Apr 10, 2018, 6:28 am
Last edit by: MSPeconomist
In addition to the OP, see posts 70 and 121 for "information". Also, see post 1402 in the sticky merger thread in the Starwood forum which summarizes the information posted by OMAAT. [VFTW also had a similar discussion yesterday.]
Post 434 has a summary of qualification requirements for Marriott LTP in various periods.
Post 434 has a summary of qualification requirements for Marriott LTP in various periods.
Leaked New Combined Marriott / SPG Status Tiers
Apr 10, 2018, 7:38 pm
#346
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: DFW from PDX - UA 1K 2MM,Lifetime HHonnors Diamond, Bonvoy AMB/LT Tit, National Exec Elite, Hertz PC
Posts: 554
Westin Lounges
Which ones specifically? Guessing you haven't been to the Westins in Chicago, the Dallas Galleria, etc. I can't remember the last time I went to a Westin and didn't see Starbucks as the brand standard. I call BS on Folgers specifically.
Again, outside the M Clubs, it's not like one is getting amazing meals at most Marriott lounges...
Again, outside the M Clubs, it's not like one is getting amazing meals at most Marriott lounges...
Each to their own opinion.
Apr 10, 2018, 7:44 pm
#347
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: SLC/HEL/Anywhere with a Beach
Programs: Marriott Ambassador; AA EXP 3MM; AS MVP, Hilton Gold, CH-47/UH-60/C-23/C-130 VET
Posts: 5,234
Which ones specifically? Guessing you haven't been to the Westins in Chicago, the Dallas Galleria, etc. I can't remember the last time I went to a Westin and didn't see Starbucks as the brand standard. I call BS on Folgers specifically.
Again, outside the M Clubs, it's not like one is getting amazing meals at most Marriott lounges...
Again, outside the M Clubs, it's not like one is getting amazing meals at most Marriott lounges...
Westin LAX Airport -- no protein at breakfast and Seattle's Best coffee. A Starbucks owned brand but largely using the same Vietnamese coffee beans used by Folgers and Maxwell House.
Apr 10, 2018, 9:05 pm
#348
Join Date: May 2009
Location: South Park, CO
Programs: Tegridy Elite
Posts: 5,678
Perhaps ... but basing decisions to drain accounts based on fear that Marriott will announce the immediate end of points transfer to airlines on Monday seems irrational. And I suspect that's not a great transfer ratio anyway.
That being said if everyone but me drains their Marriott/SPG accounts tonight and I'm the only one left with points, I'm OK with that
That being said if everyone but me drains their Marriott/SPG accounts tonight and I'm the only one left with points, I'm OK with that
Apr 10, 2018, 9:17 pm
#349
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Stilllwater OK (SWO)
Programs: AAdvantage ExecPlat, World of Hyatt Globalist, plain "member" of Marriott, IHG, enterprise, etc.
Posts: 1,848
I think only this is certain: The will be losers and there will be big losers. And more than half will fall into the latter. Marriott was minting elites like candy over the last 10 years and eliminated its biggest quality (rewards) competitor while overpaying for Starwood. Why would there be any winners?
Apr 10, 2018, 9:17 pm
#350
Join Date: Feb 2018
Programs: Bonvoy :Ambassador , ALL :Diamond, Skywards :Silver, Krisflyer :Silver
Posts: 2,808
I'm maintaining a healthy skepticism about these rumors. However, IMO it would be colossally stupid of MR to set the benefits for their 50-74 night customers at: no lounge access, minimal upgrades, and mediocre breakfast. If MR adds a spend requirement on top of this they'll really be shooting themselves in the foot. The reason being that these same benefits can be had through Hilton simply by owning their Aspire Credit Card for $95 annually with no stays, nights, or spend required.
