Feb 11, 2015, 11:49 am
Last edit by: drewguy
If you've never gone through this process read this before posting!
Note: Please consider that with high probability, United is monitoring this thread, so please pay attention on what you post!
DOT Investigation Updates
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According to USA Today, Ben Mutzabaugh:
Note that United has also accidentally cancelled "legitimate" tickets paid for in USD, purchased in USD from LHR... Please check your other tickets if purchased today to ensure they were not unilaterally cancelled.
However, there is no chance at all that you can have your tickets re-instated if you complain to DOT on the basis of DOT rule § 399.88:
Form for filing DOT complaint. File complaint as soon as your ticket is cancelled.
Link to PDF of enforcement bodies for European customers affected. File complaint as soon as your ticket is cancelled.
Tips for DOT Complaint:
Template For Complaint:
-----
Tips for retrieving your ticket number:
https://www.united.com/web/en-US/app...NRCD=2/11/2015
Freedom of Information Act Request
File #2015-147, Office of the Secretary of Transportation - Receipt acknowledged 3/13/15
http://www.dot.gov/individuals/foia/office-secretary-foia-information
Relevant excerpt from my request on 2/24/15. There no need for multiple requests for the same thing, though feel free to request more or different information obviously. I'll post any updates as I get them.
"Under the Freedom of Information Act, 5 U.S. C. subsection 552, I am requesting access to any and all records of correspondence, including electronic, between anyone working for, or on the behalf of, United Airlines and its subsidiaries, and with anyone working for, or on the behalf of, the Department of Transportation; specifically this would include only the date range beginning on February 11th, 2015 through and including February 24th, 2015.
In addition, I am requesting access to any and all internal records and correspondence in relation to coming to the decision made on February 23rd, 2015 regarding the Office of Aviation Enforcement and Proceedings Determination Regarding United Airlines Mistaken Fare, with the exception of any of the consumer submitted complaints via phone, email, website, or letter. Specifically, this would be any records beginning on February 11th, 2015 through and including February 24th, 2015."
Note: Please consider that with high probability, United is monitoring this thread, so please pay attention on what you post!
DOT Investigation Updates
- 02/23/15: DOT says UA does not have to honor the fare; link to DOT's full explanation (pdf)
- 02/12/15: DOT Statement
- 02/12/15: fox news mentions DOT investigation and mention update by 5:00 pm ET -- posted by xSTRIKEx6864
- 02/12/15: Fox news clip -- posted by FlyingLasse
- 02/12/15: Another clip on fox news interviewing the pointsguy -- posted by FlyingLasse
- 02/12/15: Person in charge at the dot is Alex Taday (don't bombard him with email - or we will all regret it) -- posted by sonofzeus
- 02/12/15: Fox News update: UA honoring fares will depends on complaints made at the DOT.... -- posted by synd
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According to USA Today, Ben Mutzabaugh:
United is voiding the bookings of several thousand individuals who were attempting to take advantage of an error a third-party software provider made when it applied an incorrect currency exchange rate, despite United having properly filed its fares. Most of these bookings were for travel originating in the United Kingdom, and the level of bookings made with Danish Kroner as the local currency was significantly higher than normal during the limited period that customers made these bookings.
However, there is no chance at all that you can have your tickets re-instated if you complain to DOT on the basis of DOT rule § 399.88:
§ 399.88 Prohibition on post-purchase price increase.
(a) It is an unfair and deceptive practice within the meaning of 49 U.S.C. 41712 for any seller of scheduled air transportation within, to or from the United States, or of a tour (i.e., a combination of air transportation and ground or cruise accommodations), or tour component (e.g., a hotel stay) that includes scheduled air transportation within, to or from the United States, to increase the price of that air transportation, tour or tour component to a consumer, including but not limited to an increase in the price of the seat, an increase in the price for the carriage of passenger baggage, or an increase in an applicable fuel surcharge, after the air transportation has been purchased by the consumer, except in the case of an increase in a government-imposed tax or fee. A purchase is deemed to have occurred when the full amount agreed upon has been paid by the consumer.
