Jun 19, 2013, 9:45 pm
Last edit by: fti
People, please edit/use the wiki so same questions are not always asked.
The current CTA decision on the Yangon deal is only for tickets canceled by SWISS Airlines for the seven merged complaints/companions and tickets canceled by Jet Airways for one complainant and companions
- It's not about other carriers because each carrier submits different tariffs.
- If you are not one of the complainants or their companions above who were mentioned in the respective cases, you need to submit a case yourself for hearing.
- There's currently one person who is on Iberia for CTA decision, one can either wait for results or submit a complaint to CTA.
Result of the current case for LX in brief is:
- CTA found 5(F) in the tariff used to be unclear for canceling tickets on erroneously quoted fares.
- 5(F) is unjust and unreasonable and must be revised or taken down by July 9, 2013 (or SWISS can appeal by then)
- SWISS did not use its tariff correctly to cancel the tickets.
- SWISS must compensate one complainant's First Class ticket and any related expenses by July 18, 2013 provided with evidence.
- SWISS must transport other complainants (and their companions) in the original price charged with same booking class and routing by June 18, 2014.
Result of the current case for 9W in brief is:
- Tariff on file had no clauses for "erroneous fares" and was updated subsequently, which means it is not relevant to this event
- Therefore, 9W is to reinstate the tickets with a 1-year validity for transport between the same points and the same booking class.
CTA official news can be read here for general overview of the case.
Actual CTA case review can be found here for reference should you wish to file a complaint.
If you have a similar case that's with SWISS, you need to file with CTA to get a result through informal process first before it gets to formal process. The entire procedure can take up to 3 months for each and the result may not be same cause it's case-by-base and the reviewer of the case can be different.
To file an informal complaint with CTA, see here. Click through all of the pages to get to the online form for the informal complaint. Or click here.
To file a formal complaint after informal complaint has been closed, see here. Continue on to the next page to see the address or email address for the formal complaint.
The July 17th and 18th responses from LX can be found here:
Other Letters:
Feel free to add dates, flights, etc., in order to plan DOs, etc.
Aug 4: SFO-ICN (UA893)
Jason8612
Aug 5: ICN-SFO (UA892)
Jason8612
Aug 7: SFO-ICN (UA893)
Jason8612
Aug 11: ICN-NRT-ORD (UA78, UA882)
Jason8612
Aug 14: BOS-IAD-NRT-ICN (UA285, UA803, UA79)
Deltspygt
Aug 19: ICN-NRT-IAD-BOS (UA78, UA804, UA352)
Deltspygt
Oct 1: UA433-UA893
JeredF +1
Oct 8: UA892-UA242
JeredF +1
Oct 9: BOS-SFO-ICN (UA433, UA893)
BigJC
Oct 13: ICN-NRT-ORD-BOS (UA78, UA882, UA744)
BigJC
Oct 21: BOS-SFO UA433 to SFO-ICN UA893
Sterndogg +1
flyerdude88 (SFO - ICN portion only)
Oct 23: ICN - SFO UA 892
flyerdude88
Oct 27: ICN-SFO UA892 to SFO-BOS UA286
Sterndogg +1
Nov 05: BOS-ORD UA521, ORD-NRT UA881
kokonutz, I012609, BingoSF +1
Nov 11: ICN-SFO UA892, SFO-IAD UA727
kokonutz, I012609, BingoSF +1
Nov 26: BOS-SFO UA433, SFO-NRT UA837, NRT-ICN UA79
thepla
Nov 27: BOS-ORD-NRT-ICN (UA501, UA881, UA196)
BigJC+1
Nov 29: Planning 2 days in TPE, been to ICN
thepla
Dec 1: ICN-SFO UA892, SFO-ORD UA698, ORD-BOS UA961
thepla
Dec 1: ICN-NRT-IAD-BOS (UA78, UA804, UA822)
BigJC+1
Dec 15: BOS-SFO UA433, SFO-ICN UA893
songzm
Dec 25: BOS-IAD UA285, IAD-NRT UA803, NRT-ICN UA79
Dinoscool3 +2
Dec 30: ICN-SFO UA892, SFO-BOS UA444
songzm
Dec 31: ICN-SFO UA892, SFO-BOS UA770
Dinoscool3 +2
Jan 11: BOS-SFO UA1523, Jan 12: SFO-ICN UA893
margarita girl
Jan 12: BOS-SFO UA433, SFO-ICN UA893
Zebranz
14 Jan: BOS-SFO UA433 to SFO-ICN UA893
ORDOGG
19 Jan: ICN-SFO UA892 to SFO-ORD UA698 to ORD-BOS UA961
ORDOGG
Jan 22: ICN-SFO UA892 SFO-BOS UA500
margarita girl
Feb 5: ICN-SFO UA892 SFO-BOS UA242
Zebranz
CMB-DFW EY F
FARE IS GONE
FARE RULES (thanks to SQ421)
FRTLK Fare Rules (RT)
FOWLK Fare Rules (OW)
WHEN ARE YOU FLYING?
