2009 Program Changes -- the good, the bad and the ugly
Oct 27, 2008 | 3:27 pm
#271
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2001
Location: MSY; 2-time FT Fantasy Football Champ, now in recovery.
Programs: AA lifetime GLD; UA Silver; Marriott LTTE; IHG Plat,
Posts: 14,813
I think the best I can do for you is to explain in greater detail what is currently happening and what will happen after January 15th in regard to capacity controls.
Currently all 365 nights of the year at all 3,000 plus hotels have restrictions on how many standard rooms can use reward points. On blackout dates no rooms are open for reward redemption. All other nights of the year hotels are required to open a certain percentage of their rooms for standard redemption. The percentage of rooms hotels are currently required to set aside on all non-black out nights is the same percentage they will have to set aside on the handful of nights when they will be allowed to limit redemption. For example, if XYZ hotels current mandatory inventory for reward redemption was 20 rooms per night on all non-blackout dates, when the program changes they will be required to offer at least 20 rooms for reward redemption on the hand full of nights when they have been allowed to limit inventory. On all other nights the hotel must release all of their standard rooms for reward redemption.
Currently all 365 nights of the year at all 3,000 plus hotels have restrictions on how many standard rooms can use reward points. On blackout dates no rooms are open for reward redemption. All other nights of the year hotels are required to open a certain percentage of their rooms for standard redemption. The percentage of rooms hotels are currently required to set aside on all non-black out nights is the same percentage they will have to set aside on the handful of nights when they will be allowed to limit redemption. For example, if XYZ hotels current mandatory inventory for reward redemption was 20 rooms per night on all non-blackout dates, when the program changes they will be required to offer at least 20 rooms for reward redemption on the hand full of nights when they have been allowed to limit inventory. On all other nights the hotel must release all of their standard rooms for reward redemption.
Oct 27, 2008 | 3:37 pm
#272
Original Poster
Company Representative - Marriott Concierge
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Posts: 1,083
There has been no change. Rome Marriott Grand Hotel Flora, Waikoloa Beach Marriott Resort and Spa, Wailea Beach Marriott, JW Camelback Inn, & JW Marriott Capri properties will be allowed limited black out dates.
Ira
Oct 27, 2008 | 4:17 pm
#273
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: NY, NY USA
Programs: Marriott Platinum, Continental Gold, American Airlines Platinum, Hertz Gold
Posts: 22
Contact a Reporter?
Hi all - I found this link thanks to a link on Marriott's Elite Member forum. I have a well known travel reporter who is willing to dig in and do an independant review of Marriott's changes - but he needs someone who will go on record with him and make statements. If anyone is interested, please email [email protected] - I'd like to put you in touch. Also, for those of you who are not able to access the elite website, I've posted some response from Marriott and a recap of some misleading issues at: http://sites.google.com/site/makemarriottlisten - Please visit and send any comments. It's nowhere near as well organized as flyertalk, but it helps spread a bit of truth about Marriott's intentions and treatment of customers. I'm mostly focused on the honesty behind the changes vs. Marriott's statements that these are not financial. Thanks for your help & standing up for members!
Also, after finding this site, I'm redirecting any visitors to my website onto this forum - it's much better than anything I can do. Hope you don't mind!
Also, after finding this site, I'm redirecting any visitors to my website onto this forum - it's much better than anything I can do. Hope you don't mind!
Last edited by makemarriottrewardslisten; Nov 7, 2008 at 1:56 pm
Oct 27, 2008 | 4:20 pm
#274
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: LAX
Programs: Marriott Ambassador LTT, IHG Platinum, AA LTG, UA Premier Silver, SQ Elite Silver, AC 25K
Posts: 253
Booooooooooooo !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I am a Platinum Member thru MVC and I like to trade for points.
Currently my property is worth Cat 7 150,000 for 7 nights
and members only recieve 90k points or 110,000 for platinum w/a $100 fee
now to stay in a Cat 7 for a week is 210,000 points OUCH
Please tell me that this is wrong
Rgds Rodger
I am a Platinum Member thru MVC and I like to trade for points.
Currently my property is worth Cat 7 150,000 for 7 nights
and members only recieve 90k points or 110,000 for platinum w/a $100 fee
now to stay in a Cat 7 for a week is 210,000 points OUCH
Please tell me that this is wrong
Rgds Rodger
Oct 27, 2008 | 4:42 pm
#275
Join Date: Oct 2008
Programs: Marriott Platinum, United MP Pr Exec
Posts: 26
MR Lawsuite against retroactive changes in the program
Such a lawsuite could win IMHO but I am not a lawyer.