(a) It is an unfair and deceptive practice within the meaning of 49 U.S.C. 41712 for any seller of scheduled air transportation within, to or from the United States, or of a tour (i.e., a combination of air transportation and ground or cruise accommodations), or tour component (e.g., a hotel stay) that includes scheduled air transportation within, to or from the United States, to increase the price of that air transportation, tour or tour component to a consumer, including but not limited to an increase in the price of the seat, an increase in the price for the carriage of passenger baggage, or an increase in an applicable fuel surcharge, after the air transportation has been purchased by the consumer, except in the case of an increase in a government-imposed tax or fee. A purchase is deemed to have occurred when the full amount agreed upon has been paid by the consumer.
Link to PDF of enforcement bodies for European customers affected. File complaint as soon as your ticket is cancelled.
Tips for DOT Complaint:
- File on DOT for every ticket number affected.
- If you have one reservation with four people traveling (four tickets) file 4 DOT complaints, one per ticket.
- If you have separate reservations, file a DOT complaint for each.
- The DOT complaint website may take several minutes to load, depending on demand.
- When you go to upload a file, be careful as it will reset all your radio buttons. So, if you want a copy of the complaint, make sure you double check that "Yes" is still selected before submitting, especially if you upload a file.
Template For Complaint:
United has unilaterally cancelled my ticket without my consent.
Facts:
1. The ticket was ticketed (had a ticket number).
2. I received a confirmation number, ticket number, and emails stating both
3. The ticket was paid for and my credit card charged.
United must reinstate the ticket within its original cabin. This trip is for travel TO the United States.
At no time during the booking process was any other fare than the Danish Krone equivalent displayed. As a reasonable, prudent consumer, I believed I was paying the price displayed to me on the website. United never sent or displayed the equivalent fare in any other currency.
Trip Details
Ticket #: 016XXXXXXXXXX
PNR: XXXXXX
Routing: LHR-EWR-LAX-HNL
Attachments: Attached is a document showing the ticket, routing, and providing proof that the reservation was ticketed.
Filename: Cancelled - UA Reservation - LHR-EWR-LAX-HNL - XXXXXX - 016XXXXXXXXXX.pdf
+-------------------------------------------------------+
| Relevant Law |
| http://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/399.88 |
+-------------------------------------------------------+
§ 399.88 Prohibition on post-purchase price increase.
(a) It is an unfair and deceptive practice within the meaning of 49 U.S.C. 41712 for any seller of scheduled air transportation within, to or from the United States, or of a tour (i.e., a combination of air transportation and ground or cruise accommodations), or tour component (e.g., a hotel stay) that includes scheduled air transportation within, to or from the United States, to increase the price of that air transportation, tour or tour component to a consumer, including but not limited to an increase in the price of the seat, an increase in the price for the carriage of passenger baggage, or an increase in an applicable fuel surcharge, after the air transportation has been purchased by the consumer, except in the case of an increase in a government-imposed tax or fee. A purchase is deemed to have occurred when the full amount agreed upon has been paid by the consumer.
+-------------------------------------------------------+
| Relevant FAQ |
| http://airconsumer.ost.dot.gov/rules/EAPP_2_FAQ.pdf |
+-------------------------------------------------------+
Does the prohibition on post-purchase price increases in section 399.88(a) apply in the situation where a carrier mistakenly offers an airfare due to a computer problem or human error and a consumer purchases the ticket at that fare before the carrier is able to fix the mistake?