When the loyalty program failed to give meaningful benefit for the given effort, not surprising if the members leave the program altogether
Starriott is the largest hotel chain currently, but then again, even small chain can become their competitor for certain individual depends on their travel pattern
If a member travel mostly to Asian countries, even GHA can be viable alternative
Apr 10, 2018, 9:33 pm
#351
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 6,385
The most logical place for them to start counting stays and nights under the new elite scheme would be Jan 1, 2019. Any of this Aug nonsense and this whole mess will grow even more. I wouldn't be surprised if they announced more about the value and conversion of points next week with the new unveiling of the program later this year.
Apr 10, 2018, 11:46 pm
#352
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Minneapolis: DL DM charter 2.3MM
Programs: A3*Gold, SPG Plat, HyattDiamond, MarriottPP, LHW exAccess, ICI, Raffles Amb, NW PE MM, TWA Gold MM
Posts: 100,413
Basically, Marriott/SPG are driving the entire product to a pure commodity state. It's a bed, toilet, and shower. Do not expect anything more. There will be a transactional program with some rewards to effectively lower your cost, but ultimately the decision is pretty simply going to be one of price. Is Marriott 5% cheaper than Hilton after I take into account the simple Southwest-style rebate? Are these brands cheaper than Airbnb, Booking.com, VRBO, etc. for my leisure stays? Who has the cheapest functionally acceptable hotel for my business stays?
Starwood did an effective job of making me consider loyalty, human interactions, relationships, and soft product in addition to just the firmness of the bed and the quality of the toilet paper. The SPG program caused me to pay extra to stay at Starwood. In this new model, I'll just stay wherever is cheapest for my basic stays. If I want a true luxury experience, I'll seek out a property that has *no* program - or a very limited in-house one.
I guess this is where the industry wants to go. Hilton did it. Marriott and Starwood are doing it. They're just renting beds and toilets, and I guess they might as well drive as much uniqueness and human interaction out of that as possible.
Starwood did an effective job of making me consider loyalty, human interactions, relationships, and soft product in addition to just the firmness of the bed and the quality of the toilet paper. The SPG program caused me to pay extra to stay at Starwood. In this new model, I'll just stay wherever is cheapest for my basic stays. If I want a true luxury experience, I'll seek out a property that has *no* program - or a very limited in-house one.
I guess this is where the industry wants to go. Hilton did it. Marriott and Starwood are doing it. They're just renting beds and toilets, and I guess they might as well drive as much uniqueness and human interaction out of that as possible.
What they don't seem to be considering is that the presence of a good loyalty program makes demand from elites much less price elastic and therefore leads to a good bit or power to raise prices (and profits). Otherwise, potential customers are much more likely to simply shop for the lowest price rather than decide in favor of the product which is differentiated by its loyalty program.
For me, I'm likely to revert to staying at interesting boutique hotels where possible and for higher end stays, using FHR more, including as a basis for choosing the hotel. I'll use my lifetime status (whatever it's worth) when I need an airport hotel, such as the DTW Westin and Sheratons at CDG/AMS/FRA, and possibly consider returning to places I've stayed frequently and hope that they continue to treat me well even if the program no longer requires it.
For me, I'm likely to revert to staying at interesting boutique hotels where possible and for higher end stays, using FHR more, including as a basis for choosing the hotel. I'll use my lifetime status (whatever it's worth) when I need an airport hotel, such as the DTW Westin and Sheratons at CDG/AMS/FRA, and possibly consider returning to places I've stayed frequently and hope that they continue to treat me well even if the program no longer requires it.
Apr 11, 2018, 12:28 am
#353
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: India
Programs: Bonvoy Lifetime Titanium, IHG Plat, HH Gold, Trident Plat, DL Diamond, AI Maharajah
Posts: 29,678
I'll put my marketing and P.R. hat on for a moment. I could see some consultant convincing someone at Marriott to leak all this, then hold an event unveiling a program that doesn't contain any of the purported bad aspects that have been rumored. Marriott can then claim it has listened and continued to listen to its clientele. It's a win-win. And from a P.R. standpoint, Marriott is dominating the blogs and what not the last 24 hours.