Feel free to add any additional cities you're leaving from!
Please slot yourselves in!!!
ex-CMB
Feb
Mar
8 - Darmajaya
12 - Thaidai
22 - Deadinabsentia
Apr
21 - SQ421, penegal, jozdemir
26 - tahsir21
May
28 - Upperdeck744
29 - bonsaisai (positioning flights SIN-CMB, DFW-ORD)
Jun
12 - lelee
Jul
7 - HansGolden +6
8 - arcticbull + 1
11 - bonsaisai's friend (positioning flights: SIN-CMB, DFW-MCI)
25 - Tycosiao
30 - bonsaisai's friend (positioning flights: MCI-DFW, CMB-SIN)
Aug
17 - DC777Fan
26 - Yi Yang
31 - dcas
Sep
Oct
Nov
8 - harryhv
29 - stephem+4
Dec
6 - roastpuff and (soon) Mrs. roastpuff , JFKEZE (UL Code-share)
7 - DWFI
10 - jlisi984 + dad (CMB-AUH-DFW)
21 - bonsaisai (positioning flights SIN-CMB, DFW-ORD)
ex-AUH
Jan
Feb
Mar
Apr
27 - RICHKLHS
May
Jun
29 - yerffej201
Jul
9 - HansGolden +6
27 - Tycosiao
Aug
Sep
Oct
Nov
30 - stephem+4 (to JFK)
Dec
7 - JFKEZE, DWFI [EY161 nonstop]
9 - roastpuff and (soon) Mrs. Roastpuff
ex-DFW
Jan
Feb
Mar
14 - Thaidai
15 - zainman +1
Apr
25 - SQ421, penegal, jozdemir
May
Jun
Jul
Aug
22 - arcticbull + 1
Sep
22 - bonsaisai (positioning flights ORD-DFW, CMB-SIN)
Oct
Nov
19 - harryhv->Paris
Dec
19 - Yi Yang, jona970318
24 - DWFI (EY160 nonstop)
26 - HansGolden +6 (CDG), LwoodY2K (AUH)
The current CTA decision on the Yangon deal is only for tickets canceled by SWISS Airlines for the seven merged complaints/companions and tickets canceled by Jet Airways for one complainant and companions
- It's not about other carriers because each carrier submits different tariffs.
- If you are not one of the complainants or their companions above who were mentioned in the respective cases, you need to submit a case yourself for hearing.
- There's currently one person who is on Iberia for CTA decision, one can either wait for results or submit a complaint to CTA.
Result of the current case for LX in brief is:
- CTA found 5(F) in the tariff used to be unclear for canceling tickets on erroneously quoted fares.
- 5(F) is unjust and unreasonable and must be revised or taken down by July 9, 2013 (or SWISS can appeal by then)
- SWISS did not use its tariff correctly to cancel the tickets.
- SWISS must compensate one complainant's First Class ticket and any related expenses by July 18, 2013 provided with evidence.
- SWISS must transport other complainants (and their companions) in the original price charged with same booking class and routing by June 18, 2014.
Result of the current case for 9W in brief is:
- Tariff on file had no clauses for "erroneous fares" and was updated subsequently, which means it is not relevant to this event
- Therefore, 9W is to reinstate the tickets with a 1-year validity for transport between the same points and the same booking class.
CTA official news can be read here for general overview of the case.
Actual CTA case review can be found here for reference should you wish to file a complaint.
If you have a similar case that's with SWISS, you need to file with CTA to get a result through informal process first before it gets to formal process. The entire procedure can take up to 3 months for each and the result may not be same cause it's case-by-base and the reviewer of the case can be different.
To file an informal complaint with CTA, see here. Click through all of the pages to get to the online form for the informal complaint. Or click here.
