Jun 19, 2013, 9:45 pm
Last edit by: fti
People, please edit/use the wiki so same questions are not always asked.
The current CTA decision on the Yangon deal is only for tickets canceled by SWISS Airlines for the seven merged complaints/companions and tickets canceled by Jet Airways for one complainant and companions
- It's not about other carriers because each carrier submits different tariffs.
- If you are not one of the complainants or their companions above who were mentioned in the respective cases, you need to submit a case yourself for hearing.
- There's currently one person who is on Iberia for CTA decision, one can either wait for results or submit a complaint to CTA.
Result of the current case for LX in brief is:
- CTA found 5(F) in the tariff used to be unclear for canceling tickets on erroneously quoted fares.
- 5(F) is unjust and unreasonable and must be revised or taken down by July 9, 2013 (or SWISS can appeal by then)
- SWISS did not use its tariff correctly to cancel the tickets.
- SWISS must compensate one complainant's First Class ticket and any related expenses by July 18, 2013 provided with evidence.
- SWISS must transport other complainants (and their companions) in the original price charged with same booking class and routing by June 18, 2014.
Result of the current case for 9W in brief is:
- Tariff on file had no clauses for "erroneous fares" and was updated subsequently, which means it is not relevant to this event
- Therefore, 9W is to reinstate the tickets with a 1-year validity for transport between the same points and the same booking class.
CTA official news can be read here for general overview of the case.
Actual CTA case review can be found here for reference should you wish to file a complaint.
If you have a similar case that's with SWISS, you need to file with CTA to get a result through informal process first before it gets to formal process. The entire procedure can take up to 3 months for each and the result may not be same cause it's case-by-base and the reviewer of the case can be different.
To file an informal complaint with CTA, see here. Click through all of the pages to get to the online form for the informal complaint. Or click here.
To file a formal complaint after informal complaint has been closed, see here. Continue on to the next page to see the address or email address for the formal complaint.
The July 17th and 18th responses from LX can be found here:
Other Letters:
Feel free to add dates, flights, etc., in order to plan DOs, etc.
Aug 4: SFO-ICN (UA893)
Jason8612
Aug 5: ICN-SFO (UA892)
Jason8612
Aug 7: SFO-ICN (UA893)
Jason8612
Aug 11: ICN-NRT-ORD (UA78, UA882)
Jason8612
Aug 14: BOS-IAD-NRT-ICN (UA285, UA803, UA79)
Deltspygt
Aug 19: ICN-NRT-IAD-BOS (UA78, UA804, UA352)
Deltspygt
Oct 1: UA433-UA893
JeredF +1
Oct 8: UA892-UA242
JeredF +1
Oct 9: BOS-SFO-ICN (UA433, UA893)
BigJC
Oct 13: ICN-NRT-ORD-BOS (UA78, UA882, UA744)
BigJC
Oct 21: BOS-SFO UA433 to SFO-ICN UA893
Sterndogg +1
flyerdude88 (SFO - ICN portion only)
Oct 23: ICN - SFO UA 892
flyerdude88
Oct 27: ICN-SFO UA892 to SFO-BOS UA286
Sterndogg +1
Nov 05: BOS-ORD UA521, ORD-NRT UA881
kokonutz, I012609, BingoSF +1
Nov 11: ICN-SFO UA892, SFO-IAD UA727
kokonutz, I012609, BingoSF +1
Nov 26: BOS-SFO UA433, SFO-NRT UA837, NRT-ICN UA79
thepla
Nov 27: BOS-ORD-NRT-ICN (UA501, UA881, UA196)
BigJC+1
Nov 29: Planning 2 days in TPE, been to ICN
thepla
Dec 1: ICN-SFO UA892, SFO-ORD UA698, ORD-BOS UA961
thepla
Dec 1: ICN-NRT-IAD-BOS (UA78, UA804, UA822)
BigJC+1
Dec 15: BOS-SFO UA433, SFO-ICN UA893
songzm
Dec 25: BOS-IAD UA285, IAD-NRT UA803, NRT-ICN UA79
Dinoscool3 +2
Dec 30: ICN-SFO UA892, SFO-BOS UA444
songzm
Dec 31: ICN-SFO UA892, SFO-BOS UA770
Dinoscool3 +2
Jan 11: BOS-SFO UA1523, Jan 12: SFO-ICN UA893
margarita girl
Jan 12: BOS-SFO UA433, SFO-ICN UA893
Zebranz
14 Jan: BOS-SFO UA433 to SFO-ICN UA893
ORDOGG
19 Jan: ICN-SFO UA892 to SFO-ORD UA698 to ORD-BOS UA961
ORDOGG
Jan 22: ICN-SFO UA892 SFO-BOS UA500
margarita girl
Feb 5: ICN-SFO UA892 SFO-BOS UA242
Zebranz
CMB-DFW EY F
FARE IS GONE
FARE RULES (thanks to SQ421)
FRTLK Fare Rules (RT)
FOWLK Fare Rules (OW)
WHEN ARE YOU FLYING?
