, 2020 at 10:16 am
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Old Apr 4, 2020, 11:05 pm
  #663  
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: DFW
Posts: 309
Looks like I ran into the two changes via app/website limit. I saw somebody upthread use the Facebook chat to change their flight, so I'm going to try that before calling in. Currently on BUD-PRG-JFK (on 763, yuck!)-SJU, going to try for BUD-AMS-ATL(D1 Suites if possible)-SJU instead. We shall see!
standbyalldtime is offline  
Old Apr 5, 2020, 3:35 am
  #664  
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: AMS
Programs: BAEC Silver, Flying Blue Gold, TK M&S Nobody
Posts: 2,414
Originally Posted by standbyalldtime
Looks like I ran into the two changes via app/website limit. I saw somebody upthread use the Facebook chat to change their flight, so I'm going to try that before calling in. Currently on BUD-PRG-JFK (on 763, yuck!)-SJU, going to try for BUD-AMS-ATL(D1 Suites if possible)-SJU instead. We shall see!
It did take about three hours to get to the front of the queue [I presume - time to first reply] - bit then it's not I was going anywhere yesterday. Or today. Or tomorrow.
etiene is offline  
Old Apr 5, 2020, 5:56 am
  #665  
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: YYC
Posts: 2,068
I called in this morning to inquire about changing both of my reservations - called DL in the US and KLM in NL - neither of them could make a date change to the outbound without repricing at current fares. Got someone on the line within 1 minute at both contact centers and both were very pleasant.

As mentioned above I did cancel within 24h with KLM but no refund yet - I asked them now to halt the cancellation and put a note on the PNR - since these flights are many many months away it's likely there will be a major schedule change by then anyway allowing me more flexibility to change one or both of the bookings.
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Old Apr 5, 2020, 8:29 am
  #666  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: AMS
Programs: KL PFL; BA Gold; A3 Silver; EY Silver; SU Silver
Posts: 2,483
Originally Posted by YYCCL3
I called in this morning to inquire about changing both of my reservations - called DL in the US and KLM in NL - neither of them could make a date change to the outbound without repricing at current fares. Got someone on the line within 1 minute at both contact centers and both were very pleasant.
It's an obvious web bug that people including my friend (but not me yet...) can make changes to the first fare component and keep the same fare which is no longer available, this contradicts the industry rules (IATA resolution 017f) and individual airline rules. I am happy that bug exists though!
Keter is offline  
Old Apr 5, 2020, 9:09 am
  #667  
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 68
Originally Posted by Keter
It's an obvious web bug that people including my friend (but not me yet...) can make changes to the first fare component and keep the same fare which is no longer available, this contradicts the industry rules (IATA resolution 017f) and individual airline rules. I am happy that bug exists though!
what do you mean by the .first far component?
Nigel Spencer is offline  
Old Apr 5, 2020, 9:31 am
  #668  
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: AMS
Programs: BAEC Silver, Flying Blue Gold, TK M&S Nobody
Posts: 2,414
Originally Posted by Keter
It's an obvious web bug that people including my friend (but not me yet...) can make changes to the first fare component and keep the same fare which is no longer available, this contradicts the industry rules (IATA resolution 017f) and individual airline rules. I am happy that bug exists though!
I think you're right, though some even claim to have changed first fare component on the phone.

Originally Posted by Nigel Spencer
what do you mean by the .first far component?
Most tickets will have two fare components, in this case BUD-(US) and (US)-BUD. Each fare component made up of a number of flights. In my case, the ticket I was reporting I couldn't change the first TATL leg for was BUD-AMS-DTW-SDF//BNA-MSP-AMS-BUD. I had assumed the fare components to be BUD-SDF and BNA-BUD, as these were the destinations highlighted at the low price on Google Flights. However, I just realised that had I looked closer at the results on ITA Matrix I would probably have found that I actually had a round-trip fare BUD-DTW-BUD [so fare components BUD-DTW and DTW-BUD] - hence I can change anything after touching down at DTW because that is then the return fare component. So now I have BUD-AMS-DTW-BNA//LEX-ATL-AMS-BUD but it's still presumably a Detroit round trip with an embedded surface sector. I was puzzled a couple of weeks ago when I couldn't find the fare filed in ExpertFlyer for SDF or BNA - now I know why as I can see it for DTW.

To explore this, play around some in ITA and then read the fare rules - you can even use this fare to do so [it's just more expensive now] by adding
f ..I2FFHU
to the extension codes under Advanced Controls.
etiene is offline  
Old Apr 5, 2020, 9:49 am
  #669  
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: DFW
Posts: 309
Another data point, I was told today by Delta on FB that "Your ticket is not refundable nor transferable." when I asked if my ticket was changeable/refundable without fee since the original ticket was. That worries me slightly.