I am sure you will find a law firm to take on Marriott on this! Why don't you create a new thread and give it proper title such as Lawsuites against MR changes in program - need lawyers etc.?
MR can try and as long as you do not take action and go by all the exceltions, they win. But a judge and jurey can turn that around since it represents a value that Marriott has already taken and now offers to give less for it than at the time they have received the payment. Hence this deal cannot hold.
Let the judge and jurey send a clear message to all those corporates trying to bait and switch the customers - even if they are big ones (or especially if they are such?)
Marriott Conceirage - any thoughts about this? :-)
TL
Oct 27, 2008 | 5:15 pm
#276
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 5
Why doesn't someone file suit against all these programs? I am sick and tired of having points/miles devalued. My logic: vendors either sell product (rooms, plane seats) or miles (via ccard affinity programs). In the first instance, they promise consumers heavenly rewards for using their brands. Consumer relies on promise, spends money, gets nominal reward (points/miles), but the reward is retroactively devalued. In the second instance, airlines collect hundreds of millions of $ from likes of AMEX by selling FF miles. Airlines grab the cash and recognize a future liability based on redemption value of the sold miles. Except that they never "pay" out the redemption value -- they devalue the miles! When will we, the oppressed, band together and file a class action suit to stop this? Courts have ruled in divorce proceedings that miles/points are property rights. Given that airlines are administrators of this property, they probably have some type of fiduciary duty to protect the property (kind of like your bank has a duty to protect your money). Just think, your bank rewards you for keeping money in their institution by accruing interest in your account. What if they say, "Gee, we've gotten the benefit of the bargain, so we're going to give you a haircut: The 50 bucks in interest accrued in your account is now going to be called 50 cents." Well, clearly that would be fraud, unfair & deceptive business practice, theft by failing to make required disposition of property, etc etc. But in the airline business and now in the hotel business, it seems like business as usual.
I know they have a bunch of disclaimers about program changes, but these have to apply prospectively, not retroactively. How can they take 300,000 of my points and with a wave of the wand make them 30,000 equivalent? Make future point accruals dilutive, but not existing points. I don't even think this is necessarily the best place for this post, but this has just hit a raw nerve with me. My wife has been traveling this year overseas every month and one of the things that makes her absences tolerable is the rewards we redeem as a family. Well all that just gets blown away with wholesale devaluations like this and time has come for someone to seek redress. Any class action lawyers out there -- I will volunteer to be a lead plaintiff!
I know they have a bunch of disclaimers about program changes, but these have to apply prospectively, not retroactively. How can they take 300,000 of my points and with a wave of the wand make them 30,000 equivalent? Make future point accruals dilutive, but not existing points. I don't even think this is necessarily the best place for this post, but this has just hit a raw nerve with me. My wife has been traveling this year overseas every month and one of the things that makes her absences tolerable is the rewards we redeem as a family. Well all that just gets blown away with wholesale devaluations like this and time has come for someone to seek redress. Any class action lawyers out there -- I will volunteer to be a lead plaintiff!
You are right when you sign the dotted line to purchase they guarantee a certain amount of points but now our property is worth 210,000 points for a week vs 150,000 if they would value our trade out in points at a higher rate I would not be so PO'd
Oct 27, 2008 | 6:54 pm
#277
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: NY, NY USA
Programs: Marriott Platinum, Continental Gold, American Airlines Platinum, Hertz Gold
Posts: 22
Hi all - I found this link thanks to a link on Marriott's Elite Member forum. I have a well known travel reporter who is willing to dig in and do an independant review of Marriott's changes - but he needs someone who will go on record with him and make statements. If anyone is interested, please email [email protected] - I'd like to put you in touch. Also, for those of you who are not able to access the elite website, I've posted some response from Marriott and a recap of some misleading issues at: http://sites.google.com/site/makemarriottlisten/Home - Please visit and send any comments. It's nowhere near as well organized as flyertalk, but it helps spread a bit of truth about Marriott's intentions and treatment of customers. I'm mostly focused on the honesty behind the changes vs. Marriott's statements that these are not financial. Thanks for your help & standing up for members!
Last edited by makemarriottrewardslisten; Nov 7, 2008 at 1:55 pm
Oct 27, 2008 | 6:57 pm
#278
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: NY, NY USA
Programs: Marriott Platinum, Continental Gold, American Airlines Platinum, Hertz Gold
Posts: 22
Accidental Duplicate - please delete - didn't understand moderation delay.