Feel free to add any additional cities you're leaving from!
Please slot yourselves in!!!
ex-CMB
Feb
Mar
8 - Darmajaya
12 - Thaidai
22 - Deadinabsentia
Apr
21 - SQ421, penegal, jozdemir
26 - tahsir21
May
28 - Upperdeck744
29 - bonsaisai (positioning flights SIN-CMB, DFW-ORD)
Jun
12 - lelee
Jul
7 - HansGolden +6
8 - arcticbull + 1
11 - bonsaisai's friend (positioning flights: SIN-CMB, DFW-MCI)
25 - Tycosiao
30 - bonsaisai's friend (positioning flights: MCI-DFW, CMB-SIN)
Aug
17 - DC777Fan
26 - Yi Yang
31 - dcas
Sep
Oct
Nov
8 - harryhv
29 - stephem+4
Dec
6 - roastpuff and (soon) Mrs. roastpuff , JFKEZE (UL Code-share)
7 - DWFI
10 - jlisi984 + dad (CMB-AUH-DFW)
21 - bonsaisai (positioning flights SIN-CMB, DFW-ORD)
ex-AUH
Jan
Feb
Mar
Apr
27 - RICHKLHS
May
Jun
29 - yerffej201
Jul
9 - HansGolden +6
27 - Tycosiao
Aug
Sep
Oct
Nov
30 - stephem+4 (to JFK)
Dec
7 - JFKEZE, DWFI [EY161 nonstop]
9 - roastpuff and (soon) Mrs. Roastpuff
ex-DFW
Jan
Feb
Mar
14 - Thaidai
15 - zainman +1
Apr
25 - SQ421, penegal, jozdemir
May
Jun
Jul
Aug
22 - arcticbull + 1
Sep
22 - bonsaisai (positioning flights ORD-DFW, CMB-SIN)
Oct
Nov
19 - harryhv->Paris
Dec
19 - Yi Yang, jona970318
24 - DWFI (EY160 nonstop)
26 - HansGolden +6 (CDG), LwoodY2K (AUH)
The current CTA decision on the Yangon deal is only for tickets canceled by SWISS Airlines for the seven merged complaints/companions and tickets canceled by Jet Airways for one complainant and companions
- It's not about other carriers because each carrier submits different tariffs.
- If you are not one of the complainants or their companions above who were mentioned in the respective cases, you need to submit a case yourself for hearing.
- There's currently one person who is on Iberia for CTA decision, one can either wait for results or submit a complaint to CTA.
Result of the current case for LX in brief is:
- CTA found 5(F) in the tariff used to be unclear for canceling tickets on erroneously quoted fares.
- 5(F) is unjust and unreasonable and must be revised or taken down by July 9, 2013 (or SWISS can appeal by then)
- SWISS did not use its tariff correctly to cancel the tickets.
- SWISS must compensate one complainant's First Class ticket and any related expenses by July 18, 2013 provided with evidence.
- SWISS must transport other complainants (and their companions) in the original price charged with same booking class and routing by June 18, 2014.
Result of the current case for 9W in brief is:
- Tariff on file had no clauses for "erroneous fares" and was updated subsequently, which means it is not relevant to this event
- Therefore, 9W is to reinstate the tickets with a 1-year validity for transport between the same points and the same booking class.
CTA official news can be read here for general overview of the case.
Actual CTA case review can be found here for reference should you wish to file a complaint.
If you have a similar case that's with SWISS, you need to file with CTA to get a result through informal process first before it gets to formal process. The entire procedure can take up to 3 months for each and the result may not be same cause it's case-by-base and the reviewer of the case can be different.
To file an informal complaint with CTA, see here. Click through all of the pages to get to the online form for the informal complaint. Or click here.
To file a formal complaint after informal complaint has been closed, see here. Continue on to the next page to see the address or email address for the formal complaint.
The July 17th and 18th responses from LX can be found here:
Other Letters:
Feel free to add dates, flights, etc., in order to plan DOs, etc.