Section 399.88(a) states that it is an unfair and deceptive practice for any seller of scheduled air transportation within, to, or from the United States, or of a tour or tour component that includes scheduled air transportation within, to, or from the United States, to increase the price of that air transportation to a consumer after the air transportation has been purchased by the consumer, except in the case of a government-imposed tax or fee and only if the passenger is advised of a possible increase before purchasing a ticket. A purchase occurs when the full amount agreed upon has been paid by the consumer. Therefore, if a consumer purchases a fare and that consumer receives confirmation (such as a confirmation email and/or the purchase appears on their credit card statement or online account summary) of their purchase, then the seller of air transportation cannot increase the price of that air transportation to that consumer, even when the fare is a “mistake.”
Facts:
1. The ticket was ticketed (had a ticket number).
2. I received a confirmation number, ticket number, and emails stating both
3. The ticket was paid for and my credit card charged.
United must reinstate the ticket within its original cabin. This trip is for travel TO the United States.
At no time during the booking process was any other fare than the Danish Krone equivalent displayed. As a reasonable, prudent consumer, I believed I was paying the price displayed to me on the website. United never sent or displayed the equivalent fare in any other currency.
Trip Details
Ticket #: 016XXXXXXXXXX
PNR: XXXXXX
Routing: LHR-EWR-LAX-HNL
Attachments: Attached is a document showing the ticket, routing, and providing proof that the reservation was ticketed.
Filename: Cancelled - UA Reservation - LHR-EWR-LAX-HNL - XXXXXX - 016XXXXXXXXXX.pdf
+-------------------------------------------------------+
| Relevant Law |
| http://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/399.88 |
+-------------------------------------------------------+
§ 399.88 Prohibition on post-purchase price increase.
(a) It is an unfair and deceptive practice within the meaning of 49 U.S.C. 41712 for any seller of scheduled air transportation within, to or from the United States, or of a tour (i.e., a combination of air transportation and ground or cruise accommodations), or tour component (e.g., a hotel stay) that includes scheduled air transportation within, to or from the United States, to increase the price of that air transportation, tour or tour component to a consumer, including but not limited to an increase in the price of the seat, an increase in the price for the carriage of passenger baggage, or an increase in an applicable fuel surcharge, after the air transportation has been purchased by the consumer, except in the case of an increase in a government-imposed tax or fee. A purchase is deemed to have occurred when the full amount agreed upon has been paid by the consumer.
+-------------------------------------------------------+
| Relevant FAQ |
| http://airconsumer.ost.dot.gov/rules/EAPP_2_FAQ.pdf |
+-------------------------------------------------------+
Does the prohibition on post-purchase price increases in section 399.88(a) apply in the situation where a carrier mistakenly offers an airfare due to a computer problem or human error and a consumer purchases the ticket at that fare before the carrier is able to fix the mistake?
Section 399.88(a) states that it is an unfair and deceptive practice for any seller of scheduled air transportation within, to, or from the United States, or of a tour or tour component that includes scheduled air transportation within, to, or from the United States, to increase the price of that air transportation to a consumer after the air transportation has been purchased by the consumer, except in the case of a government-imposed tax or fee and only if the passenger is advised of a possible increase before purchasing a ticket. A purchase occurs when the full amount agreed upon has been paid by the consumer. Therefore, if a consumer purchases a fare and that consumer receives confirmation (such as a confirmation email and/or the purchase appears on their credit card statement or online account summary) of their purchase, then the seller of air transportation cannot increase the price of that air transportation to that consumer, even when the fare is a “mistake.”
Tips for retrieving your ticket number:
- paste(right click copy link location first) following link into your web browser
- change XXXXXX next to COPNR= for your reservation number and LASTNAME next to LN= for you SURNAME
- go to the webpage address you have just created
https://www.united.com/web/en-US/app...NRCD=2/11/2015
Originally Posted by MatthewLAX
Originally Posted by MatthewLAX View Post
R E L A X
Breathe deep.
Congrats on all who got in.
Now comes the fun part.
1. Discovery - mistake fare is posted on FT. Novices frantically checks how much vacation time they have and if the dates of availability mesh with their schedules. Experienced FTers just book it and worry about contacting spouses or their boss later. Word spreads like wildfire.