I was also told the same thing about not being able to change the outbound without repricing at current fare levels, so it's unlikely I would have been able to make the change anyways. I suppose I will just hold my breath and wait to see if DL cancels JFK-PRG over the summer....
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Old Apr 5, 2020, 9:54 am
  #670  
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 119
Still havent received a refund or even an acknowledgement (ie trip shows up still on My Trips) on one of my itineraries that I cancelled within 24 hours after booking (cancelled one within 30 min after booking by filling out a form on the KLM website). Ill give it another week but at this point a call may be in order.
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Old Apr 5, 2020, 10:00 am
  #671  
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: AMS
Programs: BAEC Silver, Flying Blue Gold, TK M&S Nobody
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Originally Posted by standbyalldtime
Another data point, I was told today by Delta on FB that "Your ticket is not refundable nor transferable." when I asked if my ticket was changeable/refundable without fee since the original ticket was. That worries me slightly.

I was also told the same thing about not being able to change the outbound without repricing at current fare levels, so it's unlikely I would have been able to make the change anyways. I suppose I will just hold my breath and wait to see if DL cancels JFK-PRG over the summer....
I got the same as standard spiel just before confirming my changes - pointed out that it was a changeable/refundable fare and the agent corrected herself. Suspect they type that automatically since it'll be true in the overwhemling number of cases they're dealing with and they are clearly handling a lot of contacts right now...
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Old Apr 5, 2020, 10:11 am
  #672  
 
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I'd say it's quite rare for them to come across a ticket like this, totally changeable and refundable. So the reflexive "no changes, no refunds" is quite possible.
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Old Apr 5, 2020, 10:33 am
  #673  
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: YYC
Posts: 2,068
Originally Posted by etiene
I think you're right, though some even claim to have changed first fare component on the phone.

Most tickets will have two fare components, in this case BUD-(US) and (US)-BUD. Each fare component made up of a number of flights. In my case, the ticket I was reporting I couldn't change the first TATL leg for was BUD-AMS-DTW-SDF//BNA-MSP-AMS-BUD. I had assumed the fare components to be BUD-SDF and BNA-BUD, as these were the destinations highlighted at the low price on Google Flights. However, I just realised that had I looked closer at the results on ITA Matrix I would probably have found that I actually had a round-trip fare BUD-DTW-BUD [so fare components BUD-DTW and DTW-BUD] - hence I can change anything after touching down at DTW because that is then the return fare component. So now I have BUD-AMS-DTW-BNA//LEX-ATL-AMS-BUD but it's still presumably a Detroit round trip with an embedded surface sector. I was puzzled a couple of weeks ago when I couldn't find the fare filed in ExpertFlyer for SDF or BNA - now I know why as I can see it for DTW.

To explore this, play around some in ITA and then read the fare rules - you can even use this fare to do so [it's just more expensive now] by adding to the extension codes under Advanced Controls.
I see what you mean, but in my case I simply haven't got it to work. Case in point: my DL ticketed booking is from BUD-YYC-BUD, but is actually fared as BUD-SEA return with an embedded surface sector.

Others upthread have reportedly been able to change their dates completely over the phone (@andigoeskiwi) for example. Just curious what the differences are since some are able to do it and others not. The prices I was quoted to change by both KL and DL were the same as I saw on their websites to manage the bookings via self service, around 1500 EUR.
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Old Apr 5, 2020, 10:46 am
  #674  
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: AMS
Programs: BAEC Silver, Flying Blue Gold, TK M&S Nobody
Posts: 2,414
Originally Posted by YYCCL3
I see what you mean, but in my case I simply haven't got it to work. Case in point: my DL ticketed booking is from BUD-YYC-BUD, but is actually fared as BUD-SEA return with an embedded surface sector.

Others upthread have reportedly been able to change their dates completely over the phone (@andigoeskiwi) for example. Just curious what the differences are since some are able to do it and others not. The prices I was quoted to change by both KL and DL were the same as I saw on their websites to manage the bookings via self service, around 1500 EUR.
We may not ever know, though it is curious! I have two other bookings I actually would like to change the first sector for, so I will see if those are magically different [KL fares on DL stock as opposed to the DL/DL combination that I couldn't change the outbound for].

I think it must be these two at play, and I can certainly square them with what I've experienced - but they would seem to be redundant. Alternatively, I could see an interpretation that would allow wholesale date changes too - which some have managed and some have not.
1. NO CHANGE TO 1ST FARE COMPONENT
2. SAME FARE ON 1ST FARE COMPONENT IS USED
I can't see any difference in the fare rules for the three carriers, either.
etiene is offline  
Old Apr 5, 2020, 11:12 am
  #675  
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 14
Originally Posted by raychen4183
...
So my route is changed to BUD-AMS-SFO//SFO-DTW-AMS-BUD w/o paying any fare difference. And then I still play for some more possibilities and to my surprise, my route is changed to BUD-CDG-LAX-HNL//SFO-DTW-AMS-BUD for free. ....
May I ask how did you do that exactly? I tried KLM, AF and Delta and was not able to find a way to do that. I booked via KLM.
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