To file a formal complaint after informal complaint has been closed, see here. Continue on to the next page to see the address or email address for the formal complaint.
The July 17th and 18th responses from LX can be found here:
Other Letters:
Feel free to add dates, flights, etc., in order to plan DOs, etc.
Aug 4: SFO-ICN (UA893)
Jason8612
Aug 5: ICN-SFO (UA892)
Jason8612
Aug 7: SFO-ICN (UA893)
Jason8612
Aug 11: ICN-NRT-ORD (UA78, UA882)
Jason8612
Aug 14: BOS-IAD-NRT-ICN (UA285, UA803, UA79)
Deltspygt
Aug 19: ICN-NRT-IAD-BOS (UA78, UA804, UA352)
Deltspygt
Oct 1: UA433-UA893
JeredF +1
Oct 8: UA892-UA242
JeredF +1
Oct 9: BOS-SFO-ICN (UA433, UA893)
BigJC
Oct 13: ICN-NRT-ORD-BOS (UA78, UA882, UA744)
BigJC
Oct 21: BOS-SFO UA433 to SFO-ICN UA893
Sterndogg +1
flyerdude88 (SFO - ICN portion only)
Oct 23: ICN - SFO UA 892
flyerdude88
Oct 27: ICN-SFO UA892 to SFO-BOS UA286
Sterndogg +1
Nov 05: BOS-ORD UA521, ORD-NRT UA881
kokonutz, I012609, BingoSF +1
Nov 11: ICN-SFO UA892, SFO-IAD UA727
kokonutz, I012609, BingoSF +1
Nov 26: BOS-SFO UA433, SFO-NRT UA837, NRT-ICN UA79
thepla
Nov 27: BOS-ORD-NRT-ICN (UA501, UA881, UA196)
BigJC+1
Nov 29: Planning 2 days in TPE, been to ICN
thepla
Dec 1: ICN-SFO UA892, SFO-ORD UA698, ORD-BOS UA961
thepla
Dec 1: ICN-NRT-IAD-BOS (UA78, UA804, UA822)
BigJC+1
Dec 15: BOS-SFO UA433, SFO-ICN UA893
songzm
Dec 25: BOS-IAD UA285, IAD-NRT UA803, NRT-ICN UA79
Dinoscool3 +2
Dec 30: ICN-SFO UA892, SFO-BOS UA444
songzm
Dec 31: ICN-SFO UA892, SFO-BOS UA770
Dinoscool3 +2
Jan 11: BOS-SFO UA1523, Jan 12: SFO-ICN UA893
margarita girl
Jan 12: BOS-SFO UA433, SFO-ICN UA893
Zebranz
14 Jan: BOS-SFO UA433 to SFO-ICN UA893
ORDOGG
19 Jan: ICN-SFO UA892 to SFO-ORD UA698 to ORD-BOS UA961
ORDOGG
Jan 22: ICN-SFO UA892 SFO-BOS UA500
margarita girl
Feb 5: ICN-SFO UA892 SFO-BOS UA242
Zebranz
CMB-DFW EY F
FARE IS GONE
FARE RULES (thanks to SQ421)
FRTLK Fare Rules (RT)
FOWLK Fare Rules (OW)
WHEN ARE YOU FLYING?
Feel free to add any additional cities you're leaving from!
Please slot yourselves in!!!
ex-CMB
Feb
Mar
8 - Darmajaya
12 - Thaidai
22 - Deadinabsentia
Apr
21 - SQ421, penegal, jozdemir
26 - tahsir21
May
28 - Upperdeck744
29 - bonsaisai (positioning flights SIN-CMB, DFW-ORD)
Jun
12 - lelee
Jul
7 - HansGolden +6
8 - arcticbull + 1
11 - bonsaisai's friend (positioning flights: SIN-CMB, DFW-MCI)
25 - Tycosiao
30 - bonsaisai's friend (positioning flights: MCI-DFW, CMB-SIN)
Aug
17 - DC777Fan
26 - Yi Yang
31 - dcas
Sep
Oct
Nov
8 - harryhv
29 - stephem+4
Dec
6 - roastpuff and (soon) Mrs. roastpuff , JFKEZE (UL Code-share)
7 - DWFI
10 - jlisi984 + dad (CMB-AUH-DFW)
21 - bonsaisai (positioning flights SIN-CMB, DFW-ORD)
ex-AUH
Jan
Feb
Mar
Apr
27 - RICHKLHS
May
Jun
29 - yerffej201
Jul
9 - HansGolden +6
27 - Tycosiao
Aug
Sep
Oct
Nov
30 - stephem+4 (to JFK)
Dec
7 - JFKEZE, DWFI [EY161 nonstop]
9 - roastpuff and (soon) Mrs. Roastpuff
ex-DFW
Jan
Feb
Mar
14 - Thaidai
15 - zainman +1
Apr
25 - SQ421, penegal, jozdemir
May
Jun
Jul
Aug
22 - arcticbull + 1
Sep
22 - bonsaisai (positioning flights ORD-DFW, CMB-SIN)
Oct
Nov
19 - harryhv->Paris
Dec
19 - Yi Yang, jona970318
24 - DWFI (EY160 nonstop)
26 - HansGolden +6 (CDG), LwoodY2K (AUH)
[PREM FARE GONE] RGN First class comes back again!!!!
