Agreed.

I thought elderly folks wake up super early?

I hope that (Oscar recovers) and can get a bit of truth and reconciliation about the CLE closure. I wouldn't hold by breath but I think an admission that the real reason they withdrew was due to the need to quickly whack a bunch of RJ flying, and work with CLE to ensure that they stay in the key Cleveland markets.

When CLE was a SkyTeam hub, no EU ST member bothered sending a bird our way. When CLE was a Star Alliance hub, neither did an EU *A member. Why? Because it was CO and UA's job to make CLE TATL. CO did (a little); UA didn't.

Time marches on. CLE is no longer a hub. The only conceivable way to get TATL service ex-CLE is subsidizing it. But, why stick with *A? CLE is footloose and fancy free. Is FRA/LH the best choice? I ask you.

RNE, agreeing with entropy—though I wish he would stop disordering energy in the universe.

I don't see the need to have N/S TATL service on *A, I doubt sufficient demand exists for any single route, which means that most people will be connecting anyways. CLE has a fairly reliable connection via YYZ on AC, where traffic isn't the same kind of mess as EWR and ORD, and they've got expedited customs for US-3rd country travel. Speaking of customs, the current arrangement @ CLE sucks. Sure, I guess its "OK" enough for the occasional Caribbean flight but not for a full widebody.

OK, entropy. But entropy was talking about a corporate-paid route. I'm simply questioning if FRA makes the most sense (below). Perhaps you could discuss this with entropy, entropy, and let us know.

RNE, see what I mean about disorder. ;)

That's exactly it.

I think you are disordering what I said...

If some company, like EATON, decided it wanted a nonstop flight to its new tax HQ in Ireland, and told United they'd pay United or Aer Lingus or whoever for the flight who am I to argue with it. If they were willing to guarantee the flight to the needed margins then an airline would likely be fine doing it.

Others have suggested that the airport/city itself subsidize an international route. This is a bad idea.

I'm glad you two got that settled. ;)

Wonder what the severe WN cuts at CAK might mean come April at CLE, if anything. UA already will have seasonal Florida service that no other non-hub has; wonder if it could become year-round. UA and AA already have filled the gap for NYC service (UA starting CAK-EWR on Sunday; AA starting CAK-LGA next week) and are both trumpeting it on the electronic billboards on Akron-area expressways. SWA, who had been advertising on those, is now very quiet. UA could possibly get some business from jilted SWA travelers whose former AirTran routes are going away. I still remember Continental billboards in Akron over 10 years ago reading "A short drive beats a long layover" as a shot at having to connect on most carriers out of CAK; maybe UA could take a page from that.

I think the end is near for WN at CAK. They got an additional gate at CLE (B7) and I believe they have 6 gates now. Hopefully there will be more expansion which will be nice. They took away a flight to BWI and added one to Nashville which i'm not very fond of.

I wish the new regime at UA would add a few routes back to CLE. Had F9 not adding DFW only to disco it UA might still be flying it. Flew the FLL NS yesterday and today on UA 50% loads but its early in the year for FL. On the bright side for UA FC was oversold in paid seats going to FLL yesterday. Today however, I scored the FC UG on a $69 cheapo fare.

I could also see WN add CLE ATL and drop CAK.

I don't see the EWR CAK service working with AA adding LGA but one never knows.

It looks like Ultimate Air at BKL might be the salvation with service to some of the smaller business cities UA bailed on. Gibby Singerman would be proud to see BKL reborn although I'd bet Ultimate Air departs BKL for CLE just as Wright Airlines did if they are mildly successful.

I thought CLE was no longer a hub? I just booked LAX-CLE-MCO (!?)
 

At first glance, thought I had booked a flight LAX-MCO via ORD, then realized its actually via CLE, which I understood to no longer be a CLE hub

What gives

CLE is still a valid routing option on many flights, e.g. LAX-MCO KAA14ACS fare offers the fairly liberal routing options

De hubbing did not mean erasing the city from routing rules.

Western U.S. to Boston frequently books with in a connection in CLE. I'm fairly certain I've seen LGA flights also show up with a CLE connection too.

Not all connections are necessarily "hubs". In last year I've seen a slew of offered connections that do not involve "official" hubs - LAX-SAN-IAH, LAX-LAS-IAH, LAX-DFW-IAH, etc.