Aug 4: SFO-ICN (UA893)
Jason8612
Aug 5: ICN-SFO (UA892)
Jason8612
Aug 7: SFO-ICN (UA893)
Jason8612
Aug 11: ICN-NRT-ORD (UA78, UA882)
Jason8612
Aug 14: BOS-IAD-NRT-ICN (UA285, UA803, UA79)
Deltspygt
Aug 19: ICN-NRT-IAD-BOS (UA78, UA804, UA352)
Deltspygt
Oct 1: UA433-UA893
JeredF +1
Oct 8: UA892-UA242
JeredF +1
Oct 9: BOS-SFO-ICN (UA433, UA893)
BigJC
Oct 13: ICN-NRT-ORD-BOS (UA78, UA882, UA744)
BigJC
Oct 21: BOS-SFO UA433 to SFO-ICN UA893
Sterndogg +1
flyerdude88 (SFO - ICN portion only)
Oct 23: ICN - SFO UA 892
flyerdude88
Oct 27: ICN-SFO UA892 to SFO-BOS UA286
Sterndogg +1
Nov 05: BOS-ORD UA521, ORD-NRT UA881
kokonutz, I012609, BingoSF +1
Nov 11: ICN-SFO UA892, SFO-IAD UA727
kokonutz, I012609, BingoSF +1
Nov 26: BOS-SFO UA433, SFO-NRT UA837, NRT-ICN UA79
thepla
Nov 27: BOS-ORD-NRT-ICN (UA501, UA881, UA196)
BigJC+1
Nov 29: Planning 2 days in TPE, been to ICN
thepla
Dec 1: ICN-SFO UA892, SFO-ORD UA698, ORD-BOS UA961
thepla
Dec 1: ICN-NRT-IAD-BOS (UA78, UA804, UA822)
BigJC+1
Dec 15: BOS-SFO UA433, SFO-ICN UA893
songzm
Dec 25: BOS-IAD UA285, IAD-NRT UA803, NRT-ICN UA79
Dinoscool3 +2
Dec 30: ICN-SFO UA892, SFO-BOS UA444
songzm
Dec 31: ICN-SFO UA892, SFO-BOS UA770
Dinoscool3 +2
Jan 11: BOS-SFO UA1523, Jan 12: SFO-ICN UA893
margarita girl
Jan 12: BOS-SFO UA433, SFO-ICN UA893
Zebranz
14 Jan: BOS-SFO UA433 to SFO-ICN UA893
ORDOGG
19 Jan: ICN-SFO UA892 to SFO-ORD UA698 to ORD-BOS UA961
ORDOGG
Jan 22: ICN-SFO UA892 SFO-BOS UA500
margarita girl
Feb 5: ICN-SFO UA892 SFO-BOS UA242
Zebranz
CMB-DFW EY F
FARE IS GONE
FARE RULES (thanks to SQ421)
FRTLK Fare Rules (RT)
FOWLK Fare Rules (OW)
WHEN ARE YOU FLYING?
Feel free to add any additional cities you're leaving from!
Please slot yourselves in!!!
ex-CMB
Feb
Mar
8 - Darmajaya
12 - Thaidai
22 - Deadinabsentia
Apr
21 - SQ421, penegal, jozdemir
26 - tahsir21
May
28 - Upperdeck744
29 - bonsaisai (positioning flights SIN-CMB, DFW-ORD)
Jun
12 - lelee
Jul
7 - HansGolden +6
8 - arcticbull + 1
11 - bonsaisai's friend (positioning flights: SIN-CMB, DFW-MCI)
25 - Tycosiao
30 - bonsaisai's friend (positioning flights: MCI-DFW, CMB-SIN)
Aug
17 - DC777Fan
26 - Yi Yang
31 - dcas
Sep
Oct
Nov
8 - harryhv
29 - stephem+4
Dec
6 - roastpuff and (soon) Mrs. roastpuff , JFKEZE (UL Code-share)
7 - DWFI
10 - jlisi984 + dad (CMB-AUH-DFW)
21 - bonsaisai (positioning flights SIN-CMB, DFW-ORD)
ex-AUH
Jan
Feb
Mar
Apr
27 - RICHKLHS
May
Jun
29 - yerffej201
Jul
9 - HansGolden +6
27 - Tycosiao
Aug
Sep
Oct
Nov
30 - stephem+4 (to JFK)
Dec
7 - JFKEZE, DWFI [EY161 nonstop]
9 - roastpuff and (soon) Mrs. Roastpuff
ex-DFW
Jan
Feb
Mar
14 - Thaidai
15 - zainman +1
Apr
25 - SQ421, penegal, jozdemir
May
Jun
Jul
Aug
22 - arcticbull + 1
Sep
22 - bonsaisai (positioning flights ORD-DFW, CMB-SIN)
Oct
Nov
19 - harryhv->Paris
Dec
19 - Yi Yang, jona970318
24 - DWFI (EY160 nonstop)
26 - HansGolden +6 (CDG), LwoodY2K (AUH)
[PREM FARE GONE] RGN First class comes back again!!!!