Apr 11, 2018, 12:29 am
#354
Join Date: Feb 2018
Programs: Bonvoy :Ambassador , ALL :Diamond, Skywards :Silver, Krisflyer :Silver
Posts: 2,808
In terms of hotel competition, chains footprint does help only up to a certain extent
added with loyalty tiers requirements
if a chain set requirements too high or too difficult then customers can easily choose different hotel.
If say marriott set platinum at 300 nights and golds 200 nights, luxury hotel customers can simply switch to different brands like aman resort or banyan tree or even sofitels as they wont receive elite benefit anyway if stay at marriott brands
added with loyalty tiers requirements
if a chain set requirements too high or too difficult then customers can easily choose different hotel.
If say marriott set platinum at 300 nights and golds 200 nights, luxury hotel customers can simply switch to different brands like aman resort or banyan tree or even sofitels as they wont receive elite benefit anyway if stay at marriott brands
Apr 11, 2018, 1:42 am
#355
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Dallas
Programs: AA LTPlat, Marriott LTTitanium, IHG Spire, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 44
I'm LT Plat with 900 nights at Starwood and just gave up status in all other hotel programs. If Marriott removes my lounge access, then I'm off to the best value at any hotel I can find and will use Airbnb whenever possible. Should a hotel have a particularly renowned lounge, then I will just pay for lounge access or the required room. The days of loyalty are over with me for hotels and airlines.
Apr 11, 2018, 2:11 am
#356
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Thailand
Programs: Marriott LT Titanium; IHG Diamond Ambassador
Posts: 1,150
Apr 11, 2018, 3:03 am
#357
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Singapore
Programs: DL Million Miler, Marriott Lifetime Titanium, Singapore Airlines Gold and a bunch of others
Posts: 127
So, I have been reading all of this post as I have be stuck at the airport and I have a few comments:
- If the merge Lifetime status and combines nights, they will probably not be able to use points as part of the basis as I remember reading 2 years ago the SPG had no way of calculating points:
- It makes no sense to Kill the lifetime program as people fall into 3 categories
- Lifetime members that still travel a lot, so the cost is irrelevant as they earn their current status each year.
- Lifetime members that no longer earn the status, in this case they are not traveling as much, so the cost is low
- Not yet lifetime members who will see what happens and if the program is gutted or killed will have less incentive to stay
- This is the group Marriott wants to keep
- The whole reason Marriott bought Starwood was to grow their Asian footprint
- as a result killing the loyalty of the best Asian customers is not a logical business move.
- the changes to the program are needed to align all three into a single solution and figure out how to grow your business
- There will be some losers and winners, this will depend on your travel (full service, mid-level, domestic, Europe, Asian) and desires (lounge access, quality lounge access, upgrades, Full breakfast,...) people talk about losers and big losers, this is not logical, if every customer lost, then Marriott would lose more in revenue then they would want. That said, there will be people that are getting more benefits then they are worth (to Marriott) today that will lose and others that are not getting enough benefits, based on what they are worth.
- So Far Marriott has been taking the acquisition and merger slow and carefully (much better the the airlines), Not all of the changes have been perfect, but, most have been on average net positive to the vast majority (easily transfer points, reciprocity of status), till they announce on Monday, it is illogical to assume it is all terrible (just like it is illogical to assume it is all good)
- Every time there is a rumor of a change (airlines, hotels,...) people say they will leave if they don't get their favorite perk, but, as we have seen over the last 25 years the membership numbers have gone up, yet some years benefits go up and other years benefits go down.
- This is a business relationship, so once it is announced we can each see how it affects us and then adjust, speculating now (with no hard evidence)is of no value.
