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[PREM FARE GONE] UA: NCL-EWR 600 DKK (mistaken fare) DOT ruled; see wiki for link

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Old Feb 11, 2015, 11:49 am
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Last edit by: drewguy
If you've never gone through this process read this before posting!
Note: Please consider that with high probability, United is monitoring this thread, so please pay attention on what you post!

DOT Investigation UpdatesNews Media Updates:

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According to USA Today, Ben Mutzabaugh:
United is voiding the bookings of several thousand individuals who were attempting to take advantage of an error a third-party software provider made when it applied an incorrect currency exchange rate, despite United having properly filed its fares. Most of these bookings were for travel originating in the United Kingdom, and the level of bookings made with Danish Kroner as the local currency was significantly higher than normal during the limited period that customers made these bookings.
Note that United has also accidentally cancelled "legitimate" tickets paid for in USD, purchased in USD from LHR... Please check your other tickets if purchased today to ensure they were not unilaterally cancelled.

However, there is no chance at all that you can have your tickets re-instated if you complain to DOT on the basis of DOT rule 399.88:
399.88 Prohibition on post-purchase price increase.

(a) It is an unfair and deceptive practice within the meaning of 49 U.S.C. 41712 for any seller of scheduled air transportation within, to or from the United States, or of a tour (i.e., a combination of air transportation and ground or cruise accommodations), or tour component (e.g., a hotel stay) that includes scheduled air transportation within, to or from the United States, to increase the price of that air transportation, tour or tour component to a consumer, including but not limited to an increase in the price of the seat, an increase in the price for the carriage of passenger baggage, or an increase in an applicable fuel surcharge, after the air transportation has been purchased by the consumer, except in the case of an increase in a government-imposed tax or fee. A purchase is deemed to have occurred when the full amount agreed upon has been paid by the consumer.
Form for filing DOT complaint. File complaint as soon as your ticket is cancelled.

Link to PDF of enforcement bodies for European customers affected. File complaint as soon as your ticket is cancelled.


Tips for DOT Complaint:
  • File on DOT for every ticket number affected.
  • If you have one reservation with four people traveling (four tickets) file 4 DOT complaints, one per ticket.
  • If you have separate reservations, file a DOT complaint for each.
  • The DOT complaint website may take several minutes to load, depending on demand.
  • When you go to upload a file, be careful as it will reset all your radio buttons. So, if you want a copy of the complaint, make sure you double check that "Yes" is still selected before submitting, especially if you upload a file.

Template For Complaint:
United has unilaterally cancelled my ticket without my consent.

Facts:
1. The ticket was ticketed (had a ticket number).
2. I received a confirmation number, ticket number, and emails stating both
3. The ticket was paid for and my credit card charged.

United must reinstate the ticket within its original cabin. This trip is for travel TO the United States.

At no time during the booking process was any other fare than the Danish Krone equivalent displayed. As a reasonable, prudent consumer, I believed I was paying the price displayed to me on the website. United never sent or displayed the equivalent fare in any other currency.

Trip Details
Ticket #: 016XXXXXXXXXX
PNR: XXXXXX
Routing: LHR-EWR-LAX-HNL

Attachments: Attached is a document showing the ticket, routing, and providing proof that the reservation was ticketed.

Filename: Cancelled - UA Reservation - LHR-EWR-LAX-HNL - XXXXXX - 016XXXXXXXXXX.pdf

+-------------------------------------------------------+
| Relevant Law |
| http://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/399.88 |
+-------------------------------------------------------+
399.88 Prohibition on post-purchase price increase.

(a) It is an unfair and deceptive practice within the meaning of 49 U.S.C. 41712 for any seller of scheduled air transportation within, to or from the United States, or of a tour (i.e., a combination of air transportation and ground or cruise accommodations), or tour component (e.g., a hotel stay) that includes scheduled air transportation within, to or from the United States, to increase the price of that air transportation, tour or tour component to a consumer, including but not limited to an increase in the price of the seat, an increase in the price for the carriage of passenger baggage, or an increase in an applicable fuel surcharge, after the air transportation has been purchased by the consumer, except in the case of an increase in a government-imposed tax or fee. A purchase is deemed to have occurred when the full amount agreed upon has been paid by the consumer.

+-------------------------------------------------------+
| Relevant FAQ |
| http://airconsumer.ost.dot.gov/rules/EAPP_2_FAQ.pdf |
+-------------------------------------------------------+
Does the prohibition on post-purchase price increases in section 399.88(a) apply in the situation where a carrier mistakenly offers an airfare due to a computer problem or human error and a consumer purchases the ticket at that fare before the carrier is able to fix the mistake?