Last edited by makemarriottrewardslisten; Oct 28, 2008 at 5:51 am Reason: Just learning
Oct 27, 2008 | 6:59 pm
#279
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: NY, NY USA
Programs: Marriott Platinum, Continental Gold, American Airlines Platinum, Hertz Gold
Posts: 22
One more try - just trying to call MR members attention to a site that is taking action. It actually redirects users back to flyertalk. http://sites.google.com/site/makemarriottlisten
Last edited by makemarriottrewardslisten; Nov 7, 2008 at 1:55 pm
Oct 27, 2008 | 7:01 pm
#280
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: NY, NY USA
Programs: Marriott Platinum, Continental Gold, American Airlines Platinum, Hertz Gold
Posts: 22
Ahh... Perhaps it is because I included an outside link? Just add the http:// in front of the following.
sites.google.com/site/makemarriottlisten/Home
I'm trying to share this site with the community here because MR members are finding a way to be heard. Many of you might find the ideas interesting - especially talking to a reporter.
sites.google.com/site/makemarriottlisten/Home
I'm trying to share this site with the community here because MR members are finding a way to be heard. Many of you might find the ideas interesting - especially talking to a reporter.
Oct 27, 2008 | 8:00 pm
#281
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,338
This is sickening. I gave all my business this year to make Platinum and now corporate does this?? Really? This is an enhancement?
Thank god, I burned half my mileage earned this year already. I am going to let my Marriott status lapse as there is no reason for me to stay with them if my future points are going to be significantly less in the near future. I was even considering getting the Marriott CC, but you can kiss that CC application goodbye now.
BOOOOOOO Marriott BOOO!!!
Thank god, I burned half my mileage earned this year already. I am going to let my Marriott status lapse as there is no reason for me to stay with them if my future points are going to be significantly less in the near future. I was even considering getting the Marriott CC, but you can kiss that CC application goodbye now.
BOOOOOOO Marriott BOOO!!!
Oct 27, 2008 | 8:32 pm
#282
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: NY, NY USA
Programs: Marriott Platinum, Continental Gold, American Airlines Platinum, Hertz Gold
Posts: 22
Talk to a Reporter? A well known travel reporter is waiting to do a story - but he needs direct contact with a Marriott member who can speak to the issues and grievances.
One more try - Actions to Make Marriott Listen Here
Wow - this one appears to be sticking! Anyway, the link contains information and ideas on how to get Marriott's attention. Viewers are re-directed back here to flyertalk for conversation. Responses from the Marriott Elite Site are also included for anyone who cannot go to the "Insiders"
One more try - Actions to Make Marriott Listen Here
Wow - this one appears to be sticking! Anyway, the link contains information and ideas on how to get Marriott's attention. Viewers are re-directed back here to flyertalk for conversation. Responses from the Marriott Elite Site are also included for anyone who cannot go to the "Insiders"
Last edited by makemarriottrewardslisten; Nov 7, 2008 at 1:55 pm Reason: Add Detail
Oct 28, 2008 | 1:22 am
#283
Join Date: Feb 2005
Programs: Marriott Lifetime Titanium (former PP), Hilton Silver, UA Silver, AS Member, Hertz 5*
Posts: 3,906
If there is no change, I would like Marriott to list which properties are allowed blackout dates. It should be apparent that many elite travelers are not pleased with the upcoming changes, and Marriott would benefit from greater transparency.
Oct 28, 2008 | 5:06 am
#284
Used to be bulldoggolfer05
Join Date: May 2007
Location: So Paulo, BR/Miami Beach, FL/NYC/DXB
Programs: HGP DMD, HHonors DMD, SPG PLT, MR PLT
Posts: 2,295
In regards to all of this hooplah about suing Marriott and whatnot, I am pretty sure that in the T&C of the program that Marriott states they have the right to amend and/or cancel the program at any time per their discretion...
Oct 28, 2008 | 6:16 am
#285
Join Date: Oct 2008
Programs: Marriott
Posts: 1
Points Question
Ira, On pointsaver options, if they are still 33% off standard rates, would the fact that rates have increased about 40% make pointsavers about equal to current points? Also if category rates are determined by point usage, would it be safe to assume since we will now be able to get the better hotels when we want,they will raise in category? Example, if Courtyard Times Square redeems a much larger percentage of points next year due to new program, will they raise in category?