Apr 11, 2018, 5:11 am
#358
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Homeless
Programs: Hyatt Glob; Hilton Dia; Marriott AMB; Accor Dia; IHG Dia Amb; GHA Tit
Posts: 4,838
From this thread, sounds like GHA is worthless?
GHA- Rewards Program - Is it totally worthless !!
On a serious note, which niche hotel programs would be worth considering for those who want to leave Marriott/Starwood (or not leave MR/Starwood completely, but move 30-50 nights to a new hotel chain), given that other global programs are also cutting benefits?
Apr 11, 2018, 5:26 am
#359
Join Date: Feb 2018
Programs: Bonvoy :Ambassador , ALL :Diamond, Skywards :Silver, Krisflyer :Silver
Posts: 2,808
So, I have been reading all of this post as I have be stuck at the airport and I have a few comments:
- If the merge Lifetime status and combines nights, they will probably not be able to use points as part of the basis as I remember reading 2 years ago the SPG had no way of calculating points:
- It makes no sense to Kill the lifetime program as people fall into 3 categories
- Lifetime members that still travel a lot, so the cost is irrelevant as they earn their current status each year.
- Lifetime members that no longer earn the status, in this case they are not traveling as much, so the cost is low
- Not yet lifetime members who will see what happens and if the program is gutted or killed will have less incentive to stay
- This is the group Marriott wants to keep
- The whole reason Marriott bought Starwood was to grow their Asian footprint
- as a result killing the loyalty of the best Asian customers is not a logical business move.
- the changes to the program are needed to align all three into a single solution and figure out how to grow your business
- There will be some losers and winners, this will depend on your travel (full service, mid-level, domestic, Europe, Asian) and desires (lounge access, quality lounge access, upgrades, Full breakfast,...) people talk about losers and big losers, this is not logical, if every customer lost, then Marriott would lose more in revenue then they would want. That said, there will be people that are getting more benefits then they are worth (to Marriott) today that will lose and others that are not getting enough benefits, based on what they are worth.
- So Far Marriott has been taking the acquisition and merger slow and carefully (much better the the airlines), Not all of the changes have been perfect, but, most have been on average net positive to the vast majority (easily transfer points, reciprocity of status), till they announce on Monday, it is illogical to assume it is all terrible (just like it is illogical to assume it is all good)
- Every time there is a rumor of a change (airlines, hotels,...) people say they will leave if they don't get their favorite perk, but, as we have seen over the last 25 years the membership numbers have gone up, yet some years benefits go up and other years benefits go down.
- This is a business relationship, so once it is announced we can each see how it affects us and then adjust, speculating now (with no hard evidence)is of no value.
They dont have to count the nights or total spending ... make everything simpler
There will be some MR LT members that will be unhappy as they acquire their LT with higher requirements but it really save the headache
2. Agree ... the non LT members that want LT status will be more willing to go the "extra night" as long as the benefit is worth the effort
if the perks is not attractive enough, these people can just go somewhere else
3. Interestingly, Asian based memebers (and EU based and AUNZ based ones) dont have extra benefit from co branded credit card yet
Hopefully this can be addressed
4. Everyone travel pattern is different, so its impossible to appease everyone.
but then Starriott have more room to sell now (legacy Marriott and Legacy SPG combined) they will need to generate more sales.
easiest way is to retain the loyal members of both SPG and MR as they already familiar with their previous hotel
And I'm pretty sure some SPG members will try the Marriott hotels as now they can get credit form the stay and vice versa
Personally I would like to try some of the Marriott brands once the programs combined
Apr 11, 2018, 5:34 am
#360
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: PHL
Programs: AA EXP MM, HHonors Lifetime Diamond, Marriott Lifetime Ti, UA Silver
Posts: 5,037
Hilton Golds do NOT get guaranteed lounge access. They only get lounge access if they are in a lounge floor room or a room that is otherwise granted lounge access. In practice, I would think that this is would be the exception rather than the rule. Only Hilton Diamonds get guranteed access.