Section 399.88(a) states that it is an unfair and deceptive practice for any seller of scheduled air transportation within, to, or from the United States, or of a tour or tour component that includes scheduled air transportation within, to, or from the United States, to increase the price of that air transportation to a consumer after the air transportation has been purchased by the consumer, except in the case of a government-imposed tax or fee and only if the passenger is advised of a possible increase before purchasing a ticket. A purchase occurs when the full amount agreed upon has been paid by the consumer. Therefore, if a consumer purchases a fare and that consumer receives confirmation (such as a confirmation email and/or the purchase appears on their credit card statement or online account summary) of their purchase, then the seller of air transportation cannot increase the price of that air transportation to that consumer, even when the fare is a mistake.
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Tips for retrieving your ticket number:
  1. paste(right click copy link location first) following link into your web browser
  2. change XXXXXX next to COPNR= for your reservation number and LASTNAME next to LN= for you SURNAME
  3. go to the webpage address you have just created

https://www.united.com/web/en-US/app...NRCD=2/11/2015


Originally Posted by MatthewLAX
Originally Posted by MatthewLAX View Post
R E L A X

Breathe deep.

Congrats on all who got in.

Now comes the fun part.

1. Discovery - mistake fare is posted on FT. Novices frantically checks how much vacation time they have and if the dates of availability mesh with their schedules. Experienced FTers just book it and worry about contacting spouses or their boss later. Word spreads like wildfire.

2. Excitement - Tickets purchased, confirmation emails received and dates of travel shared with other FTers. Discussions of what to see and do and where to stay crop up in other threads. Novices contact source to change seats or inquire about upgrades, Seasoned FTers sit back and enjoy reading the discussion threads.

3. Stress Stage 1 - Concern over paper ticket delivery - Novices Frantically check otheFedEx website every few hours, constant monitoring of driveway for FedEx truck. Seasoned FT veterans sit back and relax.

4. Glee and happiness - Paper tickets in hand, vacation request submitted, spouses finally informed, hotel reservations made and bragging to friends and co-workers begins. Both novices and experts get very excited.

5. Stress Stage 2 - Rumors of fare not being honored, discussion threads about the airline and ticketing agency ensue. Rumors crop up like crabgrass at this stage. Many FTers begin to worry excessively about whether or not the trip will happen. Novices make non-refundable and financial committments to their trip. Seasoned FTers make mixed drinks (and maybe a sandwich) and is patient.

6. Reality Check - Accurate information is obtained - usually takes place a week to 10 days after mistake fare is published. Confirmed information from the source as to whether or not tickets will be honored.

7a. Pure Joy (Icelandair style- Fare is Honored) - Lots of happy people, FT threads on shared information regarding hotels, restaurants, tours, etc. Jealousy from others sets in. First "FT guinea pigs" embark, post confirmation threads that all is ok.


7b Hostile Feelings (Copa Airlines Style - fare is not honored) - Many angry and disappointed FTers. Refunds are issued. Novices have multiple discussion threads of lawsuits and hostile correspondence, FT pros mutter "c'est la vie" and look for the next fare mistake.

8a Success (Honored) - Trip Report thread becomes very active


Freedom of Information Act Request
File #2015-147, Office of the Secretary of Transportation - Receipt acknowledged 3/13/15

http://www.dot.gov/individuals/foia/office-secretary-foia-information

Relevant excerpt from my request on 2/24/15. There no need for multiple requests for the same thing, though feel free to request more or different information obviously. I'll post any updates as I get them.

"Under the Freedom of Information Act, 5 U.S. C. subsection 552, I am requesting access to any and all records of correspondence, including electronic, between anyone working for, or on the behalf of, United Airlines and its subsidiaries, and with anyone working for, or on the behalf of, the Department of Transportation; specifically this would include only the date range beginning on February 11th, 2015 through and including February 24th, 2015.

In addition, I am requesting access to any and all internal records and correspondence in relation to coming to the decision made on February 23rd, 2015 regarding the Office of Aviation Enforcement and Proceedings Determination Regarding United Airlines Mistaken Fare, with the exception of any of the consumer submitted complaints via phone, email, website, or letter. Specifically, this would be any records beginning on February 11th, 2015 through and including February 24th, 2015."
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[PREM FARE GONE] UA: NCL-EWR 600 DKK (mistaken fare) DOT ruled; see wiki for link

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Old Feb 19, 2015, 11:43 pm
  #4651  
 
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Originally Posted by haddon90
so one thing I have seen is this thread is people who purchase airline tickets in different currencies because sometimes it can be cheaper.

has anyone ever purchased a domestic ticket in the US in a foreign currency and found it to be cheaper than in $US?
I haven't done domestic, but in January I booked a international ticket for Paris to the US. The price offered in euros was about $700 for a refundable ticket. If priced in USD, United wanted almost double that for a non-refundable ticket, and almost four times that for a refundable ticket.