Feb 21, 2014, 12:33 pm
#9931
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 681
I received the email from the CTA just now. Trying to parse the legalese.
It appears to:
1. Grant an expedited hearing for 3 (named) of the 83 petitioners because they tried to sue Swiss in the US.
2. Deny (another) petition by Swiss to delay.
3. Allow five other petitioners to join this complaint. New total: 88, consolidated in one case: 13-06641.
Swiss must respond to complainants by March 24. Afterward, complainants have until April 4th to respond.
It appears to:
1. Grant an expedited hearing for 3 (named) of the 83 petitioners because they tried to sue Swiss in the US.
2. Deny (another) petition by Swiss to delay.
3. Allow five other petitioners to join this complaint. New total: 88, consolidated in one case: 13-06641.
Swiss must respond to complainants by March 24. Afterward, complainants have until April 4th to respond.
Last edited by Potreroflyr; Feb 21, 2014 at 1:22 pm Reason: spelling
Feb 21, 2014, 12:40 pm
#9932
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: ZRH, CGN
Programs: AA Gold, *G
Posts: 257
I received the email from the CTA just now. Trying to parse the legalese.
It appears to:
1. Grant an expedited hearing for 3 (named) of the 83 petitioners because they tried to sue Swiss in the US.
2. Deny (another) petition by Swiss to delay.
3. Allow five other petitioners to join this complaint. New total: 88, consolidated in one case: 13-06641.
Swiss must response to complainants by March 24. Afterward, complainants have until April 4th to respond.
It appears to:
1. Grant an expedited hearing for 3 (named) of the 83 petitioners because they tried to sue Swiss in the US.
2. Deny (another) petition by Swiss to delay.
3. Allow five other petitioners to join this complaint. New total: 88, consolidated in one case: 13-06641.
Swiss must response to complainants by March 24. Afterward, complainants have until April 4th to respond.
Feb 21, 2014, 12:42 pm
#9933
Suspended
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Tucson, AZ, USA. UA 1K, reluctant but * best in class * DL FO/MM. Former BA jumpseat rider and scourge of Dilbertian management and apologists. As LX might - and do - say: "....an experienced frequent flyer of international airlines"
Posts: 3,386
Yes - but only a quick scan. My understanding:
Five additional complaints added.
Pleadings opened for three cases, apparently on the grounds of concluded litigation elsewhere.
No further abeyance on the appeal (so presumably, that's why CTA formal adjudication now proceeds.)
CTA to adjudicate the question (1): the "serious question" of the validity of Tarriff 5F, the "technical error" and related interpretations.
Adjudication process.
Swiss given until March 24th to respond.
Complainants given until April 4th to present arguments/respond to Swiss.
OK, let's go again... now there are eighty-plus complainants, I mean, "experienced frequent flyers of international airlines," there ought to be enough brainpower to address the predictable response from Swiss, and to highlight their contradictions and hypocrisy over the past 18 months. As well as their admittedly impressive efforts to stall judicial review and prevent reddress against their reneging.
Note the verbiage about confidentiality. Although the CTA can prevent web-crawlers and standard I-net search text indexing during the adjudication/reporting process, that safeguard only lasts as long as the documents aren't AIA'd and then posted.
Five additional complaints added.
Pleadings opened for three cases, apparently on the grounds of concluded litigation elsewhere.
No further abeyance on the appeal (so presumably, that's why CTA formal adjudication now proceeds.)
CTA to adjudicate the question (1): the "serious question" of the validity of Tarriff 5F, the "technical error" and related interpretations.
Adjudication process.
Swiss given until March 24th to respond.
Complainants given until April 4th to present arguments/respond to Swiss.
OK, let's go again... now there are eighty-plus complainants, I mean, "experienced frequent flyers of international airlines," there ought to be enough brainpower to address the predictable response from Swiss, and to highlight their contradictions and hypocrisy over the past 18 months. As well as their admittedly impressive efforts to stall judicial review and prevent reddress against their reneging.
Note the verbiage about confidentiality. Although the CTA can prevent web-crawlers and standard I-net search text indexing during the adjudication/reporting process, that safeguard only lasts as long as the documents aren't AIA'd and then posted.
Feb 21, 2014, 1:16 pm
#9934
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Penang, Malaysia
Programs: OZ *G, HHonors Gold, Aclub Plat
Posts: 1,025
I'm one of the 83 and just got the email/letter. Looks like Swiss has to March 24 to make a case/respond.