2. Excitement - Tickets purchased, confirmation emails received and dates of travel shared with other FTers. Discussions of what to see and do and where to stay crop up in other threads. Novices contact source to change seats or inquire about upgrades, Seasoned FTers sit back and enjoy reading the discussion threads.
3. Stress Stage 1 - Concern over paper ticket delivery - Novices Frantically check otheFedEx website every few hours, constant monitoring of driveway for FedEx truck. Seasoned FT veterans sit back and relax.
4. Glee and happiness - Paper tickets in hand, vacation request submitted, spouses finally informed, hotel reservations made and bragging to friends and co-workers begins. Both novices and experts get very excited.
5. Stress Stage 2 - Rumors of fare not being honored, discussion threads about the airline and ticketing agency ensue. Rumors crop up like crabgrass at this stage. Many FTers begin to worry excessively about whether or not the trip will happen. Novices make non-refundable and financial committments to their trip. Seasoned FTers make mixed drinks (and maybe a sandwich) and is patient.
6. Reality Check - Accurate information is obtained - usually takes place a week to 10 days after mistake fare is published. Confirmed information from the source as to whether or not tickets will be honored.
7a. Pure Joy (Icelandair style- Fare is Honored) - Lots of happy people, FT threads on shared information regarding hotels, restaurants, tours, etc. Jealousy from others sets in. First "FT guinea pigs" embark, post confirmation threads that all is ok.
7b Hostile Feelings (Copa Airlines Style - fare is not honored) - Many angry and disappointed FTers. Refunds are issued. Novices have multiple discussion threads of lawsuits and hostile correspondence, FT pros mutter "c'est la vie" and look for the next fare mistake.
8a Success (Honored) - Trip Report thread becomes very active
R E L A X
Breathe deep.
Congrats on all who got in.
Now comes the fun part.
1. Discovery - mistake fare is posted on FT. Novices frantically checks how much vacation time they have and if the dates of availability mesh with their schedules. Experienced FTers just book it and worry about contacting spouses or their boss later. Word spreads like wildfire.
2. Excitement - Tickets purchased, confirmation emails received and dates of travel shared with other FTers. Discussions of what to see and do and where to stay crop up in other threads. Novices contact source to change seats or inquire about upgrades, Seasoned FTers sit back and enjoy reading the discussion threads.
3. Stress Stage 1 - Concern over paper ticket delivery - Novices Frantically check otheFedEx website every few hours, constant monitoring of driveway for FedEx truck. Seasoned FT veterans sit back and relax.
4. Glee and happiness - Paper tickets in hand, vacation request submitted, spouses finally informed, hotel reservations made and bragging to friends and co-workers begins. Both novices and experts get very excited.
5. Stress Stage 2 - Rumors of fare not being honored, discussion threads about the airline and ticketing agency ensue. Rumors crop up like crabgrass at this stage. Many FTers begin to worry excessively about whether or not the trip will happen. Novices make non-refundable and financial committments to their trip. Seasoned FTers make mixed drinks (and maybe a sandwich) and is patient.
6. Reality Check - Accurate information is obtained - usually takes place a week to 10 days after mistake fare is published. Confirmed information from the source as to whether or not tickets will be honored.
7a. Pure Joy (Icelandair style- Fare is Honored) - Lots of happy people, FT threads on shared information regarding hotels, restaurants, tours, etc. Jealousy from others sets in. First "FT guinea pigs" embark, post confirmation threads that all is ok.
7b Hostile Feelings (Copa Airlines Style - fare is not honored) - Many angry and disappointed FTers. Refunds are issued. Novices have multiple discussion threads of lawsuits and hostile correspondence, FT pros mutter "c'est la vie" and look for the next fare mistake.
8a Success (Honored) - Trip Report thread becomes very active
Freedom of Information Act Request
File #2015-147, Office of the Secretary of Transportation - Receipt acknowledged 3/13/15
http://www.dot.gov/individuals/foia/office-secretary-foia-information
Relevant excerpt from my request on 2/24/15. There no need for multiple requests for the same thing, though feel free to request more or different information obviously. I'll post any updates as I get them.