Since I needed a refundable ticket, I'm sure that there are some who will insist I was taking advantage of them by purchasing a ticket at a 75% discount by using euros.
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Old Feb 20, 2015, 12:21 am
  #4652  
 
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Originally Posted by Enigma368


Many online retailers will cancel any order if the billing address provided is incorrect as they will suspect fraud - this is especially true if the country does not match.
Ahh, the "f" word again. Your Scoobylesseness is betrayed by this sentence. They can cancel if the billing address doesn't match, and they suspect the purchaser is using a STOLEN CREDIT CARD.

Here purchasers are using their own credit cards and purchasing something at the advertised price, which, last time I checked was their LEGAL RIGHT.

Not to mention you're totally ignoring the Paypal/Western Union option, which doesn't require a billing country.

I really don't understand why such defamatory and baseless accusations such as "fraud" are allowed to go unchecked in this forum.
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Old Feb 20, 2015, 12:23 am
  #4653  
 
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Originally Posted by haddon90
so one thing I have seen is this thread is people who purchase airline tickets in different currencies because sometimes it can be cheaper.

has anyone ever purchased a domestic ticket in the US in a foreign currency and found it to be cheaper than in $US?
I actually did. I booked several domestic flights on (mainly) german websites and most of the time they were cheaper.
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Old Feb 20, 2015, 12:27 am
  #4654  
 
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UA may still win this case, or at the least not be forced to honour the tickets, but mentioning the billing country needs to be a barrable offence in this forum.

It has been well established that the credit card billing address is no more than a billing issue. UA do not tie billing currency to the cardholder's billing address. No airline does, as it would lose them sales opportunities.


To argue "fraud" is to argue that UA MEANT TO OFFER these fares but only make them available to Denmark residents. That is as absurd as it is illegal.
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Old Feb 20, 2015, 12:50 am
  #4655  
 
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Originally Posted by SCSA
Ahh, the "f" word again. Your Scoobylesseness is betrayed by this sentence. They can cancel if the billing address doesn't match, and they suspect the purchaser is using a STOLEN CREDIT CARD.

Here purchasers are using their own credit cards and purchasing something at the advertised price, which, last time I checked was their LEGAL RIGHT.

Not to mention you're totally ignoring the Paypal/Western Union option, which doesn't require a billing country.

I really don't understand why such defamatory and baseless accusations such as "fraud" are allowed to go unchecked in this forum.
It isn't exactly a lie, but you are using a weasely definition of "advertised price".

It isn't as though United put these fares in a display ad on page 3 of the NY Times.

And you don't know anything about defamation law. Calling the passengers fraudulent is an opinion, not defamation. Stop complaining because people criticize you. When you use that description, you only show that you are afraid of the criticism, which must mean it hits home.
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Old Feb 20, 2015, 1:03 am
  #4656  
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Originally Posted by dilanesp
It isn't as though United put these fares in a display ad on page 3 of the NY Times.
Could you give it a rest... only using FT to post in one thread and derailing it almost every time should be reason to kick you out anyway. I really wonder why that hasn't happened yet....

Advertised on their website as in offered... ....... (you connect the dots).
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Old Feb 20, 2015, 1:05 am
  #4657  
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Originally Posted by PbodyPhoto
If United is not forced to honour these fares then what is to stop them randomly deciding to label future good deals as mistakes too. United made a mistake and they should face the consequences. I have made plenty of mistakes when booking air tickets myself and not once has the airline let me off the hook so why should we let them off?
It's this kind of comment that makes my head spin. How can anyone say or think that this was just a "good deal" that UA decided to back down from? basically the tickets were free. Most of the charge was taxes. No way could any reasonable person think US intended this.
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Old Feb 20, 2015, 1:09 am
  #4658  
 
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Originally Posted by dilanesp
It isn't exactly a lie, but you are using a weasely definition of "advertised price".

It isn't as though United put these fares in a display ad on page 3 of the NY Times.

And you don't know anything about defamation law. Calling the passengers fraudulent is an opinion, not defamation. Stop complaining because people criticize you. When you use that description, you only show that you are afraid of the criticism, which must mean it hits home.
If I search United's fares and they display a price back to me, that is an "advertised price". Advertising doesn't have to refer to third parties, it just as easily refers to a first party telling you what their price is. The website is a point of sale, similar to you going to a United salesman, asking the price, and purchasing the ticket from them and getting fully ticketed after going through United's pre-ticketing audit system.

If the salesman tells you the wrong price, United is responsible for checks in place to prevent the finalization of the sale.

At the same time, "fraudulent" is defined by the law, but people can interpret the law and it would take a gross or even intentionally wrong accusation to ever be labeled as defamation... If a court ruled that the specific action was not fraud and you still publicly accused the party of acting fraudulently, then it may be a different story.