Feb 13, 2014, 3:11 pm
#9841
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Seattle
Programs: AS MVPG 75K
Posts: 2,574
It looks like A-402-13 will go forward, as CTA's motion to quash the application for judicial review has been dismissed. Additionally, Swiss's motion to stay the Decision was granted.
Order dated 13-FEB-2014 rendered by The Honourable Madam Justice Sharlow Matter considered without personal appearance
The Court's decision is with regard to the motion / document number 6
Result: dismissed in part
1. The motion to quash this application for judicial review is dismissed.
2. The dismissal of the motion to quash does not and is not intended to preclude the Agency from arguing, if and when this application is heard on the merits, that this Court does not have the statutory authority to hear this application.
3. The motion to stay this application for judicial review pending the disposition of the petition of Swiss to the Governor-in-Council is granted.
4. No costs are awarded on the motion.
Filed on 13-FEB-2014 copies sent to parties
Transmittal Letters placed on file. entered in J. & O. Book, volume 282 page(s) 287 - 289
The Court's decision is with regard to the motion / document number 6
Result: dismissed in part
1. The motion to quash this application for judicial review is dismissed.
2. The dismissal of the motion to quash does not and is not intended to preclude the Agency from arguing, if and when this application is heard on the merits, that this Court does not have the statutory authority to hear this application.
3. The motion to stay this application for judicial review pending the disposition of the petition of Swiss to the Governor-in-Council is granted.
4. No costs are awarded on the motion.
Filed on 13-FEB-2014 copies sent to parties
Transmittal Letters placed on file. entered in J. & O. Book, volume 282 page(s) 287 - 289
Feb 13, 2014, 7:26 pm
#9844
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Multiple locations
Programs: AAdvantage ExPlat LT Gold, BA Silver, Aegean Star Gold
Posts: 5,038
Got the letter from DAVIS, there are 80 names/cases on it.
So lets assume 1mn in legal fees so far, at 12,500 a case, LX is still spending money like it's going out of fashion.
In the end, they might have to put all of us back on our routes, if things work out, so just imagine the total cost...
Hehe
So lets assume 1mn in legal fees so far, at 12,500 a case, LX is still spending money like it's going out of fashion.
In the end, they might have to put all of us back on our routes, if things work out, so just imagine the total cost...
Hehe
Feb 13, 2014, 7:33 pm
#9845
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: So Cal
Programs: UA Gold/0.744MM, WN AL, Hyatt Diamond, MR Scum, Hertz PC, National Exec, Avis PC
Posts: 5,561
I'm confused, how many letters went out today? I got the email from Davis with the request for a continued stay pending the appeal to Governor in Council (the one with 80 names at the end). Is there another one that some people got?
Feb 13, 2014, 7:57 pm
#9846
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 389
See post #9662 for those of you (like me!) who've lost track of what A-402-13 is. Someone should correct me if I'm wrong, but as I understand it, although the Federal Court of Appeal (a while ago) declined to hear LX's appeal of CTA's original decision in the case, and (a few days ago) declined to hear LX's appeal of CTA's final decision to throw out Tariff Rule 5(F) after the show-cause process, there *will* be a judicial review of CTA's rejection of LX's claim that CTA should reconsider their original decision based on "new facts or circumstances" that arose [though that review is stayed pending the appeal to the Governor-in-Council, which could render the whole thing moot].