"Under the Freedom of Information Act, 5 U.S. C. subsection 552, I am requesting access to any and all records of correspondence, including electronic, between anyone working for, or on the behalf of, United Airlines and its subsidiaries, and with anyone working for, or on the behalf of, the Department of Transportation; specifically this would include only the date range beginning on February 11th, 2015 through and including February 24th, 2015.
In addition, I am requesting access to any and all internal records and correspondence in relation to coming to the decision made on February 23rd, 2015 regarding the Office of Aviation Enforcement and Proceedings Determination Regarding United Airlines Mistaken Fare, with the exception of any of the consumer submitted complaints via phone, email, website, or letter. Specifically, this would be any records beginning on February 11th, 2015 through and including February 24th, 2015."
[PREM FARE GONE] UA: NCL-EWR 600 DKK (mistaken fare) DOT ruled; see wiki for link
Feb 19, 2015, 10:34 am
#4561
Join Date: Aug 2010
Programs: TK Elite Plus, SAS EBG, QR Platinum, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 2,297
I'm sure the head of the DOT have received a nice "donation" from United, because that's how things work in the corrupt land of America, right? Surely the fine will be $1 per passenger, is my guess.
Feb 19, 2015, 10:36 am
#4562
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: SEA/DEN
Programs: Hostelworld.com Diamond Plated Platinum
Posts: 390
DO we have any idea when the DOT ruling is going to come out? I heard Tuesday, but that did not happen. I am trying to decide if I am going east or west in 2 weeks and want to buy some of these tickets!
Feb 19, 2015, 10:38 am
#4563
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 222
This made me crack up. Everyone who wants this fare honored has EVERYTHING riding on a favorable DOT decision. Why isn't the European consumer protection authorities willing or have a framework to force United into honoring this fare, if things are only corrupt in the US?
Feb 19, 2015, 10:42 am
#4564
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Bay Area, CA
Programs: UA Plat 2MM; AS MVP Gold 75K
Posts: 35,068
Thought I'd finally chime in as a lurker on this deal. IF DOT requires UA to honor the fare, the most likely scenario is UA will take a fine instead. Remember its up to penalty amount not a flat rate per ticket. Look at the latest tarmac delay fines handed out. It was a fraction of the max penalty and just a slap on the wrist. Nothing stopping DOT from handing out say a $1000 per ticket fine since UA didn't do anything outrageous. After weeding out all the cases that are out of DOT jurisdiction (less than 24 hours in the US) the fine could be pretty minimal in the grand scheme of things.
UA would have to calculate the cost of transporting (i.e., offsetting revenue) x the percentage of tickets that would actually get used and compare to the cost of the fine.
A normal company would also factor in the PR cost of going on record saying, "F them, we'll just pay the fine," but this is United Continental Holdings, so they're probably not thinking about that.
UA could also mitigate the transportation costs by inducing cancellations by offering an incentive (miles, voucher, etc.). I believe one of the good deal fares by an Asian carrier a few years ago did something like that. And US offered EQMs and RDMs to relinquish seats on their STX deal several years ago.
Heck, if UA offered PQMs and RDMs at pre-3/1 rates to cancel purchased tickets, they'd probably wipe out 50% or more off the bat.
Another factor that may be in play that is somewhat unique to UA is that UA is strongly disliked by many of its customers. Several bookings may have been made not because the customer actually wants to travel, rather because they want to #MakeJeffPay.
So inducing cancellations may be a prudent strategy in this instance, should UA be required to honor the tickets sold.
To my point above about people wanting to #MakeJeffPay. I think a lot of people would rather see UA harmed than fly First Class transatlantic.