Some more waiting I guess unless Swiss gives in the white flag (unlikely :P)
Some more waiting I guess unless Swiss gives in the white flag (unlikely :P)
Feb 21, 2014, 1:16 pm
#9935
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Multiple locations
Programs: AAdvantage ExPlat LT Gold, BA Silver, Aegean Star Gold
Posts: 5,038
I received the email from the CTA just now. Trying to parse the legalese.
It appears to:
1. Grant an expedited hearing for 3 (named) of the 83 petitioners because they tried to sue Swiss in the US.
2. Deny (another) petition by Swiss to delay.
3. Allow five other petitioners to join this complaint. New total: 88, consolidated in one case: 13-06641.
Swiss must response to complainants by March 24. Afterward, complainants have until April 4th to respond.
It appears to:
1. Grant an expedited hearing for 3 (named) of the 83 petitioners because they tried to sue Swiss in the US.
2. Deny (another) petition by Swiss to delay.
3. Allow five other petitioners to join this complaint. New total: 88, consolidated in one case: 13-06641.
Swiss must response to complainants by March 24. Afterward, complainants have until April 4th to respond.
Disclosure: Hi LX lawyers, glad you are able to milk the LX cow for another month of legal fees… don’t forget to charge 1/10 of an hour per post 
Feb 21, 2014, 1:25 pm
#9936
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 681
I have only been tracking this sporadically since the ruling for the Yangon 7. Is there any sentiment that the (now) 88 plaintiffs should/could compile some common language/bullet points to use in our responses to Swiss (assuming they comply with the March 24th deadline to make their arguments)?
Feb 21, 2014, 1:55 pm
#9939
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: 10^7 mm from Ȱ
Programs: Hyatt D/HHonors D/ SPG P/ Marriott P/ IHG P/ UA 1K/ AA EXP/ DL D
Posts: 1,976
I am more curious why their cases have to be expedited?
Feb 21, 2014, 2:47 pm
#9940
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 681
Didn't Swiss make this same case before -- that those who previously sued in US courts aren't eligible to bring another complaint before the CTA -- and didn't the CTA dismiss that argument?
And a Google group sounds like a good idea!
And a Google group sounds like a good idea!
Feb 21, 2014, 3:18 pm
#9941
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,345
1) I presume the 3 cases are expedited due to the possibility of applying res judicata. What happened in those 3 cases?
2) Has anyone recently written a letter to LX congratulating them on hiring a firm with high billables that will over the long run cost them more in legal fees than letting you fly? In addition to the collateral damage of bad publicity that may/will result in continuing such litigation.
2) Has anyone recently written a letter to LX congratulating them on hiring a firm with high billables that will over the long run cost them more in legal fees than letting you fly? In addition to the collateral damage of bad publicity that may/will result in continuing such litigation.
Feb 21, 2014, 3:25 pm
#9942
Join Date: Dec 2004
Programs: UA-1K, MM, Hilton-Diamond, Marriott-Titanium
Posts: 4,432
1) I presume the 3 cases are expedited due to the possibility of applying res judicata. What happened in those 3 cases?
2) Has anyone recently written a letter to LX congratulating them on hiring a firm with high billables that will over the long run cost them more in legal fees than letting you fly? In addition to the collateral damage of bad publicity that may/will result in continuing such litigation.
2) Has anyone recently written a letter to LX congratulating them on hiring a firm with high billables that will over the long run cost them more in legal fees than letting you fly? In addition to the collateral damage of bad publicity that may/will result in continuing such litigation.
Feb 21, 2014, 3:26 pm
#9943
Join Date: Dec 2004
Programs: UA-1K, MM, Hilton-Diamond, Marriott-Titanium
Posts: 4,432
YES. CTA said results of a SCC case in Union County, NJ had no bearing on Canadian law.
Feb 21, 2014, 3:33 pm
#9944
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: YVR
Programs: AE, MP, DL, AA, Accor Platinum (But aren't we all?)
Posts: 268
Res Judicate roughly translates to "the matter has been adjudicated/decided" which means it was already before the courts and can't be decided again. Similar to the "double jeopardy" concept in criminal law where a person can't be tried for the same crime twice.
Feb 21, 2014, 3:35 pm
#9945
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: YVR
Programs: AE, MP, DL, AA, Accor Platinum (But aren't we all?)
Posts: 268
It may be expedited so that the res judicata issue can be decided and resolved in time for them to be joined with the case of the rest of the folks in case SWISS' objection is dismissed?