Feb 13, 2014, 8:00 pm
#9847
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Penang, Malaysia
Programs: OZ *G, HHonors Gold, Aclub Plat
Posts: 1,025
See post #9662 for those of you (like me!) who've lost track of what A-402-13 is. Someone should correct me if I'm wrong, but as I understand it, although the Federal Court of Appeal (a while ago) declined to hear LX's appeal of CTA's original decision in the case, and (a few days ago) declined to hear LX's appeal of CTA's final decision to throw out Tariff Rule 5(F) after the show-cause process, there *will* be a judicial review of CTA's rejection of LX's claim that CTA should reconsider their original decision based on "new facts or circumstances" that arose [though that review is stayed pending the appeal to the Governor-in-Council, which could render the whole thing moot].
Feb 13, 2014, 8:14 pm
#9848
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 389
1) Per BrewerSEA, a federal court denied CTA's motion to dismiss A-402-13.
2) The letter from LX to CTA with a list of 80 names at the end, which just asks that the stay of our proceedings (the Feb 12 deadline) be extended, since the appeal to the Governor-in-Council is still pending. This will presumably be granted.
Feb 13, 2014, 9:28 pm
#9849
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Seat 2A
Programs: AA EXP LT GLD 1MM, BA GLD, NH/UA*G, Hyatt Dia, Marr Tit LT PLT, IHG Spire,HH Dia, MGM NOIR,Hertz PC
Posts: 10,571
Don't worry about this. Time will work for us. The longer this takes the better so I can push this ticket into 2015 for *G requalification and concentrate on BA Gold this year. 
Feb 13, 2014, 10:07 pm
#9850
Community Director Emerita
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Anywhere warm
Posts: 33,750
I assume that the 80 names are a total of all who have filed? I was part of the group who received LET-C-A-3-2014 dated January 22, 2014. I have received nothing today.
The current 80 names likely represent more than 80. I was allowed to combine my husband's complaint with mine.
The current 80 names likely represent more than 80. I was allowed to combine my husband's complaint with mine.
Feb 13, 2014, 10:15 pm
#9851
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: AU
Programs: former Olympic Airways Gold (yeah - still proud of that!)
Posts: 14,406
See post #9662 for those of you (like me!) who've lost track of what A-402-13 is. Someone should correct me if I'm wrong, but as I understand it, although the Federal Court of Appeal (a while ago) declined to hear LX's appeal of CTA's original decision in the case, and (a few days ago) declined to hear LX's appeal of CTA's final decision to throw out Tariff Rule 5(F) after the show-cause process, there *will* be a judicial review of CTA's rejection of LX's claim that CTA should reconsider their original decision based on "new facts or circumstances" that arose [though that review is stayed pending the appeal to the Governor-in-Council, which could render the whole thing moot].
I would probably agree with that. The CTA's decision on the tariff sounds about right.
but the CTA appeared ignore Supreme Court precedent which said an agency may re-open a case if it is in the interests of justice to do so.
it is the second part that will now be allowed.
Feb 13, 2014, 10:24 pm
#9852
Join Date: Dec 2004
Programs: UA-1K, MM, Hilton-Diamond, Marriott-Titanium
Posts: 4,432
I'm so confused... I didn't get an email today so don't know if I am on the list of 80. As counsel for LX wants to kick me out of the group (as I first tried the SCC route) maybe I didn't get the letter?
How do lawyers keep track of what they do?????
How do lawyers keep track of what they do?????
Feb 13, 2014, 10:25 pm
#9853
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Southern California
Programs: UA Platinum, Marriott Gold, SPG Gold, Club Carlson Gold
Posts: 317
Feb 13, 2014, 10:29 pm
#9854
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: SAT
Programs: AA EXP BA Gold, TK Gold, Hyatt Globalist, Hilton Diamond, AS 100K, QR PLT, SAS Gold, IHG Spire, AMR
Posts: 5,898
Feb 13, 2014, 10:45 pm
#9855
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: So Cal
Programs: UA Gold/0.744MM, WN AL, Hyatt Diamond, MR Scum, Hertz PC, National Exec, Avis PC
Posts: 5,561
I assume that the 80 names are a total of all who have filed? I was part of the group who received LET-C-A-3-2014 dated January 22, 2014. I have received nothing today.
The current 80 names likely represent more than 80. I was allowed to combine my husband's complaint with mine.
The current 80 names likely represent more than 80. I was allowed to combine my husband's complaint with mine.