Last edited by dlandz; Feb 20, 2015 at 1:17 am
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Old Feb 20, 2015, 1:17 am
  #4659  
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Originally Posted by YuropFlyer
How about this?

UA runs a supermarket. Hires some (cheaper) workforce to put the prices into the system. One guy makes a mistake, and instead of 5$ for a pack of crisps, it's just 2$

Then, later in the afternoon, UA rings at your door and demands the crisps back. Tells you, that it was a mistake from their side, and your card (which you paid with) will be refunded.
Fix your scenario and the answer is obvious. UA hires the guy. He puts inthe wrong price. But let's say $0.05 instead of $5.00 so it's clear that it's wildly wrong. Clear to you, included. You go to check out, pay the $0.05 and UA says "ooops, computer error" *BEFORE YOU LEAVE THE STORE*. Can they stop you? Of course they can.

UA stopped this before anyone actually used it.

So your scenario falls apart.
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Old Feb 20, 2015, 1:18 am
  #4660  
 
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I filed a complaint at United two days ago, today I got a 'reply': an empty email with my a transcript of my complaint. Way to go United!
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Old Feb 20, 2015, 1:20 am
  #4661  
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Originally Posted by Tchiowa
basically the tickets were free. Most of the charge was taxes. No way could any reasonable person think US intended this.
I've seen airlines selling tickets intentionally with 0.00 base fares, I have even seen negative base fares. We have even seen airlines intentionally selling tickets for less than the airport taxes.

So, you can indeed think that US did not intend this price, but you can't be sure. Once you buy the ticket, get a confirmation of purchase, and get an eticket, there is no longer any doubt. United just sold you a ticket at that price. They can no longer say this was unintentional. I call this negligence.

Oh, and the supermarket analogy; you leave the store at the moment you get the eticket. Transaction is final.

"You did not use it." Is the same argumentation that the store can claim back the pack of crisp as long as you did not ate them.

Last edited by 336; Feb 20, 2015 at 1:25 am
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Old Feb 20, 2015, 1:26 am
  #4662  
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Originally Posted by dilanesp
It isn't exactly a lie, but you are using a weasely definition of "advertised price".

It isn't as though United put these fares in a display ad on page 3 of the NY Times.

And you don't know anything about defamation law. Calling the passengers fraudulent is an opinion, not defamation. Stop complaining because people criticize you. When you use that description, you only show that you are afraid of the criticism, which must mean it hits home.
Advertised price on United.com is advertised price, whether anyone likes it or not.

Defamation/slander/libel lawsuits don't work in the US in the way they do work in some parts of the EU. Just saying.

Either way, the nasty insinuation that it's fraud when people use their own validly-issued bank cards with available funds to admittedly purchase a ticket for themselves is best characterized as an interesting rant.
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Old Feb 20, 2015, 1:35 am
  #4663  
 
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Originally Posted by Tchiowa
Fix your scenario and the answer is obvious. UA hires the guy. He puts inthe wrong price. But let's say $0.05 instead of $5.00 so it's clear that it's wildly wrong. Clear to you, included. You go to check out, pay the $0.05 and UA says "ooops, computer error" *BEFORE YOU LEAVE THE STORE*. Can they stop you? Of course they can.

UA stopped this before anyone actually used it.

So your scenario falls apart.
I guess the terms "contractual relationship", "contract" itself, ot "contractual obligations" are not ringing any bells.
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Old Feb 20, 2015, 1:42 am
  #4664  
 
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Originally Posted by Granite64
The EU has laws that guarantee anyone (from the EU) receives the same treatment regardless of their (billing) address. e.g. as a UK card holder, you "must" be allowed to purchase from a DK site with a Dutch or German card at the exact same conditions as someone with a DK card.
This is simply not true: in DK, you usually pay additional when using a foreign card, be it a US or a NL credit card, try taking a taxi in Copenhagen and pay with plastic.

What the EU rule says is that airlines cannot make air fares available to only a few limited EU countries (like "fare can only be sold in Denmark").

UA fares from UK are filled in GBP and are available at the same GBP level in all EU countries, converted to currency of country of purchase. If UA wants to restricts POS=DK sales to DK cards (because they have less card processing fees for example) they have the right to do so, just like Danish supermarkets sometimes do.
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Old Feb 20, 2015, 1:44 am
  #4665  
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Originally Posted by Megnezzuk
I guess the terms "contractual relationship", "contract" itself, ot "contractual obligations" are not ringing any bells.
If you cite purely contract law, you lose. Nothing enforceable about this contract.

The only hope you have is DOT. Any attempt to enforce this in a court gets laughed out.
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