Feb 19, 2015, 10:42 am
#4565
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,095
What we think matters and what's right vs what UA has decided to do are entirely separate. Unless UA gets some kind of stick or threat of sizable penalty from any of the regulations on the books, they won't be changing their tune.
I can only recall of one instance where an airline backtracked and restored the unilaterally cancelled tickets, and that was Alitalia's YYZ-LCA.
The other mistake fares all ended with threats of filings with small claims court; and of the very few that actually went through, even smaller number actually came out ahead.
I can only recall of one instance where an airline backtracked and restored the unilaterally cancelled tickets, and that was Alitalia's YYZ-LCA.
The other mistake fares all ended with threats of filings with small claims court; and of the very few that actually went through, even smaller number actually came out ahead.
Feb 19, 2015, 10:58 am
#4566
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: LHR
Programs: M&M,HH Gold,Accor Plat.,Priority Club Plat. Ambassador,Club Carlson Gold,Marriott Gold,GHA Plat.
Posts: 1,627
Thought I'd finally chime in as a lurker on this deal. IF DOT requires UA to honor the fare, the most likely scenario is UA will take a fine instead. Remember its up to penalty amount not a flat rate per ticket. Look at the latest tarmac delay fines handed out. It was a fraction of the max penalty and just a slap on the wrist. Nothing stopping DOT from handing out say a $1000 per ticket fine since UA didn't do anything outrageous. After weeding out all the cases that are out of DOT jurisdiction (less than 24 hours in the US) the fine could be pretty minimal in the grand scheme of things.
Aside for the non-UA metal operated flights!
Feb 19, 2015, 10:58 am
#4567
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,095
Anyone who isn't in considered friendly enough to the transport industry's kingpins would have a harder time with getting confirmed in the Senate. Make too many enemies and you don't land a job like that.
Feb 19, 2015, 10:59 am
#4568
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: BWI<MCI< PHL<DEN<SCL<EZE<CHO<PHL<ABE
Programs: UA Silver / FA
Posts: 939
This thread has been like a roller coaster of a one night stand/three-way between the ticket-holder, DoT, and UA. We're all awake, in the same bed, and we remember what happened last night.
Let me make you both some eggs bennie, and we can talk about it. Otherwise, we can just keep pretending like we're still asleep, but I really need to go to the bathroom.
Feb 19, 2015, 11:02 am
#4569
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Londinium
Programs: BAEC
Posts: 930
Sweet Jesus Dolly Parton we're now talking about legal philosophers in an attempt to tell the rest of us how dirty our hands are.
This will elicit a 10 paragraph smarty pants response citing Hammurabi's Code, the Roman Law Merchant, Buckminster Fuller and Henry VIII's "Defence of the Seven Sacrements", but selecting DKK as your currency isn't website manipulation.
The classic example of website manipulation was the UA award ticket case, where customers could use a flaw in the website to trick the system into thinking they had more miles than they actually did.
This is a completely different scenario, and in the case UA specifically claimed manipulation, whereas they've not mentioned it here.
Now, in the words of philosopher/scholar Rudolph Schenker of The Scorpions. "..........
This will elicit a 10 paragraph smarty pants response citing Hammurabi's Code, the Roman Law Merchant, Buckminster Fuller and Henry VIII's "Defence of the Seven Sacrements", but selecting DKK as your currency isn't website manipulation.
The classic example of website manipulation was the UA award ticket case, where customers could use a flaw in the website to trick the system into thinking they had more miles than they actually did.
This is a completely different scenario, and in the case UA specifically claimed manipulation, whereas they've not mentioned it here.
Now, in the words of philosopher/scholar Rudolph Schenker of The Scorpions. "..........
Feb 19, 2015, 11:11 am
#4570
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 54
I think the key point is whether they specifically enivisaged being asked to fine airlines for not honoring fares where consumers played games with the website to get the fare. And that is neither narrow or unprovable-- the DOT knows what they envisaged, and the aviation lawyers in the Bloomberg story (including Mary Fackler Schiavo, who used to work at the DOT) who were quoted said that it is precisely the issue posed here.
If I can make one other, tangential point-- I don't think the people who claim these fares do themselves any favors when they try to muck up how the fare was claimed.
The best example of this wasn't here, but in a comments thread of another website, where someone said "I chose DKK because I wanted to pay in krones". Yep, you wanted to pay in a currency that you did not even know the correct pluralization of.
But if you go back to the beginning of this thread here, the people were clearly choosing DKK for one reason and one reason only, to get the mistake fare. Had there been no mistake fare, most of these people would not have booked travel in DKK. And at least some of them did select Denmark as their credit card billing address to get the fare.
The point is, nobody at the DOT is going to believe any of these explanations about how people COULD have been choosing to pay in all sorts of currency for all sorts of reasons. Similarly, nobody is going to believe these explanations about how a few, cherry picked examples of the highest of the mistake fares, were comparable to some previous fare sales. Professor Harry Frankfurt wrote a book which accurately describes that sort of argumentation.
Making up rationalizations for whatever you did is not actually effective legal argumentation. It just costs credibility. It's much better to say "yeah, of course I booked in DKK because that was how to claim the mistake fare, but this is why it should be honored anyway". Shift debate to ground where you are stronger. When you deny the obvious, you may convince yourself, but you aren't likely to convince anyone else.
If I can make one other, tangential point-- I don't think the people who claim these fares do themselves any favors when they try to muck up how the fare was claimed.
The best example of this wasn't here, but in a comments thread of another website, where someone said "I chose DKK because I wanted to pay in krones". Yep, you wanted to pay in a currency that you did not even know the correct pluralization of.
But if you go back to the beginning of this thread here, the people were clearly choosing DKK for one reason and one reason only, to get the mistake fare. Had there been no mistake fare, most of these people would not have booked travel in DKK. And at least some of them did select Denmark as their credit card billing address to get the fare.
The point is, nobody at the DOT is going to believe any of these explanations about how people COULD have been choosing to pay in all sorts of currency for all sorts of reasons. Similarly, nobody is going to believe these explanations about how a few, cherry picked examples of the highest of the mistake fares, were comparable to some previous fare sales. Professor Harry Frankfurt wrote a book which accurately describes that sort of argumentation.
Making up rationalizations for whatever you did is not actually effective legal argumentation. It just costs credibility. It's much better to say "yeah, of course I booked in DKK because that was how to claim the mistake fare, but this is why it should be honored anyway". Shift debate to ground where you are stronger. When you deny the obvious, you may convince yourself, but you aren't likely to convince anyone else.
1) Were customers playing games with the website? If yes, then answer this question, can said games still be played? If the answer is still yes, then should United be allowed to cancel any tickets under said "gaming" scenario or only when incorrect currency calculations are loaded?
2) I think everyone here wanted to buy in DKK because that was how to purchase the deal. There's nothing nefarious about it.
Feb 19, 2015, 11:13 am
#4571
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: BOS/ORH
Programs: AS 75K
Posts: 18,323
Knowing UA they would probably do it just out of spite. There is no incentive to look like the good guy. I won't go any further into details because I don't want to give them any more ideas. Not that they haven't already thought about them on their own, the option of taking a fine vs honoring has been made many times on FT and we know UA reads everything.
.
Feb 19, 2015, 11:25 am
#4574
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: ICT
Programs: AA ExP
Posts: 1,860
They put them into NOGO status (which has same effect as void status which UA has put these tickets into). I thought they had announced they weren't going to be honored at first, but I could be misremembering. But I do know for sure that they invalidated the tickets, whatever their intentions or public pronouncements.
Feb 19, 2015, 11:29 am
#4575
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 3,838
They put them into NOGO status (which has same effect as void status which UA has put these tickets into). I thought they had announced they weren't going to be honored at first, but I could be misremembering. But I do know for sure that they invalidated the tickets, whatever their intentions or public pronouncements.